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TPE Mk5/68 sets.

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IslandLine101

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Wondering if anyone had any news as to why these have all gone into hiding at the moment. Of 6 TP north diagrams they are currently averaging 0. Can’t be crew training anymore surely? Anyway yeah interested to know what is going on if anyone has any news.

And of course god knows how long it has been since one last emerged in service on a Cleethorpes turn.
 
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DanNCL

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None in service today at all. Not a surprise with TPE being incapable of running anything remotely resembling a reliable service!
 

Geeves

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It was probably the correct decision (to park them up) judging by the regular chaos on top of the weather chaos that will likely carry on into tomorrow
 

IslandLine101

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Yeah it’s not a one off though. Been no more than 1 set in traffic for the last two weeks, with multiple days with zero sets out
 

DanNCL

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It was probably the correct decision (to park them up) judging by the regular chaos on top of the weather chaos that will likely carry on into tomorrow
The 91s, which are known for being poor performers in the snow, haven’t been pulled by LNER and (famous last words!) haven’t had any in service failures during this cold snap.

It’s pretty clear why TPE aren’t using the 68s and it isn’t because of the snow.
 

87015

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The north sets are hardly out because the latest TPE masterstroke is to make most of the diagrams be covered somewhere in the day by drivers in the 185-only link from York, who don’t even start - on paper - 68 training for another few weeks.
 
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humbersidejim

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The 91s, which are known for being poor performers in the snow, haven’t been pulled by LNER and (famous last words!) haven’t had any in service failures during this cold snap.

It’s pretty clear why TPE aren’t using the 68s and it isn’t because of the snow.
I understood lack of crew training was an issue - but is there something fundamentally wrong with the trains themselves?
 

IslandLine101

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The north sets are hardly out because the latest TPE masterstroke is to make most of the diagrams be covered somewhere in the day by drivers in the 185-only link from York, who don’t even start - on paper - 68 training for another few weeks.
Very interesting - thanks. I thought there must be a reason like this. At this rate they are going to have other crew competence lapse before the can get them reliably operating again, and have to start over again!
 

HamworthyGoods

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Very interesting - thanks. I thought there must be a reason like this. At this rate they are going to have other crew competence lapse before the can get them reliably operating again, and have to start over again!

Or they just don’t start over again with this fleet and move on…
 

humbersidejim

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Just to add: there’s been a rake sat at Gascgoine wood for a number of weeks now. It’s powered.

It’s incredible just how much time these mk5s have spent sitting around since construction. It must be one of the lowest utilised fleets, currently.
 

Geeves

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There's been a couple of movements today, one set to Lime St and one from Neville Hill to Longsight, something anyway.

Edit 68020 and stock are out on the 1U83 1954 off Liverpool LS to Scarborough tonight
 
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D6700

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Judging by a number of posts in this thread, I think there's an over-reliance on RTT for assuming what is or isn't working. Over the last few months, services operated with Class 68's often show no allocation, a situation not caused by RTT.

Largely due to TPE's kamikaze approach to crew knowledge and diagramming, the situation is indeed dire, but it isn't quite as bad as some of the claims, such as yesterday's "None in service today at all" - which is simply untrue. 68019 worked plenty of passenger services that day.

@sjpowermac would be able to provide more detailed observations.
 

DanNCL

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Judging by a number of posts in this thread, I think there's an over-reliance on RTT for assuming what is or isn't working. Over the last few months, services operated with Class 68's often show no allocation, a situation not caused by RTT.

Largely due to TPE's kamikaze approach to crew knowledge and diagramming, the situation is indeed dire, but it isn't quite as bad as some of the claims, such as yesterday's "None in service today at all" - which is simply untrue. 68019 worked plenty of passenger services that day.

@sjpowermac would be able to provide more detailed observations.
I didn’t assume no sets were out because of no allocations, I worked it out on the basis that every possible service was, at the time I looked, either allocated a 185 or cancelled. The information was correct to the best of my knowledge at the time of posting. Not all of us have access to industry systems to see what’s really happening, we have to rely on what’s available to us.
 

D6700

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I didn’t assume no sets were out because of no allocations, I worked it out on the basis that every possible service was, at the time I looked, either allocated a 185 or cancelled. The information was correct to the best of my knowledge at the time of posting. Not all of us have access to industry systems to see what’s really happening, we have to rely on what’s available to us.
As the allocation problem stems from industry systems, they will often be of no more help than RTT - hence why RTT is missing the info.

I don't doubt that you posted in good faith, but nonetheless, what you said was untrue and required correcting as a point of record.

At the time of your posting, there had already been a number of Class 68 worked TPE services that day, as viewed by observers on the ground (industry systems not required) and there were more afterwards. Those specific services were not allocated at all on RTT early that morning - and still show as unallocated now, but must have shown as 185's for the brief moment you looked at them...
 

CE142

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The reason the there's a lack of 68s and Mark 5a sets out is due to the following....
Combination of First Group and the Dft.....

They have been crew training on the South Pennines for over 12 months now and the amount of services that have run between Cleethorpes and Liverpool Lime St. with a 68 and Mark 5a set in service? Well that would be just the one...:rolleyes:
<(
 

Confused52

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Between May 2022 and December there were slots allocated for the training which were mostly unused, i.e. cancelled round trips MCO to LIV. When they did get used it was 185s. I assume that the current training opportunity are the round trip ECS services from CLE to LIV and back which are cancelled every day. There is clearly something not right about this situation and there is a reason why the truth is not coming out. The industry players need to remember that this is a service to the public and as such it is a colossal failure. Eventually the truth will come out.
 

Bletchleyite

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Between May 2022 and December there were slots allocated for the training which were mostly unused, i.e. cancelled round trips MCO to LIV. When they did get used it was 185s. I assume that the current training opportunity are the round trip ECS services from CLE to LIV and back which are cancelled every day. There is clearly something not right about this situation and there is a reason why the truth is not coming out. The industry players need to remember that this is a service to the public and as such it is a colossal failure. Eventually the truth will come out.

I don't think the public care about 68s and Mk5s. They just want a reliable train service.
 

Confused52

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I don't think the public care about 68s and Mk5s. They just want a reliable train service.
So you know that the cancellation most days of the services that would have used the 68s/Mark5s and the short running or short forming on other TPE services on the CLC don't bother them. You couldn't be more wrong and you fail to want to get to the bottom of the reasons for the current shambles.
 

Bletchleyite

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So you know that the cancellation most days of the services that would have used the 68s/Mark5s and the short running or short forming on other TPE services on the CLC don't bother them. You couldn't be more wrong and you fail to want to get to the bottom of the reasons for the current shambles.

They don't have a stock shortage. There are enough 185s to run all the Mk5 services. They have a bigger stock surplus than any TOC in privatisation history.
 

Confused52

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They don't have a stock shortage. There are enough 185s to run all the Mk5 services. They have a bigger stock surplus than any TOC in privatisation history.
So the reason for the short running, short forming and and cancellations on the South Pennine Route but affecting the CLC worst of all is what?. Please do not say TRU route learning since the stories about that suggest only short journeys on the rosters and the bit of the route that seems to get lopped off is Piccadilly to Liverpool via the CLC, about as far West of the TRU diversions as you can get.
 

Snow1964

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They don't have a stock shortage. There are enough 185s to run all the Mk5 services. They have a bigger stock surplus than any TOC in privatisation history.

The wonderful workings of the privatised railway.

...... meanwhile short forms and people left behind, due to lack of stock occurs in other parts of the country.

The DfT needs to get a grip and stop playing at allocations apparently frozen in aspic with spare trains unable to be reallocated.
 

MattRat

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So the reason for the short running, short forming and and cancellations on the South Pennine Route but affecting the CLC worst of all is what?. Please do not say TRU route learning since the stories about that suggest only short journeys on the rosters and the bit of the route that seems to get lopped off is Piccadilly to Liverpool via the CLC, about as far West of the TRU diversions as you can get.
Lack of crew, because lack of end gangways on 185s, which requires two sets of crew.
 

Confused52

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Lack of crew, because lack of end gangways on 185s, which requires two sets of crew.
Doesn't explain the dominant short running stopping in the main shed at Piccadilly then going back East. There only needs to be a conductor in the back unit so it does not explain the short forming either if they really have enough 185s to cover the Mk5 routes. There are no crew using the ECS paths for route learning so they can't have any left to train so why not run the Mk5s. I am still not seeing cogent reasoning here.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Doesn't explain the dominant short running stopping in the main shed at Piccadilly then going back East. There only needs to be a conductor in the back unit so it does explain the short forming either if they really have enough 185s to cover the Mk5 routes. There are no crew using the ECS paths for route learning so they can't have any left to train so why not run the Mk5s. I am still not seeing cogent reasoning here.
The reason is the same reason it has stumbled from one crisis to another for the last 5 years. It is an absolute shambles of a company. There are multiple underlying issues and none of them ever seem to be addressed.
 
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