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When did vacuum braking & steam heating cease on B.R.
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No doubt somebody else will have the precise dates of the actual final trains, but both were phased out during the 70s. The Mark 2s covered this transition period, braking systems being a bit more mixed but heating was electric only from the Mark 2D (1971-72 built). Obviously trains continued to run with steam heat for a while after the last steam heat vehicles were built. The Mark 3s were all-air and all-electric heat from new (1975 construction).
I'd hazard a guess that the last conversions were in the late 70s, with Vacuum braking and Steam Heating having gone by 1980 but will need final confirmation from more knowledgeable members. Interestingly, codes for vacuum/dual-braked stock are still in the railway planning systems data and TOPS loco records include a field for the water capacity of the heating boiler, so they were both still around when computers started taking over in the 70s.
Vacuum Braking is technically still in use for some Charters, although I don't think any main line runs use steam heating (not impossible for the Santa runs though).
I'd hazard a guess that the last conversions were in the late 70s, with Vacuum braking and Steam Heating having gone by 1980 but will need final confirmation from more knowledgeable members. Interestingly, codes for vacuum/dual-braked stock are still in the railway planning systems data and TOPS loco records include a field for the water capacity of the heating boiler, so they were both still around when computers started taking over in the 70s.
Vacuum Braking is technically still in use for some Charters, although I don't think any main line runs use steam heating (not impossible for the Santa runs though).
Lemmy99uk
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Vacuum brakes and steam heat were still going strong well into the 1980s.
I remember working the Birmingham/Norwich services hauled by class 31s at least until 1982.
I remember working the Birmingham/Norwich services hauled by class 31s at least until 1982.
There are diesel-hauled and electric-hauied vacuum braked trains in much more recent working timetables than the dates above, for example May-September 1992 5B03 MX D105 Birmingham New Street-Northampton via Bletchley, 5B90 05:54 Birmingham New Street-Bletchley. Not many VB trains, but still some.
1M64 17:14 Mail Tonbridge-Crewe VB E455
1G49 21:45 Mail Northampton-Birmingham New Street VB D105 I think was formed of some coaches from 1M64 split off at Northampton.
1M64 17:14 Mail Tonbridge-Crewe VB E455
1G49 21:45 Mail Northampton-Birmingham New Street VB D105 I think was formed of some coaches from 1M64 split off at Northampton.
The last steam heat was in Scotland. The West Highland, Far North, Kyle, Inverness-Aberdeen and Edinburgh-Dundee services were still mostly steam heat at start of winter 1985-86. The arrival of the class 37/4s that winter then finished steam heat off quite quickly, though there were a few workings in 1986-87.
Norwich-Birmingham went ETH in October 1982. There was booked steam heat in East Anglia up to May 1984 and a few workings in the 1984-85 winter.
Loco hauled to Kings Lynn finished in May 1990 and used vacuum braked stock right to the end. I think the stock was then cascaded onto Paddington-Oxford commuter trains.
hexagon789
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The last steam heated service train was a Footex in Scotland in October 1987, if memory serves correctly.
The last vacuum braked train would be Chiltern's Bubble Cars.
Or, immediately before that the 101s operating in the Manchester area into 2004.
The last vacuum braked train would be Chiltern's Bubble Cars.
Or, immediately before that the 101s operating in the Manchester area into 2004.
Yes, Thames Line loco hauled in July 1992 was the end of vacuum braked hauled stock. However, vacuum braked multiple units went on for longer.
I commuted between Twyford and Paddington in 1983-85 and on one evening early in 1984 I was very surprised to see the rake of Mk1s on my train home steaming merrily away with a 47/0 on the front. It was the only time I ever had steam heat during those years.
xotGD
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Dundee to Glasgow return footex. Rangers fans, IIRC.
D365
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Indeed - the introduction of 37/4s was going to be my nomination for steam -> electric changeover.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
First North Western used vacuum braked class 101 DMUs on service trains until December 2003. Towards the end, I recall travelling on L840, still in NSE livery and carrying its Reading number, on a Holyhead to Crewe express. It approached Colwyn Bay at 70 mph. I wasn't sure if it was due to stop. Then the driver's hand reached out and pulled the brake handle most of the way round. The train screeched to a halt right next to the footbridge.
Arriva Trains Wales and Chiltern Railways both used class 121 DMUs on a limited basis, the latter lasted until May 2017.
Research suggests that the date was 21/03/87 and that the loco was 47109. There are pictures on flickr including this one:
I'm not aware of any steam heat workings after the end of the 1986/87 winter.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I had a look at my notes I made, I'll need to do some research to find the source, but I have the last steam heat as - 47117, GLQ-ABD & rtn Footex, Oct. 1987Research suggests that the date was 21/03/87 and that the loco was 47109. There are pictures on flickr including this one:
I'm not aware of any steam heat workings after the end of the 1986/87 winter.
Thanks. Rail Gen Archive has 47117 working a Glasgow-Aberdeen footex on 02/05/87, could that be the one?
It is much harder to find 1987 pictures of 47117 without being swamped by preservation pictures.
As a regular user of sleepers in the early 1980s, IIRC all Mark 1 sleepers were dual heated, with steam being used routinely in Scotland. This only changed when the Mark 3 sleepers replaced the Mark 1s around 1983.
CarltonA
Member
The Network Expresses were operated with class 50/47 locos and mostly Mk I and some Mk II (older ones I think with orange plastic panels in the vestibules), presumably they were worked with vacuum braking at some point? I am not sure exactly when these NE runs ended but some good displays of braking sparks (from Mk1s) were to be seen if you happened to be on another train simultaneously approaching Paddington.
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The two seem related, but are not particularly. Electric heat of hauled stock came earlier, the WCML electrification from 1960 required it, and it was reasonably straightforward to provide dual heating on Mk 1 stock; most of the production of this after the late 1950s was dual, along with Mk 2, until as said above the AC Mk 2d came along in 1971. However, ETH loco provision lagged behind, it wasn't really until steam locos finished that there was significant movement on refitting diesels, which carried on in dribs and drabs into the 1980s. The Southern Region was different, their Class 33 were ETH only, and they did away with steam heat alongside their end of steam locos in 1967, refitting all their Mk 1 stock. I seem to recall it was charter and excursion sets into the mid-1980s, earlier Mk 1 stock, that were the last. Of course, much of the work for this stock was in summertime, when no heating was given at all. Passenger stock was fitted with steam heaters; vans were normally not, but many had through pipes underneath so they could be at the head of a passenger train and the heat passed through.
Air brake was different, it's not too practical to have dual braked coaches, with two lots of brake cylinders etc underneath and the challenge of getting the brake type opposite to the locomotive released. There were a few - Carstairs for long had a dual brake, dual heat, B4-bogie, Mk 1 BCK, one of everything, that sat in a siding there alongside the WCML and could be used to substitute for whatever might have failed, or was missing when trains divided there. A unique conversion by St Rollox works I believe. There was no air brake hauled stock until the Mk 2a came along in 1967, and because it was broadly only standard passenger vehicles, various restaurant cars and BGs had to be converted. It was the end of being able to stick any old vans into the formation.
Steam heat was a right nuisance once all-steel passenger stock came along after WW2, the low pressure steam, venting through various valves and leaks, causing internal condensation, and rapid rusting of the steel bodies until the issue was understood and (mostly) overcome. The rusting of Mk 1 stock along the bottom of the bodysides (and visible repairs and patching here) was mainly an aspect of steam heating. ETH overcame this.
Air brake was different, it's not too practical to have dual braked coaches, with two lots of brake cylinders etc underneath and the challenge of getting the brake type opposite to the locomotive released. There were a few - Carstairs for long had a dual brake, dual heat, B4-bogie, Mk 1 BCK, one of everything, that sat in a siding there alongside the WCML and could be used to substitute for whatever might have failed, or was missing when trains divided there. A unique conversion by St Rollox works I believe. There was no air brake hauled stock until the Mk 2a came along in 1967, and because it was broadly only standard passenger vehicles, various restaurant cars and BGs had to be converted. It was the end of being able to stick any old vans into the formation.
Steam heat was a right nuisance once all-steel passenger stock came along after WW2, the low pressure steam, venting through various valves and leaks, causing internal condensation, and rapid rusting of the steel bodies until the issue was understood and (mostly) overcome. The rusting of Mk 1 stock along the bottom of the bodysides (and visible repairs and patching here) was mainly an aspect of steam heating. ETH overcame this.
edwin_m
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If I remember rightly, the orange panels were a later variant of Mk2. The original ones (aka Mk2z by some) had wooden paneling in the vestibules, and were the only vacuum-braked Mk2 vehicles. Also Class 50 was air brake only. So I believe the services you describe were air-braked, at least by the time you used them.
D6130
Established Member
According to Wikipedia they were dual-braked (air and vacuum). I distinctly remember them in the days of my mis-spent youth working vacuum-braked overnight trains between Crewe and Glasgow/Perth and occasionally through to Inverness (Perth drivers signed them back in the day). They also worked vacuum-braked day and night services between Crewe/Preston and Barrow, following the withdrawal of the MetroVick Co-Bo class 28s.
The Waterloo Exeter rakes which went on longer were air braked, but class 50s were dual braked. If the class 50s weren't, they wouldn't currently be much use on preserved railways.
NSE loco hauled trains at Paddington were vacuum braked right up until the end on 6 July 1992 (as were the Northampton and Cambridge / Kings Lynn services which finished earlier and stock for which migrated to the Thames operation for the final years).
Waterloo to Exeter was air braked throughout the NSE years as they had the later built Mark 2A/2B stock.
NSE loco hauled trains at Paddington were vacuum braked right up until the end on 6 July 1992 (as were the Northampton and Cambridge / Kings Lynn services which finished earlier and stock for which migrated to the Thames operation for the final years).
Waterloo to Exeter was air braked throughout the NSE years as they had the later built Mark 2A/2B stock.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
That appears to be it. Not sure where October came from!
Were there not some vacuum braked private owner wagons on the network quite late. Blyth - Ft William maybe. Long, long after passenger trains.
What were the first locos with no vacuum brakes. Cl87? or Cl56? or was there one before that?
What were the first locos with no vacuum brakes. Cl87? or Cl56? or was there one before that?
43096
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Class 50 was dual braked from new. BR’s first air-brake only locos were the two prototype HST power cars, followed by Class 87.
edwin_m
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Apologies, must have been thinking they were the first without vacuum when they were the last with. Class 87 and anything built later was air only.
That's correct. But NSE refurbished vacuum braked MarkII vehicles for the Kings Lynn line (possibly done at Eastleigh?) which lost the wood panelling and the comfy seats. Their most recognisable interior feature after refurbishment was the Eddie Pond murals on the otherwise dull grey bulkheads.
I did further commuting between Twyford and Paddington in the late 80's/early 90's and I'm sure I can remember Class 50s on rakes which included Mk1s. As I spent quite a lot of time standing in vestibules I can also remember the orange panels on earlier Mk2s which often had some fading but I also remember some with dark green panelling. Also, as an aside, I can remember at least 4 occasions when there was Class 31/4 haulage - 2 single-headed and 2 double-headed, obviously to replace non-availability of regular locos.
Wilts Wanderer
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There were certainly Mk 1 and Mk 2 vehicles in the Thames Valley fleet. Towards the end, there seem to have been some all-Mk1 rakes (presumably vac-only) and some mixed rakes (possibly air/dual-braked sets?)
My 1990 Station Working Book for London Paddington certainly lists some trains as vacuum, and some trains specifically as air-braked stock.
87015
Established Member
Most of the NSE Mk1s were dual/air-braked in the mid 80s refurb - hence many then ended up in the Charter Train unit afterwards .
One that we have missed is that Modernisation Plan dmus were vacuum braked, and thus the last vacuum service on the system was when Chiltern withdrew their Bubble Car, which was I think 2017.
It's an interesting discussion why dmus were all vacuum braked, whereas emus were long air brake only.
It's an interesting discussion why dmus were all vacuum braked, whereas emus were long air brake only.
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