Ticket office closures

[WAB]

It’s not just modifying the gates that’s the problem - LU has identified the barcode scanning is too slow and the throughput will be insufficient without expanding gatelines.

They could print onto CCSTs so there are no barcodes to scan?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Once all tickets are made available as e-tickets, we'll be in a much better position.

And do you actually believe that issue will be fixed before the axe comes down on many ticket offices? Because I don't! Yes the issues are somewhat separate but one needs to be sorted first!

 

[Romsey]

Not quite correct, FIP75 is available for active FIP card holders in adjacent countries. For example we get 75% off in France and Belgium.

Thanks for the reminder, not that I'm going to France in the near future!

 

[weeklycommuter]

To buy a season ticket a photocard has always been needed. To get this it has always been necessary to go to a ticket office at a railway station. Has this Government and the train operators put in place a system to issue photocards without using a ticket office at a railway station? Or have they decided that a photocard will no longer be needed to buy a season ticket? I presume that in planning for the closure of all railway station ticket offices they must of course have considered this? I presume they have gone through the list of products and services that can only be obtained at railway station ticket offices and ensured that it is no longer necessary to go to a railway station ticket office for any of these products and services?
I get the impression that in contrast to Transport for London which enabled the closure of ticket offices by making them unnecessary with Oyster cards this Government and the train operators have done none of things that need to be done to make the use of rail ticket offices no longer necessary. Quite apart from services that are only available from rail ticket offices the rail ticketing system is far too complicated and many rail passengers use rail ticket offices because they do not know which ticket they need to buy. Rail passengers who use ticket offices will likely complain to their Members of Parliament about any proposal to close the ticket office at their local railway station and proposals for widespread ticket office closure would be yet another issue turning many voters against the Government in the run up to the next general election.
One issue is ensuring that ticket vending machines provide all the tickets that can be purchased at a ticket office. I found it very annoying that I could not buy an Anglia Plus day ticket using the ticket machines at Cambridge North Station, which opened with ticketing vending machines only and no ticket office. Anglia Plus day tickets can be purchased on Greater Anglia trains but Cambridge North Station has ticket gates so it was not possible to get to the train to buy the ticket. Train operators really should ensure that all tickets are available on ticket vending machines so rail passengers do not have to use ticket offices.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

And do you actually believe that issue will be fixed before the axe comes down on many ticket offices? Because I don't! Yes the issues are somewhat separate but one needs to be sorted first!

If you cant buy what you need before you board , then you buy on board or at destination. Its up to the TOCS if they choose to close ticket offices before those facilities are in place.

 

[43066]

Products put on the counter with a comment of enjoy your remaining work, because that view isn't customer friendly. I hope your redundancy package is good!

It sounds like you created quite the little scene.

It’s a little out of line having a strop at retail staff who are likely being paid a pittance, will be unable to answer back and certainly won’t have made the decision.

In any case, it may well be that the organisation has calculated that the cost of handling cash exceeds the value of the business lost. They’ll therefore be happy not to entertain your custom!

 

[Romsey]

It sounds like you created quite the little scene.

It’s a little out of line having a strop at retail staff who are likely being paid a pittance, will be unable to answer back and certainly won’t have made the decision.

In any case, it may well be that the organisation has calculated that the cost of handling cash exceeds the value of the business lost. They’ll therefore be happy not to entertain your custom!

Maybe, but their attitude was pretty rude giving the impression that customers were an inconveience. I'm not going to name the store but they did end up in the local media some years ago for refusing entry to a customer in a wheel chair as "they would get in the way".
Sorry, sir, but we're only accepting cash payments wouldn't have cost them anything. Apart from a management briefing....

 

[Bald Rick]

And do you actually believe that issue will be fixed before the axe comes down on many ticket offices? Because I don't! Yes the issues are somewhat separate but one needs to be sorted first!

The bit I don’t get about arguments like this, or the season ticket photocard one, is that there are already around a thousand stations on the network today without a ticket office. The passengers using these seem to manage ok.

The programme is not going to close every ticket office. Nor is it going to happen immediately. Ticket offices have been closing for decades, this is just going to be continuation of that process at a faster pace, in the same way that banks, post offices and insurance brokers have been closing their smaller branches.

 

[Horizon22]

Ticket offices have been closing for decades, this is just going to be continuation of that process at a faster pace, in the same way that banks, post offices and insurance brokers have been closing their smaller branches.

I gather that the people who are vehemently against ticket offices closing are probably the same people who would be in opposition to the above too.

 

[Roast Veg]

Is there a plan for CIV tickets?

 

[Brush 4]

We don't hear about J. Public and the problem they had at Little Snoring Central. Lots of little incidents like that at Stations, Banks and PO's that just go unnoticed. Quietly, people just abandon whatever it is they are trying to do and no-one ever knows about it......

 

[Bald Rick]

I gather that the people who are vehemently against ticket offices closing are probably the same people who would be in opposition to the above too.

Oh no doubt. I’m really upset because the operator wouldn’t place a long distance call for me, nor could I send a telegram to answer this post.

We don't hear about J. Public and the problem they had at Little Snoring Central. Lots of little incidents like that at Stations, Banks and PO's that just go unnoticed. Quietly, people just abandon whatever it is they are trying to do and no-one ever knows about it......

Except we do - as dozens of the above posts show.

What we don’t hear about are the many hundred times more people who happily go about ordering e-tickets, buying postage on line, doing car tax on the Gobernment website, buying plane tickets on an app, etc etc because they find it easier (because, in general, it is).

 

[WAB]

I expect if this is proceeded with that the strikes will be intensified, perhaps even an all-out strike. In fact, an all-out strike might be the only way that the wretched situation on the railways, which has now been going on for a year, can be resolved one way or the other.

Can non-booking office station staff and traincrew strike on the basis of changes to the conditions of the booking clerk grade? I wouldn't have thought traincrew would be in the same bargaining unit, and perhaps not the station staff either. You'd only really need to cover dispatchers at locations where they are compulsory, and it won't be a long drawn-out strike either as clerical and management grades will be trained and drafted in along with agency staff to cover dispatch as soon as it seems likely to be drawn out again. Booking clerks striking will barely be noticed. Station staff are on meagre salaries compared to traincrew so won't be able to hold out as long as them either.

 

[brad465]

More staff are needed at gates/on a concourse so if offices do close they better be redeployed, in recent years as more ticket formats have come out, barriers seem to struggle to deal with the different formats and I've found myself increasingly frustrated at long waits just to get through, because of other passengers infront having problems.

 

[weeklycommuter]

The bit I don’t get about arguments like this, or the season ticket photocard one, is that there are already around a thousand stations on the network today without a ticket office. The passengers using these seem to manage ok.

The programme is not going to close every ticket office. Nor is it going to happen immediately. Ticket offices have been closing for decades, this is just going to be continuation of that process at a faster pace, in the same way that banks, post offices and insurance brokers have been closing their smaller branches.

They would have to go to a different station with a ticket office to get a season ticket photocard, they cannot get this at a station without a ticket office. The railway industry really should be able to provide photocards without the need to visit a station with a ticket office. It should be possible to do this online with an online photo and completely avoid the need to visit a railway station with a ticket office.

 

[bramling]

Oh no doubt. I’m really upset because the operator wouldn’t place a long distance call for me, nor could I send a telegram to answer this post.




Except we do - as dozens of the above posts show.

What we don’t hear about are the many hundred times more people who happily go about ordering e-tickets, buying postage on line, doing car tax on the Gobernment website, buying plane tickets on an app, etc etc because they find it easier (because, in general, it is).

Whilst in general I agree with your point, if one takes something like car tax renewal this isn’t quite the same, as to renew it in a post office means making a special journey there and probably having to queue for a while. So, yes, doing it online is probably going to be easier providing the technology works.

But if I want to take the train to London, what could be simpler than turning up at the station, going to the window and asking for a ticket to London? The only snag is if there’s a queue, but most of the time that shouldn’t be a problem.

In the first case, doing the task online makes it easier. In the second case I’m not convinced it does.

 

[yorkie]

Today I bought two tickets at the ticket office at Bristol Parkway, one for £148. I am sceptical about ticket office staff being redeployed to work elsewhere in stations. There are already substantially more staff outside ticket offices in this country than in many European countries, Germany and Switzerland, for instance. Most of the already existing platform staff at stations fulfil only a limited function. I expect if this is proceeded with that the strikes will be intensified, perhaps even an all-out strike. In fact, an all-out strike might be the only way that the wretched situation on the railways, which has now been going on for a year, can be resolved one way or the other.

What journey are you making for £148 and is there a reason it couldn't have been bought online?

Some tickets aren't available online but that simply needs to change; there is no problem buying tickets online in the countries you cite.

It is not for you or anybody else to prohibit other people from using cash. While I mainly use cards since the pandemic, recently I was in a restaurant when their electronic system crashed and the only way I could pay was cash.

No-one is going to be prevented from using cash in the forseeable future; it will remain a valid payment method. It is becoming increasingly niche though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They would have to go to a different station with a ticket office to get a season ticket photocard, they cannot get this at a station without a ticket office. The railway industry really should be able to provide photocards without the need to visit a station with a ticket office. It should be possible to do this online with an online photo and completely avoid the need to visit a railway station with a ticket office.

Or just do away with photocards and accept the odd bit of passing around. They already have for weeklies.

That said, if ITSO is the future for seasons a personalised ITSO card with photo orderable online or by post isn't a stretch.

 

[infobleep]

I don't get your point? If a station was completely destaffed, that position clearly wouldn't be tenable.

It was suggested unstaffed stations could still have disabled toilets using RADAR keys. I pointed out how that might not be possible, even if RADAR keys. That's my point.

Once all tickets are made available as e-tickets, we'll be in a much better position.

I agree that we currently have a mess whereby some tickets cannot be issued as e-tickets; this is wrong. The fact that ticket offices are closing isn't wrong; it's the lack of ability to get all tickets in a suitable format that is wrong.

I've been to many other countries that have been getting this right for years, and I've not had to visit a ticket office in any of the relevant countries (nor would I want to!)

Whilst I buy most of my tickets from a TMV or online now, even Deutsche Bahn doesn't offer e-tickets for all routes. I found this surprising.

I will get an e-ticket but only when it isn't faster to buy my tickets from a non-journey planner TMV or I can't.

Still doesn't require a ticket office.

Is like there to be a non-journey planner booking route though. Something as good as what staff can use in their ticket offices.

What we don’t hear about are the many hundred times more people who happily go about ordering e-tickets, buying postage on line, doing car tax on the Gobernment website, buying plane tickets on an app, etc etc because they find it easier (because, in general, it is).

I have looked at buying postage online but there is never any help on how to get the postage attached to your parcel. You can print it on paper but then you'd be wasting most if an A4 sheet.

In a post office you are given printed stamp(s) that you can peel off and stick on.

I agree with your other examples though.

 

[Parham Wood]

Without a ticket office. Send the ticket to customer services and give a valid reason and it could take upto two weeks to get a refund.

In the cases like this the postage should also be refunded.

 

[crablab]

That said, if ITSO is the future for seasons a personalised ITSO card with photo orderable online or by post isn't a stretch.

A bit like a personalised Chipkaart.

 

[scrapy]

Can non-booking office station staff and traincrew strike on the basis of changes to the conditions of the booking clerk grade? I wouldn't have thought traincrew would be in the same bargaining unit, and perhaps not the station staff either. You'd only really need to cover dispatchers at locations where they are compulsory, and it won't be a long drawn-out strike either as clerical and management grades will be trained and drafted in along with agency staff to cover dispatch as soon as it seems likely to be drawn out again. Booking clerks striking will barely be noticed. Station staff are on meagre salaries compared to traincrew so won't be able to hold out as long as them either.

Traincrew could strike on the basis that if they are medically restricted they are found station grade jobs. Obviously if these jobs no longer exist they can no longer be put in these jobs.

 

[Gaelan]

They are entitled to buy on board if there is no useable facility at their origin station. If there is no opportunity to buy on board, then they can pay at the next opportunity. If no opportunity exists then the journey would ultimately be complimentary

Having that argument with the guard every time they get the train sounds less than fun.

Not relevant; you can print a paper ticket and/or hold it on multiple devices and/or bring a battery pack (you could even combine these things for added redundancy)

All far, far, more faff than a TVM or office, especially for those of us without printers at home.

Is there a plan for CIV tickets?

TrainSplit issues them ToD.

 

[yorkie]

Having that argument with the guard every time they get the train sounds less than fun.

Why would there be an argument?

All far, far, more faff than a TVM or office, especially for those of us without printers at home.

I don't see how this is more of a faff than a TVM or ticket office; while it is true that a small proportion of users dislike e-tickets, the vast majority of passengers choose to use e-tickets (and that goes for other applicable transport modes) where this is an option; it was all debated in previous threads, most recently:

E-Tickets being inaccessible/difficult to use for the elderly.

Well then, here's the story; Today I visited an elderly member of my family who regularly uses her senior travel pass for the west midlands wich grants her free acces to busses, trains and trams in the west midlands region. However, we were discussing a trip involving buying a standard ticket...

www.railforums.co.uk

E-tickets vs Paper tickets

Hello there, When buying tickets, I’ve noticed quite a lot of site strongly encouraging, (or in some cases forcing) you to buy e-tickets rather than paper tickets. I was just wondering what everyone’s preference is when it comes to tickets. I personally prefer paper tickets, but it would be...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[HBP]

That said, if ITSO is the future for seasons a personalised ITSO card with photo orderable online or by post isn't a stretch.

Already happened. My LNER personalised ITSO Smartcard has my photo on it.

 

[Gaelan]

Why would there be an argument?

Passenger has invisible disability that prevents them for accessing the ticket machine. (Obvious example: it's on a faraway platform, and for any number of reasons it's a bad idea for them to be walking more than strictly necessary.) As such, they're entitled to board without a ticket and buy on board. It seems entirely likely that some guards/RPIs will require some convincing that their disability is real, and others will outright refuse to believe them and issue a penalty fare.

I don't see how this is more of a faff than a TVM or ticket office; while it is true that a small proportion of users dislike e-tickets, the vast majority of passengers choose to use e-tickets (and that goes for other applicable transport modes) where this is an option; it was all debated in previous threads, most recently:

I was responding to your workaround for battery failure: printing a ticket at home requires advance planning and a printer at home; a power bank is an extra object to purchase and remember to carry around. For reference I'm in Scotland with a digital railcard and a bad phone battery, so while I can't use an eTicket (I refuse to use mTickets, among other reasons because my preferred app won't issue them) I frequently run into issues with my battery dying before I can show the guard my railcard on the return trip home. I do own a power bank, and try to bring it with me, but often forget it, find it's not charged, or can't find it in the rush to leave home to catch a train. All surmountable issues, obviously! But more faff. But yes, sorry, probably not worth rehashing much further.

 

[tomuk]

It’s not just modifying the gates that’s the problem - LU has identified the barcode scanning is too slow and the throughput will be insufficient without expanding gatelines.

I thought Tfl and DfT\RDG had agreed that barcode readers will be fitted to gates at London Terminals and other high traffic transfer stations so cross London transfer flows can switch to e-tickets.

 

[bramling]

I thought Tfl and DfT\RDG had agreed that barcode readers will be fitted to gates at London Terminals and other high traffic transfer stations so cross London transfer flows can switch to e-tickets.

If my gym is anything to go by, scanning a barcode just wouldn’t work on TFL. It just doesn’t seem to scan readily enough.

 

[yorksrob]

The bit I don’t get about arguments like this, or the season ticket photocard one, is that there are already around a thousand stations on the network today without a ticket office. The passengers using these seem to manage ok.

The programme is not going to close every ticket office. Nor is it going to happen immediately. Ticket offices have been closing for decades, this is just going to be continuation of that process at a faster pace, in the same way that banks, post offices and insurance brokers have been closing their smaller branches.

In the same way that the Beeching programme was a continuation of a pre-existing closure process at a faster pace.

I.e. done in more haste, with less consideration of passenger needs and purely as a cost cutting exercise.

We've been here before and I don't trust them to "re-shape" ticket office provision around passenger needs. The fact that it is this Government is instigating it suggests it will be a slash and burn exercise.

 

[railfan99]

Making railways less user friendly for tourists, infrequent travellers, older travellers and anybody else who wants to speak to somebody knowledgeable is a huge mistake and very shortsighted. Those ticket officers could be retrained and used as staff in other parts of the station to keep there to make sure the railway is well tended to.

Perhaps given staff attrition they'll be redeployed to other positions?