State of GWR’s IETs

[fgwrich]

Its dissapointing that the IET seats are terrible especially when Hitachi where capable of making the ones on the 395s rather comfortable and with great legroom a decade previously.

It's called being built to a price, and that price, we are unfortunately now paying for.

Still, remember then junior Transport Minister Jo Johnson's (now I kid you not Lord Baron Johnson of Marylebone) infamous statement that the IET Seats will become softer over time as more people use them. Erm, no.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Still, remember then junior Transport Minister Jo Johnson's (now I kid you not Lord Baron Johnson of Marylebone) infamous statement that the IET Seats will become softer over time as more people use them. Erm, no.

It's much like the "Ultrabounce" pillows I bought which sink straight through and provide nothing. They're actually too soft and that's the problem.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Are GWR senior management aware of these seat squab issues?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Yes, as are FG’s senior management.

Getting Hitachi to do something about it is “interesting”.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If you hire a car and the seats are knackered you take it back. Is there any part of the contract where Hitachi should replace any interior fittings should they fail before specification defines?

 

[Horizon22]

If you hire a car and the seats are knackered you take it back. Is there any part of the contract where Hitachi should replace any interior fittings should they fail before specification defines?

Although if it was a DfT spec and then signed off and Hitachi told them this would happen and worked something into contracts it could get very messy and slow to resolve.

 

[Energy]

Forgive me if it’s somewhere in this thread but what were the original seats?

Won't be public knowledge. I'd expect something Grammer, they supplied the seats for the 395s and the secondman's seat in the AT300s.

 

[Irascible]

What are the seats they installed built *for* anyway? buses? where else only expects seats to last a few years?

 

[irish_rail]

What are the seats they installed built *for* anyway? buses? where else only expects seats to last a few years?

I wander that. Seems bizarre that they have failed so early in life, is the same type of seat not used on any other trains in the world??

 

[Benjwri]

It really isn't fair on GWRs fare paying customers, Hitachi need to pull their finger out and do something about this issue. First step , hold the seat manufacturer to account, as no seat should be designed for a 5 year life max.

It’s GWR that need to start bringing it up aas they are entitled to in their maintenance contract, so it starts costing Hitachi money. It would actually save them money as it would add penalty points which mean they pay Hitachi less

 

[Energy]

I wander that. Seems bizarre that they have failed so early in life, is the same type of seat not used on any other trains in the world??

Other Sophia's don't have such a cheap cushion on top.

 

[irish_rail]

Other Sophia's don't have such a cheap cushion on top.

Another wonderful example of Daft false economy.

 

[Energy]

Another wonderful example of Daft false economy.

Indeed, the IETs weren't cheap either despite spending about £5 on the seats. Buffets are too expensive/take to much space but a kitchen on every 5 car set is ok as well...

 

[Henffordd]

Late to the discussion on seats. Following my first return trip on a GWR IET four years ago, I gave feedback (some positive) to GWR on some aspects of the journey. I complained about the seats. their reply was:

"Uncomfortable seating
We know that some customers feel the seats on our new fast trains are not as comfortable as those on our older fleet.

The reasons behind our new seating
When the trains were bought, strict safety regulations, and the need for durable and easy to maintain seats, had to be taken into account when the seating was considered.

We worked closely with the Department for Transport and Virgin Trains East Coast to test the seats with hundreds of Standard and First Class customers. 80% said they were as good as the seats on High Speed Trains. We know their ergonomic design won’t be popular with everyone but the overall feedback received has been positive."

Wasn't convinced then....

 

[Energy]

We worked closely with the Department for Transport and Virgin Trains East Coast to test the seats with hundreds of Standard and First Class customers. 80% said they were as good as the seats on High Speed Trains. We know their ergonomic design won’t be popular with everyone but the overall feedback received has been positive."

"as good as the seats on High Speed Trains" - the IC70s aren't exactly universally popular and the high density FGW refurbishment wasn't that popular either. Wonder if the seats they tried were the original ones before the DfT swapped them out...

 

[fgwrich]

Late to the discussion on seats. Following my first return trip on a GWR IET four years ago, I gave feedback (some positive) to GWR on some aspects of the journey. I complained about the seats. their reply was:

"Uncomfortable seating
We know that some customers feel the seats on our new fast trains are not as comfortable as those on our older fleet.

The reasons behind our new seating
When the trains were bought, strict safety regulations, and the need for durable and easy to maintain seats, had to be taken into account when the seating was considered.

We worked closely with the Department for Transport and Virgin Trains East Coast to test the seats with hundreds of Standard and First Class customers. 80% said they were as good as the seats on High Speed Trains. We know their ergonomic design won’t be popular with everyone but the overall feedback received has been positive."

Wasn't convinced then....

‘As good as the first class seats on our high speed trains’… hmmm!

 

[Mikey C]

It's called being built to a price, and that price, we are unfortunately now paying for.

Still, remember then junior Transport Minister Jo Johnson's (now I kid you not Lord Baron Johnson of Marylebone) infamous statement that the IET Seats will become softer over time as more people use them. Erm, no.

To be fair, that would have been what a civil servant at the DfT advised him to say...

 

[Irascible]

"as good as the seats on High Speed Trains" - the IC70s aren't exactly universally popular and the high density FGW refurbishment wasn't that popular either. Wonder if the seats they tried were the original ones before the DfT swapped them out...

Universally popular or not ( I didn't like them when they were new, although I didn't weigh very much back then ) - after five years they were just starting to become "comfortably" worn in. I'd agree the replacements were pretty horrid, but they haven't fallen apart either.

"as good as the seats on High Speed Trains" - I'd love to know what metric they're measuring there. As good for our budget, possibly.

"[]and the need for durable and easy to maintain seats, had to be taken into account when the seating was considered." - was taken into account & completely ignored!

So how is the public going to end up paying for all this anyway. I think I did some rough numbers given 30 year seat life on GWR south west routes & it was something like 50p on a ticket for the full journey & you could have a grand's worth of armchair...

How's the crack-fixing programme going?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Buffets are too expensive/take to much space but a kitchen on every 5 car set is ok as well...

Yet other TOCs had their buffets removed and a (occasional) trolley service instead.
Clearly GWR were considered more favourable to DfT at the time the Hitachis were ordered. Or might it be that numbers of ahem Western commuters to London would need breakfasts and dinners on their trains ?

 

[trebor79]

Yet other TOCs had their buffets removed and a (occasional) trolley service instead.
Clearly GWR were considered more favourable to DfT at the time the Hitachis were ordered. Or might it be that numbers of ahem Western commuters to London would need breakfasts and dinners on their trains ?

The irony is that other than the very few dining trains the full kitchens go completely unused.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Yet other TOCs had their buffets removed and a (occasional) trolley service instead.
Clearly GWR were considered more favourable to DfT at the time the Hitachis were ordered. Or might it be that numbers of ahem Western commuters to London would need breakfasts and dinners on their trains ?

No, that was the decision of the DfT architect of the IEP scheme. His idea was that all the “main line” units, for whatever TOC, would have the same provision.

 

[Brubulus]

I think all units need a refresh, with the 5 car units having the full size kitchen cut down to a small galley in the crumple zone, which would serve a basic hot food service to both FC and Standard (via a pre order system). This would be the offering on all medium length routes.

9 car units will have a similar treatment, but with a combined buffet/kitchen fitted in between First and Standard. The crumple zone will be turned into lockable storage area for bulky items, including surfboards. The basic menu will be offered complimentary for First passengers, with higher quality dishes avaliable for a supplement.

All units would be fitted with new, thicker seat cushions that provide a reasonable level of comfort, but with the seat frame remaining and overall it would enable a small capacity increase on 5 car units, with possibly a single row lost on 9 car units, though it would reduce flexibility in diagramming.

 

[Energy]

No, that was the decision of the DfT architect of the IEP scheme. His idea was that all the “main line” units, for whatever TOC, would have the same provision.

"The great cartographer" again?

Kitchens on all AT300s for the limited number of pullman services is mad... do the TPE ones also have a kitchen?

 

[Brubulus]

"The great cartographer" again?

Kitchens on all AT300s for the limited number of pullman services is mad... do the TPE ones also have a kitchen?

No, they've got a small galley that can only prepare basic hot dishes. LNER only use the kitchens to their full potential on "Dine" services so there is a possibility it should be cut on the 5 car sets and instead have everything resourced from the buffet counter, probably also bringing staffing efficiencies.

 

[stuu]

I'm on the 1836 to Plymouth. The bogie is hunting horrendously and banging from side to side, passengers genuinely looking concerned a couple of times, especially over the the S&C around Southall/Hayes. I haven't experienced this on any mainline train before, even the DLR doesn't get this bad

 

[trebor79]

I'm on the 1836 to Plymouth. The bogie is hunting horrendously and banging from side to side, passengers genuinely looking concerned a couple of times, especially over the the S&C around Southall/Hayes. I haven't experienced this on any mainline train before, even the DLR doesn't get this bad

Years ago a friend was on an ECML express and experienced similar. Went and found the guard who also looked concerned. Stopped the train at the next station and found a "not to go" placard...

 

[fgwrich]

I'm on the 1836 to Plymouth. The bogie is hunting horrendously and banging from side to side, passengers genuinely looking concerned a couple of times, especially over the the S&C around Southall/Hayes. I haven't experienced this on any mainline train before, even the DLR doesn't get this bad

Skateboard bogie underneath your coach by any chance? I’ve found those to be the worst riding of all the track friendly bogies, let alone in an IET set.

 

[800301]

I'm on the 1836 to Plymouth. The bogie is hunting horrendously and banging from side to side, passengers genuinely looking concerned a couple of times, especially over the the S&C around Southall/Hayes. I haven't experienced this on any mainline train before, even the DLR doesn't get this bad

Have you spoke to the Train manager about it? Seeing as 802103 is currently running on time, doesn’t seem anyone else has if it really is that bad.

There is a bit around Eailing that is bad in the 387’s but seemed fine in an 800 last week

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Indeed, the IETs weren't cheap either despite spending about £5 on the seats. Buffets are too expensive/take to much space but a kitchen on every 5 car set is ok as well...

Err.... that is what GW management of the day wanted..... giving the ability for full-service dining on some trains but chopping the buffets and offering a minimal at-seat service of largely non-perishable items.

 

[KGX]

Another wonderful example of Daft false economy.

It boggles my mind.
The Government spend hundreds of millions modernising rolling stock. Should be a vote winner, but because they scrimp and save on the customer facing interior fit out they don't get the credit they could have got. So why bother. Blows my mind trying to understand the thought process of the kinda people that work in the civil service.