Which type of train still in service today will you miss most when they've all been withdrawn from use on the national network?

[Master29]

I read somewhere that the HSTs were first disliked at entry into service, people don't like new stuff as it replaces what they have already lived with for a while. But after a while the new stuff is met with fondness as it grows on people

I didn't personally but I can understand why some did.

 

[zwk500]

Maybe. I know them as E300

Yes, E300= Class 373, E320 = Class 374. The 'e3xx' branding was just a bit of Eurostar PR - they don't exceed 300kph because HS1, the Tunnel (160kph), LGV Nord, HSL-1, and HSL-Zuid don't permit speeds above 300kph (for now).

Class 373/e300 sets have the power and traction equipment concentrated in the end car with all (or nearly all) intermediate coaches as trailers, which is part of the reason for their colossal roar on departure. the Class 374/e320 sets have traction motors distributed throughout the train, which gives better acceleration and slightly better track wear as the weight is more evenly spread. It also means they're a bit quieter on departure as the noise is distributed across the train.

 

[yorksrob]

Yet I’m not really a fan. I prefer a 350/1 type layout.

Yes, those are also particularly good trains. From memory, not sure if the seats are as soft as on the 444's.

 

[12LDA28C]

I knew what was before the 390s - what I believe to be very unpleasant 90+MK3 sets as I went on many times with GA, and 87s pulling the same sort of carriages, only the seat moquette back then was a faded green. Horrible.

Unpleasant in what way? The Mark 3s are generally well-regarded as being well-designed, safe (in terms of crashworthiness), smooth-riding and comfortable. I'm not convinced that the colour of the moquette is a major factor in determining if they were 'good' or not. I'm getting an impression that some on here think anything 'old' (in their opinion) is automatically outdated/inferior/bad or whatever.

 

[Railperf]

It will be a sad day when most Intercity stock is an IET variant. Castle HST's on GWR will be missed. I hope 390's have a longer life in them yet. Tilting along the curvy bits of the WCML is a unique experience - great scenery in places - particularly north of Preston.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unpleasant in what way? The Mark 3s are generally well-regarded as being well-designed, safe (in terms of crashworthiness), smooth-riding and comfortable. I'm not convinced that the colour of the moquette is a major factor in determining if they were 'good' or not. I'm getting an impression that some on here think anything 'old' (in their opinion) is automatically outdated/inferior/bad or whatever.

I didn’t like the tiny seats or fixed armrests, the pneumatic automatic doors slamming, the creakiness of the carriages, etc. I’m just saying the reason I like Pendolinos is not because I’m too young to know what was there before, as I do know what was there before thanks to Greater Anglia, and I wasn’t too fussed. That’s not to say I don’t like them but I certainly prefer the 390s.

It will be a sad day when most Intercity stock is an IET variant. Castle HST's on GWR will be missed. I hope 390's have a longer life in them yet. Tilting along the curvy bits of the WCML is a unique experience - great scenery in places - particularly north of Preston.

Especially in the front carriage

 

[zwk500]

I didn’t like the tiny seats or fixed armrests, the pneumatic automatic doors slamming, the creakiness of the carriages, etc. I’m just saying the reason I like Pendolinos is not because I’m too young to know what was there before, as I do know what was there before thanks to Greater Anglia, and I wasn’t too fussed. That’s not to say I don’t like them but I certainly prefer the 390s.

But the point is you experienced a 30-year-old MK3 vs a brand new Pendo, and your view of both would probably be slightly different if you'd experienced the Mk3 new and the Pendo mid-life.

 

[warwickshire]

Class 156s built to last. All around a proper commuter and leisure traveller type of train.
Class 165 166, do the job and work hard. Ideal for views from windows.
Class 319, Class 323, 465,466, Units, again ideal for commuter and leisure and good views from windows ideal units all around.

 

[Class15]

I knew what was before the 390s - what I believe to be very unpleasant 90+MK3 sets as I went on many times with GA, and 87s pulling the same sort of carriages, only the seat moquette back then was a faded green. Horrible.

I beg to disagree. I have taken both the GA 90+Mk3 sets and Pendolinos and have found the loco-hauled sets far, far better. The pendolinos’ tilting makes an awful ride quality.

Unpleasant in what way? The Mark 3s are generally well-regarded as being well-designed, safe (in terms of crashworthiness), smooth-riding and comfortable. I'm not convinced that the colour of the moquette is a major factor in determining if they were 'good' or not. I'm getting an impression that some on here think anything 'old' (in their opinion) is automatically outdated/inferior/bad or whatever.

Fully agreed.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I beg to disagree. I have taken both the GA 90+Mk3 sets and Pendolinos and have found the loco-hauled sets far, far better. The pendolinos’ tilting makes an awful ride quality.


Fully agreed.

Ok...? I never suggested it was fact any train was better or worse. I clearly stated that was just my opinion.

 

[43096]

I didn’t like the tiny seats or fixed armrests, the pneumatic automatic doors slamming, the creakiness of the carriages, etc. I’m just saying the reason I like Pendolinos is not because I’m too young to know what was there before, as I do know what was there before thanks to Greater Anglia, and I wasn’t too fussed. That’s not to say I don’t like them but I certainly prefer the 390s.

But you’re quite happy with the frankly appalling interior design of the Pendolinos, the rattling panels and generally rubbish Alstom build quality. Strange…

 

[bramling]

But the point is you experienced a 30-year-old MK3 vs a brand new Pendo, and your view of both would probably be slightly different if you'd experienced the Mk3 new and the Pendo mid-life.

I’ve always found Mk3s quite average. Nothing earth shattering, but quite okay. But over the last couple of decades, when getting on one after having been on other trains, I can’t help but find the Mk3 surprisingly nice.

I like Mk4s and don’t mind a Pendolino providing I get a seat with a decent window, likewise like 180s and 222s. But can’t stand IETs; in my view they are a massive let-down. It also wouldn’t surprise me if the IET fleets start running into reliability issues as time goes on.

 

[faltskog36abba]

The 158/159s, naturally.

I agree with you, They still look modern today- Unlike some classes of train of similar age.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But you’re quite happy with the frankly appalling interior design of the Pendolinos, the rattling panels and generally rubbish Alstom build quality. Strange…

Yes, I never notice said rattles and what’s an appalling design to someone is a great one to another. I’m glad to see you respect and acknowledge other opinions besides your own

 

[Arch9enius]

Umm, the few remaining HST sets, and the class 455. Which unlike the 313s are quite civilised as long as you don't sit above the air compressor, and nowhere near as tatty.

 

[driverd]

Another hyper-controversial thread I see

Class 156s built to last. All around a proper commuter and leisure traveller type of train.

Unfortunately the corrosion is likely to see them off before the 150s. I would certainly agree that they're a pleasant unit though.

Yes, I never notice said rattles and what’s an appalling design to someone is a great one to another. I’m glad to see you respect and acknowledge other opinions besides your own

It's often quite surprising how some people notice some rattles. A lot of people complain about 195s rattling but it's not something I ever notice. I do, however, always notice it on 185s. I think it's a general ambiance thing - if you're comfortable and enjoying the unit you dont notice as much, perhaps?

Personally, I think the Pendolinos are a pretty iconic train, however, I'm not a fan of the new interior. The huge, tall seats make an already claustrophobic train feel even more boxed in. Its a shame, really.

My vote would have to go to the 170s. Pretty asthetics, comfortable and quiet (compared to similar DMUs), it'll be a shame to see them go.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Personally, I think the Pendolinos are a pretty iconic train, however, I'm not a fan of the new interior. The huge, tall seats make an already claustrophobic train feel even more boxed in. Its a shame, really.

The new interior is amazing for me, since the seat heads now accommodate for my height.
In addition more power sockets and a whole new car of standard class (for the 11 cars) is a well deserved mid-life refurbishment.

 

[Railperf]

I’ve always found Mk3s quite average. Nothing earth shattering, but quite okay. But over the last couple of decades, when getting on one after having been on other trains, I can’t help but find the Mk3 surprisingly nice.

I like Mk4s and don’t mind a Pendolino providing I get a seat with a decent window, likewise like 180s and 222s. But can’t stand IETs; in my view they are a massive let-down. It also wouldn’t surprise me if the IET fleets start running into reliability issues as time goes on.

LNER's HST interiors were probably the best Mk3 - in terms of feeling modern, brightness , seat comfort etc. Mark 4's are sn almost identical interior except for the slightly tapered bodyshell. But larger vestibule area and larger entrance doors and improved loos were the plus points - sadly came with worse ride quality but nowhere near as rough or jiggly as a Class 397. Agree that original pendolino interiors look tired now. Is the build quality that bad? Really? I'm not sure. It just feels out of date with swathes of shiny beige plastic. Rattles no worse than a Mk3 on rough track.

 

[Arch9enius]

It also wouldn’t surprise me if the IET fleets start running into reliability issues as time goes on.

Look to the Javelin sets for any early warnings I guess.

The only things I would criticise the IET sets for is having the doors at the ends, and cramped entrance vestibules. A bit of a liability when the things fill up, which they do on FGW.

 

[crosscity]

I'm going to cheat and give you two replies. One for the 'Modernisation' locos built in the sixties of which quite a few are still running and the other of something more modern.

The Class 37's are the old-timers I will really miss. Every time I hear one passing through Kings Norton they remind me of the huge sound they made as they climbed up the Calder Valley in West Yorkshire with heavy coal trains in the seventies.

I'll miss the Class 323's on the Crosscity line. I travelled on them to work five days a week from when they were introduced until I retired. I still use them at least once per week nowadays. The unique sound they make when accelerating is not quite as impressive as a 37, but recognisable all the same.

 

[GWVillager]

Look to the Javelin sets for any early warnings I guess.

The only things I would criticise the IET sets for is having the doors at the ends, and cramped entrance vestibules. A bit of a liability when the things fill up, which they do on FGW.

You can’t criticise an Intercity train for having end doors! But this got me thinking, I hate to say it but I can see myself growing very fond of and eventually missing the IETs when they go, they’ve got a good ‘feel’ to them.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's often quite surprising how some people notice some rattles. A lot of people complain about 195s rattling but it's not something I ever notice. I do, however, always notice it on 185s. I think it's a general ambiance thing - if you're comfortable and enjoying the unit you dont notice as much, perhaps?

If you want rattles, the old Class 104 DMUs were some of the worst - they sounded as if they were falling to bits even when on tickover.

It's struck me recently how good the 444's are.

They've certainly crammed in plenty of seats, but they've managed to make them comfortable and the interior nice and light.

The 442s were nicer (Mark 3s again of course). An AC version would have been great.

The way it's going the single coach in the 455/7's will be the last of the BREL/PEP.

318's are not PEP family

I don't think anyone suggested they were. The PEP family are classes 313, 314, 315, 445, 446, 507, 508. The last survivors are looking likely to be the ex-Class 508 trailers incorporated into Class 455/7. (although there are still 313s, 507s and 508s running around and all four classes have replacements lined up)

318 is one of the Mark 3-based classes - 150, 210, 317-322, 325, 455, 456

 

[cactustwirly]

For me the remaining 455s they are characterful and the motors make a nice noise

458s as well, they have comfortable seats and ride nicely, I think they're very underrated units. Personally I think the 701s will be a downgrade over these units

 

[LiftFan]

In my case, the 158s and 159s will be missed for pure experience. Another one to add will just be the rest of the Sprinter family as I actually like the loud thrash of the engines on them! Also going to add the 319s, again they have such a distinct motor sound which for me at least, is pleasing to the ears.

 

[Blindtraveler]

153/155/158/159, networkers which I absolutely adore and then probably another 10 years down the line the withdrawal of the first lot of electrostar classes which again I will miss once they have all gone with the possible exception of the three eight seven on which I am not quite so keen



Add to that London underground 92 and 96 stock

Oh and 16X units also

 

[Irascible]

You can’t criticise an Intercity train for having end doors! But this got me thinking, I hate to say it but I can see myself growing very fond of and eventually missing the IETs when they go, they’ve got a good ‘feel’ to them.

So good that the GW seats are collapsing, ride is getting dreadful already, the whole fleet needs both very heavy repair & more frequent wheel turning just so they don't crack apart, and anyone I know who goes east goes via 30 year old SWR if it's running. I won't miss the disasters one bit. There's at least one very recent thread about them.

GW HSTs were rather welcomed for finally providing a reliable service after quite some years of random breakdowns., probably not the same as the esst coast. Everyone who used the region, enthusiast or not, hated 50s at the time.

Fortunately the 158s seem to be overbuilt, so as long as there's bits to hang on them they should keep going a while yet.

 

[Versa274]

1.Class 156
2.IC225(First Class)
3.Class 331/195(a bit premature)
4.Class 444

For me it has to be the class 73s, i have really enjoyed seeing them from Tonbridge depot to seeing them do the weedkiller trains on the NKML and the Medway valley. When they pass through Chatham on the weedkillers as due to the design of the station being elevated above the platforms, the sound of the engine is incredible through the archways.

Kinda hope they have some more time on the mainline left.

I remember when in the late 80s class 73s were a stopgap between Rep and wessex fleet on the SWML
Some were incorporated into 3Rep with the class 73 replacing one Rep motor coach as the reps were donors for the Wessex class 442

 

[janahan]

The way it's going the single coach in the 455/7's will be the last of the BREL/PEP.

I know this is a late reply, and not sure if anyone picked up on this, but the "single" coach of the 455/7 is a PEP, whilst the 318, is a Mark 3 derived train that shares more commonailty with the 317, and the rest of the 455 formation.

 

[Blindtraveler]

With thanks to the above poster that said that class 73 make a good noise when going through Chatham. We'll need to keep half an eye on rtt for these as having recently moved to the area it would be nice to have a bit of diesel now and again although I am very much preferring my new diet of networkers, 175 and 395 but still doing far too many miles on thamesling 700s as well sadly,

 

[LUYMun]

Class 375/377s because they're very nice to travel around. Not too keen on the later 377s/387s because of their hard seats...