Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[JonathanH]

Not anywhere that more than 75mph is needed to slot between 100mph trains. The 777s are strictly metro in performance.

Given the 455s are 75mph units and the Windsor side doesn't go above 70mph, speed wouldn't be an issue.

 

[fgwrich]

So sounds like no service entry this year then!

Makes you wonder how the software is interacting with these test runs though. Having said that, 013 was out at the weekend and had an interesting way to get from Basingstoke to Southampton Central (seen on the scrolling LED desi screens):

Southampton Central via Micheldever, Winchester, Shawford, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport Parkway, Ashurst New Forest, Beaulie Road, Brockenhurst, Totton and Southampton Central.

Also, I see the double 5 car set are out and about on test again!

 

[Goldfish62]

Also, I see the double 5 car set are out and about on test again!

Saw them at Staines earlier this evening. Several bods sat in them looking at laptops.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Makes you wonder how the software is interacting with these test runs though. Having said that, 013 was out at the weekend and had an interesting way to get from Basingstoke to Southampton Central (seen on the scrolling LED desi screens):

Southampton Central via Micheldever, Winchester, Shawford, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport Parkway, Ashurst New Forest, Beaulie Road, Brockenhurst, Totton and Southampton Central.

Also, I see the double 5 car set are out and about on test again!

I must say... That's a really nice photo

A strangely large amount of life shown in such a simple picture...

 

[Goldfish62]

In the words of someone who is apparently close to someone high up in the chain of command for getting these units functional, the last software push allegedly "f*ckd everything up again!". I definitely can't imagine it's the latter given the pressure from senior management to get them into service.

When this was mentioned on a private Facebook group it was slapped down as not true, quite angrily by one person.

So the intrigue and no one definitive version of what's actually happening continues.

 

[Peter Sarf]

When this was mentioned on a private Facebook group it was slapped down as not true, quite angrily by one person.

So the intrigue and no one definitive version of what's actually happening continues.

Well actions (or lack of) will speak more than words. All we know is words are not reliable.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Another sighting at Clapham Junction.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Class 701 At Clapham Junction

 

[WizCastro197]

Another sighting at Clapham Junction.

Another 2 behind it as well, are they the same units as seen in the other photo?

 

[Fazaar1889]

Another 2 behind it as well, are they the same units as seen in the other photo?

Most likely. They seem to be in the same position

 

[XCTurbostar]

Are we any further forward with 701 roll outs or should we just look at them as a ‘Look at what you could have won’

 

[Bigfoot]

Are we any further forward with 701 roll outs or should we just look at them as a ‘Look at what you could have won’

If you read the thread you'll know nothing has changed.

 

[Snow1964]

If you read the thread you'll know nothing has changed.

The thread has been in the dark for last few weeks as to what and when is planned for next few weeks/months.

The recent entries can be summarised as a number of units moving to Marchwood for storage, and couple of 5car units doing some test workings, and Rock Rail has 280 of 750 (37%) vehicles.

There doesn't appear to be any urgency to use 701s, and SWR seem to be happily spending money overhauling some 455s instead.

 

[nlogax]

There doesn't appear to be any urgency to use 701s, and SWR seem to be happily spending money overhauling some 455s instead.

I do wonder how much longer can 455s be kept on the rails. Those ex-508 TSOs are some of oldest stock on the network, and presumably some of the most intensively used.

 

[Fazaar1889]

SWR Class 701 On Test Compilation - February 2023​

Little compilation I found

 

[Snow1964]

I do wonder how much longer can 455s be kept on the rails. Those ex-508 TSOs are some of oldest stock on the network, and presumably some of the most intensively used.

SWR is hiding the age of the 455s whilst 701s not in use

Class 455 | Our Trains | South Western Railway

www.southwesternrailway.com

Saying they have 91 units, and introduced 1987 is not 100% true (455s were from 1982, mainly 1983-85 for SWR units), there are no longer 91 units either.


Care seems to have been taken to remove any reference to class 701 start dates. Even the recent sustainability report says this about new trains (page 10)

To reduce emissions we will:
• Source renewable energy for our electrified train fleet
• Deliver a programme to replace our diesel trains with a lower carbon alternative

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/-/media/files/other/about-us/sustainability/full-plan-2022/journey-to-better-with-south-western-railway---full-plan---accessible.ashx

 

[norbitonflyer]

SWR is hiding the age of the 455s whilst 701s not in use
and introduced 1987 is not 100% true (455s were from 1982, mainly 1983-85 for SWR units),

It is 100% not true. None of them are that young - even the youngest 59xx units were already two years old in 1987, and the "508" trailers were eight years old.

 

[Invincible]

36 or 40 years old for the 455 and 456s? At least SWR have retired the 456s and have some kind of plan with the 701s to replace the 455s.

South Western’s £1bn fleet to go live for passenger services in 2023 | Rail Technology Magazine

The new £1bn fleet of trains in South Western Railway’s (SWR) roster will enter services in 2023, going live three years later th

www.railtechnologymagazine.com

"Some of the identified problems involve issues with the door obstacle detectors that have prevented the trains from being accepted for the driver training, as addressed by the union ASLEF. Numerous other issues have been reported such as the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers and cab doors that presented resistance when trying to open."
Presumably have been fixed at Eastleigh, and the remaining software issues are in the process of being fixed and tested on the mainline in the video Fazaar1889 found?
Frustrating SWR are not giving updates, and Alstom only gave an update (saying hardware issues have been fixed) to the BBC after a passenger had sent a FOI request to the DFT.

SWR will have to replace the diesel 158 and 159s before 2040, presumably by battery or hydrogen traction rather than line electrification.

 

[PG]

Saying they have 91 units, and introduced 1987 is not 100% true (455s were from 1982, mainly 1983-85 for SWR units), there are no longer 91 units either.

The page which you linked to uses the phrase:

Class 455 came into service in 1987

which differs from when they were actually built!
Further down the page the graphic of the coaches layout has a summary text alongside it which includes:

Year built 1982 - 1985

 

[SWT_USER]

The page which you linked to uses the phrase:

which differs from when they were actually built!
Further down the page the graphic of the coaches layout has a summary text alongside it which includes:

"These trains always run as a double set of 8 carriages..."

Is that true?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The page which you linked to uses the phrase:

Class 455 came into service in 1987

which differs from when they were actually built!
Further down the page the graphic of the coaches layout has a summary text alongside it which includes:

The 455s entered service way before 1987; I first rode on them in school holidays in 1983...


Edited: Just checked and I first saw 455s in service on 12th April 1983. Two pictures attached from that date at Clapham Junction.

I wonder if the SWR website refers to the date the last unit was commissioned into service?

 

[DelW]

South Western’s £1bn fleet to go live for passenger services in 2023 | Rail Technology Magazine

The new £1bn fleet of trains in South Western Railway’s (SWR) roster will enter services in 2023, going live three years later th

www.railtechnologymagazine.com

"Some of the identified problems involve issues with the door obstacle detectors that have prevented the trains from being accepted for the driver training, as addressed by the union ASLEF. Numerous other issues have been reported such as the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers and cab doors that presented resistance when trying to open."
Presumably have been fixed at Eastleigh, and the remaining software issues are in the process of being fixed and tested on the mainline in the video Fazaar1889 found?
Frustrating SWR are not giving updates, and Alstom only gave an update (saying hardware issues have been fixed) to the BBC after a passenger had sent a FOI request to the DFT.

The emboldened sentence seems optimistic to me, bearing in mind the number of false dawns there have been for these wretched trains. Personally I won't believe any statements about their entry into service until I actually see one out on the rails carrying paying passengers.

Remember the saga of the GWR 769s? We were constantly being told that they were about to begin service - until it was admitted that they wouldn't, they'd be stored and quite possibly scrapped without ever having carried a passenger.

I'm not suggesting that will happen to the 701s (yet) but after over three years delay I'm not convinced they'll even be running this year. There again they might prove me wrong (in the same way that I might win the lottery!)

 

[43096]

I’m astonished that SWR have not taken a leaf out of ÖBB’s book and terminated the contract for the ex-Bombardier trains due to non-delivery and gone to Siemens instead.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The emboldened sentence seems optimistic to me, bearing in mind the number of false dawns there have been for these wretched trains. Personally I won't believe any statements about their entry into service until I actually see one out on the rails carrying paying passengers.

Remember the saga of the GWR 769s? We were constantly being told that they were about to begin service - until it was admitted that they wouldn't, they'd be stored and quite possibly scrapped without ever having carried a passenger.

I'm not suggesting that will happen to the 701s (yet) but after over three years delay I'm not convinced they'll even be running this year. There again they might prove me wrong (in the same way that I might win the lottery!)

Whenever I encounter "701" and a service date in the same sentence I know I can save time by not reading the whole paragraph or article.

 

[TEW]

"These trains always run as a double set of 8 carriages..."

Is that true?

There's still some booked 4-cars on a Sunday and very occasional short formations on other days.

 

[GeoffS]

It is 100% not true. None of them are that young - even the youngest 59xx units were already two years old in 1987, and the "508" trailers were eight years old.

According to Platform 5's Stock Book, 57XXs date from 1984-85 (ex-508 trailers from 1979-80), 58XXs from 1982-84 and 59XXs from 1985. Merseyside 507s/508s date from 1978/79-80. Oldest of all are Southern's surviving 313s, going back to 1976-77.

 

[Mollman]

I’m astonished that SWR have not taken a leaf out of ÖBB’s book and terminated the contract for the ex-Bombardier trains due to non-delivery and gone to Siemens instead.

I think they would have to get agreement from the DfT, I am not sure the government would be too happy for an order of English built trains replaced by European trains.

 

[7031]

I think they would have to get agreement from the DfT, I am not sure the government would be too happy for an order of English built trains replaced by European trains.

Keep in mind as well sunk cost fallacy, and the assurances that they'll be ready to go any day now. Don't want to risk delaying the replacement of the 455s any further if the 701s are supposedly just around the corner...

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

"These trains always run as a double set of 8 carriages..."

Is that true?

No often run as a single 4

 

[WizCastro197]

No often run as a single 4

The vast majority, very vast majority in fact, so run as 8 coach. Running 4 coach is unsuitable for South London metro services they provide.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I’m astonished that SWR have not taken a leaf out of ÖBB’s book and terminated the contract for the ex-Bombardier trains due to non-delivery and gone to Siemens instead.

Those 350/2s which WMR don't want could presumably be modded to 350/1 or 450 capability for running on 750V DC. I imagine Alstom must be near to the end of class 730 build now, so it is commissioning them and getting them into service - within a year ?.