Cross-Country chat (1987-2000)

[nw1]

Note: the thread has become general XC chat for the late 80s and 90s, partly down to myself I admit, so I've edited the subject to reflect that. Basically the idea of the thread is any discussion on XC post-sectorisation and during early privatisation, but prior to the introduction of Voyagers.

Follows on a bit from the current thread on "broken Britain" services into Liverpool from over the Pennines but, having been thinking quite a bit about the "classic" XC era (the 'loco-hauled and HST' era, up to early Virgin) recently, I'm wondering when, and why, XC lost most of its Liverpool services.

For most of the 80s Lime Street had a two-hourly service to Birmingham by XC, with many services then extending to the SE or SW. In some years this was an exact clockface pattern, in others less regular.

From around 1987 to 1995 I stopped following XC, before regaining interest around the time of privatisation. By then, XC Liverpool services were much more restricted: there was a daily Poole-Liverpool and return (out morning, back afternoon). The latter service, the southbound afternoon Liverpool-Poole was one of the longest-standing individual XC services, with a history going back to at least 1978. There was also, IIRC, an afternoon Reading-Liverpool which was the return working of the Edinburgh-Reading which ISTR was notable for being worked occasionally by D9000 "Royal Scots Grey". This must have presumably have had a balancing working, presumably in the morning out of Liverpool.

The majority of the services out of Liverpool at this time towards Birmingham were operated by Central Trains. It was however more frequent at (IIRC) hourly.

So at some point between 1987 and 1995, but not sure when, the majority of Liverpool-Birmingham must have transferred from the IC sector to the RR sector - and the through services to the SE and SW were largely lost.

The question is, why? My theory would be that there was a desire for a more frequent service to Birmingham but insufficient XC stock for IC to continue to run it. RR had enough stock and so they took it over.
The other question is when? In 1986 I remember there were still plenty of XC Liverpools but by Virgin days these had been drastically reduced.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm wondering when, and why, XC lost most of its Liverpool services.

It was a change that arose out of the tidy up of Cross Country services after the failure of Operation Princess in 2003.

The Operation Princess timetable was effectively planned around a two hourly repeating pattern:

It looks like the basic timetable plan was:
Hour 1 through Birmingham
Liverpool to Portsmouth
Edinburgh (East Coast) to Paignton
Manchester to Birmingham
Newcastle to Bournemouth
Scotland (West Coast) to Plymouth

Hour 2 through Birmingham
Manchester to Brighton
Dundee (East Coast) to Cardiff
Scotland (via Manchester) to Bournemouth
Blackpool North to Birmingham International
Newcastle to Plymouth

This is described here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...s-the-intended-timetable.220559/#post-5244363

It had been roughly one CrossCountry train every four hours before that.

Liverpool was dropped in favour of concentrating CrossCountry on Manchester (and, until 2008, Scotland), with Central Trains operating the services on the Liverpool corridor.

It is fairly simple to see why this simplification works from an operational perspective, given the crew depots and servicing arrangements in Manchester for CrossCountry.

Moreover, in the subsequent changes which followed the introduction of 350s, Liverpool to Crewe has more places of intermediate importance, like Hartford and Winsford that don't justify a stopping service (eg Crewe to Liverpool), but do have a place in a regional one (eg Birmingham to Liverpool). Crewe and Stoke to Manchester both justify proper stoppers.

Running 2tph CrossCountry from Birmingham to Manchester and 2tph CrossCountry from Birmingham to Sheffield, and 2tph Londonnorthwestern Railway Birmingham to Liverpool (until recently) makes some sense given there are / were only 2tph Birmingham to Reading and 2tph Birmingham to Bristol.

 

[frodshamfella]

Why,.its.a puzzling question . Particularly when you consider that back then Liverpool wasn't anything like it is.today with large visitors from all over . I mean why is there only one train an hour to London and one to Birmingham, both should have been double that a long time ago. You mentioned lost services to the SE and SW, there are some who think the long distance service to Nottingham and Norwich should be curtailed. Absolutely not, ive used it from LSP and from observing seat reservations there are many travelling long distances including the whole journey. There is also the ongoing delay to reintroduced Liverpool to North and South Wales, which when you think of the proximity,.its crazy these services went. Things really need beefing up.

 

[nw1]

It was a change that arose out of the tidy up of Cross Country services after the failure of Operation Princess in 2003.

Sorry if it was unclear - I was referring to a timescale before that.

In the early/mid 80s, IC ran all, or almost all, services from Birmingham-Liverpool; by the late 90s Central Trains ran most of the services with only occasional Virgin XC services. So presumably some time between around 1987-95, most of the Birmingham-Liverpool services were transferred from IC to RR; the timescale and rationale for this is what I was enquiring about.

However thanks for the info/reminder on the Operation Princess pattern. To say something really controversial, I'd argue that Operation Princess was the last really "interesting" XC timetable from an enthusiast perspective (and I am only saying this as an enthusiast, not in any other capacity, I do recognise its reliability issues!)

 

[6Gman]

Why,.its.a puzzling question . Particularly when you consider that back then Liverpool wasn't anything like it is.today with large visitors from all over . I mean why is there only one train an hour to London and one to Birmingham, both should have been double that a long time ago. You mentioned lost services to the SE and SW, there are some who think the long distance service to Nottingham and Norwich should be curtailed. Absolutely not, ive used it from LSP and from observing seat reservations there are many travelling long distances including the whole journey. There is also the ongoing delay to reintroduced Liverpool to North and South Wales, which when you think of the proximity,.its crazy these services went. Things really need beefing up.

Pre-Covid there were two trains per hour between Birmingham and Liverpool. Hopefully that will be restored though I'm sure the DfT enjoy the saving in traincrew of an hourly 8-car over two 4-cars.

 

[frodshamfella]

Pre-Covid there were two trains per hour between Birmingham and Liverpool. Hopefully that will be restored though I'm sure the DfT enjoy the saving in traincrew of an hourly 8-car over two 4-cars.

I'm sure they do, but its not good for passengers, particularly if the hourly only service gets cancelled.

 

[6Gman]

I'm sure they do, but its not good for passengers, particularly if the hourly only service gets cancelled.

It also means that although there are two trains each hour between Crewe and Liverpool they run within ten minutes of each other.

Which is not really helpful.

 

[JonathanH]

In the early/mid 80s, IC ran all, or almost all, services from Birmingham-Liverpool; by the late 90s Central Trains ran most of the services with only occasional Virgin XC services. So presumably some time between around 1987-95, most of the Birmingham-Liverpool services were transferred from IC to RR; the timescale and rationale for this is what I was enquiring about.

I'll look it up if I get the chance.

I think it is more subtle than a transfer of services, in that CrossCountry streamlined its services in the early 1990s, at the time that XC received more HSTs and standardised on 7 coach loco hauled formations. This would have been the point from which Liverpool was served less.

In the early 1990s, I seem to recall there had also been Crewe to Liverpool stoppers which got axed due to a lack of available rolling stock, as the 304s were being run down.

Then, once the 323s were in service, they were used in part to run more Birmingham to Liverpool services, later displaced by 158s and 170s when it got joined up to the Stansted Airport service.

However, I ought to check the facts in the timetables over the relevant periods.

 

[nw1]

I'll look it up if I get the chance.

I think it is more subtle than a transfer of services, in that CrossCountry streamlined its services in the early 1990s, at the time that XC received more HSTs and standardised on 7 coach loco hauled formations. This would have been the point from which Liverpool was served less.

In the early 1990s, I seem to recall there had also been Crewe to Liverpool stoppers which got axed due to a lack of available rolling stock, as the 304s were being run down.

Then, once the 323s were in service, they were used in part to run more Birmingham to Liverpool services, later displaced by 158s and 170s when it got joined up to the Stansted Airport service.

However, I ought to check the facts in the timetables over the relevant periods.

Thanks for giving an overview - will look forward to more detail if you do get the chance to look into it.

I do remember by the VT era that XC operated standardised formations, all of which were aircon Mk-II, but once again I'm vague on the date of introduction. I think HSTs came to selected Bournemouth XC services in 1992, possibly 1991.

I do seem to remember in the early CT era and immediate preceding RR era the Birmingham-Liverpool was variously operated by 310s, and 323s as you say, but I'm rather vague on the detail. I think these were the first services to serve some of the smaller stops such as Penkridge, presumably a cost-cutting move to avoid running separate Birmingham-Stafford stoppers.

 

[Bevan Price]

I'll look it up if I get the chance.

I think it is more subtle than a transfer of services, in that CrossCountry streamlined its services in the early 1990s, at the time that XC received more HSTs and standardised on 7 coach loco hauled formations. This would have been the point from which Liverpool was served less.

In the early 1990s, I seem to recall there had also been Crewe to Liverpool stoppers which got axed due to a lack of available rolling stock, as the 304s were being run down.

Then, once the 323s were in service, they were used in part to run more Birmingham to Liverpool services, later displaced by 158s and 170s when it got joined up to the Stansted Airport service.

However, I ought to check the facts in the timetables over the relevant periods.

Technically the Crewe to Liverpool stoppers were not actually "axed". Their stops were inserted as additional stops for the Birmingham / Liverpool services (and before privatisation) some of the (now disappeared) Cardiff / Liverpool services operated by Regional Railways.
Originally about every 2 hours, those Cardiff services with some worked by Class 37s, others by 158s, alternated with Cardiff / Manchester services. They were later reduced to one (or two) per day, then none, all running instead between Cardiff and Manchester only.

 

[nw1]

Technically the Crewe to Liverpool stoppers were not actually "axed". Their stops were inserted as additional stops for the Birmingham / Liverpool services (and before privatisation) some of the (now disappeared) Cardiff / Liverpool services operated by Regional Railways.
Originally about every 2 hours, those Cardiff services with some worked by Class 37s, others by 158s, alternated with Cardiff / Manchester services. They were later reduced to one (or two) per day, then none, all running instead between Cardiff and Manchester only.

That would explain something which I swear I saw around the end of May 1990 in Cardiff. I distinctly remember seeing a 37 hauling MkI coaches heading for Liverpool.

 

[Snow1964]

I'll look it up if I get the chance.

I think it is more subtle than a transfer of services, in that CrossCountry streamlined its services in the early 1990s, at the time that XC received more HSTs and standardised on 7 coach loco hauled formations. This would have been the point from which Liverpool was served less.

XC changed a lot from mid 1980s through to early 1990s.

Back in mid 1980s virtually all XC from North West to south coast were mk 2 -2c (not air conditioned) and were generally 9-10 coaches.

There was certainly a cascade of stock as the 91s and mk4s were introduced on East Coast, but why there was a general shortening on trains on XC wasn't clear to me, unless there was a policy of making all trains air conditioned, even though not enough cascaded stock to do them all, so shorter trains and route cutbacks occurred instead

Liverpool wasn't the only place to get chopped, the Dorset ones were cut back to Bournemouth (most had been Poole, with some summer ones continuing to Weymouth).

Quite why the whole XC had to be air conditioned by 1992-93 when big parts hadn't been just 7 years earlier, even if meant cutting back the network is bound to be linked.

 

[nw1]

XC changed a lot from mid 1980s through to early 1990s.

Back in mid 1980s virtually all XC from North West to south coast were mk 2 -2c (not air conditioned) and were generally 9-10 coaches.

There was certainly a cascade of stock as the 91s and mk4s were introduced on East Coast, but why there was a general shortening on trains on XC wasn't clear to me, unless there was a policy of making all trains air conditioned, even though not enough cascaded stock to do them all, so shorter trains and route cutbacks occurred instead

Liverpool wasn't the only place to get chopped, the Dorset ones were cut back to Bournemouth (most had been Poole, with some summer ones continuing to Weymouth).

Quite why the whole XC had to be air conditioned by 1992-93 when big parts hadn't been just 7 years earlier, even if meant cutting back the network is bound to be linked.

I'd tend to agree that it would have been much better to keep some non-aircons on XC than just cut the services!

The last 80s timetable I remember clearly was that of 1986/87. There was some increase in aircon then compared to a couple of years earlier, but still plenty of non-aircon services, including the 0805 Portsmouth-Liverpool.

As I said, 1987-95 or so is a bit of a blank for me when it comes to XC so unsure of the exact timescales. I do know that Portsmouth lost its services as early as May 1987 (this may have triggered my relative lack of interest as, living close to the Direct, I lost my 'local' XC service) though they did come back under Virgin in the late 90s, with the interesting phenomenon of at least one HST-operated service calling at Haslemere!

I do recall one out-and-back XC service from Southampton to Stafford in June 1990, which I'm fairly sure was aircon both directions. Not sure how long the trains were though. Out Sat morning, back Sun afternoon with diversion via Stourbridge and Worcester, the Sat service was possibly the old-school morning Poole-Liverpool or Manchester which in the mid-80s left Reading around 0830, but not sure.

Would be interesting to see some XC timetables, particuarly on the Reading axis, for this missing 1987-95 period, and particularly the first half of this period (would guess that 1995 for instance was similar to 1997 which I do remember). Thanks to marshalling books and old timetables I'm getting an increasingly clear idea of the 1978-81 period (i.e that immediately preceding my interest in the railway) but the late 80s to mid 90s is still a bit of a blank.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think you can blame franchise remapping for most of the changes relating to BR's XC and RR operations, along with rolling stock policy at the affected TOCs.
Virgin were not interested in stopping services and didn't have the rolling stock anyway.
In the carve-up over Virgin XC, Virgin retained the Birmingham-Scotland leg of XC, integrating it with WC, and then stopped through running to SE/SW destinations.
Central/LM/LNWR had the WCML stoppers and eventually a new fleet of 350s, and lower operating costs.
The low point was Central's long-distance Liverpool-Stansted Airport service with 170s (with occasional 323s on Liverpool-Birmingham).
During this time hardly any electric trains ran between Wolverhampton and Stafford (XC had gone Voyager, Central to 170s), but eventually sanity returned with 350s and VT's increased use of Pendolinos on Scottish services.

Franchise remapping was all the rage in the SRA years, but they have become ossified since as DfT policy has worked against it.
In GWR and GA-land, the "one operator" principle seems to have produced more integrated services.
But Liverpool has 7 TOCs, all with different operational and business priorities.
GBR, or whatever it turns into, might integrate services better, who knows.
Then you have to add HS2 services, and then NPR...

 

[jfollows]

That would explain something which I swear I saw around the end of May 1990 in Cardiff. I distinctly remember seeing a 37 hauling MkI coaches heading for Liverpool.

1M00 05:03 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
1M74 13:30 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
both SX and SO
1M57 14:10 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 + Sun
1V78 09:14 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
1V89 17:15 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
both SX and SO again
1V61 19:19 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 + Sun
Probably 165 tonnes with either class 33 or class 37, 5 coaches

 

[nw1]

1M00 05:03 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
1M74 13:30 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
both SX and SO
1M57 14:10 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 + Sun
1V78 09:14 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
1V89 17:15 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
both SX and SO again
1V61 19:19 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 + Sun
Probably 165 tonnes with either class 33 or class 37, 5 coaches

Thanks for that - I think it would certainly have been 1M74.

 

[jfollows]

Not much use for the booked 100mph stock on the Cardiff-Liverpool services either, at least not by 1990, because the diesel engine worked the stock throughout. A few years earlier would have seen a locomotive change at Crewe I'm sure!

 

[Ianigsy]

Probably 165 tonnes with either class 33 or class 37, 5 coaches

Definitely 37s by 1990, although on a Monday morning 1V78 had a habit of producing a Crewe-allocated Parcels 47, perhaps for positioning reasons. I was living in Birkenhead at the time and studying in Bristol so managed to clear 37426-431 in the course of a couple of years.

 

[frodshamfella]

Technically the Crewe to Liverpool stoppers were not actually "axed". Their stops were inserted as additional stops for the Birmingham / Liverpool services (and before privatisation) some of the (now disappeared) Cardiff / Liverpool services operated by Regional Railways.
Originally about every 2 hours, those Cardiff services with some worked by Class 37s, others by 158s, alternated with Cardiff / Manchester services. They were later reduced to one (or two) per day, then none, all running instead between Cardiff and Manchester only.

Its appalling to think there is no direct service from Liverpool to anywhere in Wales...North of South, apart from the occasional Wrexham service. The Liverpool to Birmingham is like a local service doing a long distance. The stops between Runcorn and Crewe should be a local Liverpool to Crewe service as it is from Manchester.

 

[nw1]

Its appalling to think there is no direct service from Liverpool to anywhere in Wales...North of South, apart from the occasional Wrexham service. The Liverpool to Birmingham is like a local service doing a long distance. The stops between Runcorn and Crewe should be a local Liverpool to Crewe service as it is from Manchester.

That was certainly the way it always used to be in the 80s, in addition to the Liverpool-Euston and Liverpool-Birmingham (and beyond), there was a Liverpool-Crewe stopper operated with 304s. Liverpool-Birmingham would generally call only at Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford and Wolverhampton - i.e. the "IC" stops along the route.

On the minus side there was only one Birmingham every two hours. Make that hourly and you might end up with an ideal situation!

 

[childwallblues]

1M00 05:03 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
1M74 13:30 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 +
both SX and SO
1M57 14:10 Cardiff to Liverpool D280 + Sun
1V78 09:14 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
1V89 17:15 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 +
both SX and SO again
1V61 19:19 Liverpool to Cardiff D280 + Sun
Probably 165 tonnes with either class 33 or class 37, 5 coaches

Class 33 were not booked to work to Liverpool as far as I am aware. I can only recall one instance were a pair came from Manchester light engine to work a service.

 

[Ianigsy]

That was certainly the way it always used to be in the 80s, in addition to the Liverpool-Euston and Liverpool-Birmingham (and beyond), there was a Liverpool-Crewe stopper operated with 304s. Liverpool-Birmingham would generally call only at Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford and Wolverhampton - i.e. the "IC" stops along the route.

On the minus side there was only one Birmingham every two hours. Make that hourly and you might end up with an ideal situation!

The only concession was a daily Rock Ferry-Llandudno and return in the summer timetable, which disappeared with the Hooton electrification.

By the late 1980s, the network out of Liverpool had seen a lot of economies - the Euston service ran every 90 minutes and the suburban service at places like Mossley Hill had to be provided by the Crewe stopper because the all stations service on the CLC turned back at Hunts Cross for connections into Merseyrail. Things picked up in the late 1980s/early 1990s - Hartford started to gain some IC calls and the CLC stopper returned to Lime Street- but Liverpool-Birmingham was a mixture of IC services either to the West Country or the South Coast and semi-fasts using 304s and 310s.

 

[frodshamfella]

That was certainly the way it always used to be in the 80s, in addition to the Liverpool-Euston and Liverpool-Birmingham (and beyond), there was a Liverpool-Crewe stopper operated with 304s. Liverpool-Birmingham would generally call only at Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford and Wolverhampton - i.e. the "IC" stops along the route.

On the minus side there was only one Birmingham every two hours. Make that hourly and you might end up with an ideal situation!

Yes that would be good.

 

[BeijingDave]

Wasn't Sandwell & Dudley also a (heavily marketed) Intercity stop in the 80s?

 

[nw1]

Wasn't Sandwell & Dudley also a (heavily marketed) Intercity stop in the 80s?

I believe so yes. Was opened in 1984. IIRC some XC services did stop there in the 80s, particularly in the opening years, but later on (certainly by 1996 or 1997), from IC services only the Euston Wolverhampton called.

 

[hexagon789]

As I recall, the Liverpool XC HST service introduced in the 1984 changes was subject to some alteration as well.

It disappears in 1987, returns in 1988 but only running to Bristol; meanwhile the two Manchester services appear to have been withdrawn in 1988. Subsequently the Liverpool and Manchester services then both return in the early 1990s, the Liverpool now running to Penzance rather than just Plymouth.

In essence, what I'm driving at is that, there was a lot of tinkering and variation over time. The initial 1984 service pattern was fairly unchanged until 1987 when a number of alterations were made.

There then appear to have been changes almost every year since.

 

[nw1]

As I recall, the Liverpool XC HST service introduced in the 1984 changes was subject to some alteration as well.

It disappears in 1987, returns in 1988 but only running to Bristol; meanwhile the two Manchester services appear to have been withdrawn in 1988. Subsequently the Liverpool and Manchester services then both return in the early 1990s, the Liverpool now running to Penzance rather than just Plymouth.

In essence, what I'm driving at is that, there was a lot of tinkering and variation over time. The initial 1984 service pattern was fairly unchanged until 1987 when a number of alterations were made.

There then appear to have been changes almost every year since.

Thanks for that, yes I remember the 1984 Manchester and Liverpool HST services, as discussed in another thread. Interesting to hear they come and go.

Interesting that there were a lot of changes in 1987 as that's the first year I don't really recall. That said, the 1986 pattern was significantly different to 1984, e.g IIRC it was as follows:

1984 northbound Reading approx times, accurate in some cases; 1985 largely unchanged

0830 Poole-Manchester
0941 Poole-Glasgow/Edinburgh Wessex Scot
1045 Brighton-Manchester
1137 Poole-Newcastle
1337 Poole-Manchester
1440 Brighton-Manchester
1545 Portsmouth-York
1637 Poole-Liverpool

1986:

0830 Poole-Manchester/Liverpool (?) (unchanged)
0940 Portsmouth-Liverpool (the famous 1M05 reintroduced and diverted to Liverpool after 2 years absence except Summer Saturdays)
1035 Poole-Glasgow/Edinburgh Wessex Scot (delayed 1 hour)
1140 untimetabled Reading-Birmingham which (IIRC) I observed at Reading on two separate occasions, Tyseley DMU, the nature of this service has been a long-standing mystery even these forums have been unable to solve
1236 Poole-Newcastle (delayed 1 hour)
1349 Paddington-Liverpool (didn't exist in 1984)
1434 Portsmouth-Manchester (didn't exist in 1984, the best ever year under BR for Portsmouth, 2 northbounds per day)
1635 Poole-Liverpool (unchanged)

The big 1986 changes were, it appears, mostly as a result of diverting the Brightons up the WCML with loco change at Willesden (?)

Getting further into detail on XC history (1979-1986), from my piecing together of XC timetables from various sources (marshalling books on the BR Coaching Stock groups.io group, old timetables on Timetable World, own memory, and this forum!), certain eras stand out on the Reading axis:

1979-81: relatively few changes during these three years. Close to perfect clockface 2-hourly New St-Manchester (odd hour xx55) and Liverpool (even hour xx55). Additional Manchesters on top of that (around xx10 odd hours). Brightons introduced. Some Paddington-Birmingham services extended to the northwest. Mostly clockface xx50 out of Paddington, mostly alternating between Birmingham (and beyond) and Worcester. Additional Poole-Manchester. Most Birmingham-NW services, however, to and from the SW and S Wales.

1982: significant changes, perhaps a knock-on from the withdrawal of direct Paddington-Worcester services with more Paddington-Birminghams, still mostly xx50 out of Paddington but not the same hours as the preceding years. Best ever Reading-Birmingham service from 1979-86 (slightly better than hourly) with a mix of Paddingtons, Pooles, Brightons and the brand new 1105 Portsmouth-Manchester. Poole-Newcastle moved two hours earlier. Birmingham-NW frequency largely maintained with some alterations and some loss of perfect clockface. Full timetable available on Timetable World.

1983: more significant changes. introduction of clockface xx37 Reading-New Street most hours, but now with a gap at 1237. Some significant Birmingham-Manchester reductions, with some two-hour gaps. Long gap between the 1300 and 1610 contrasts with a basically hourly service for the previous 4 years. Reduction in Paddington XC services, with just 4 per day (0630, 0730, 1337 and 2018 from Reading). The famous 1M05 now forms the Portsmouth-Manchester (departing 0805). Brighton and Poole times unchanged.

1984: more significant changes, again. Loss of clockface from New Street, which has been discussed in a recent thread and was apparently down to difficulties maintaining tight connections at New Street. Paddingtons further reduced, with just the two morning services. 1M05 now becomes an 0805 Portsmouth-Poole via Reading. Introduction of Portsmouth-York afternoon service (and southbound morning service) and southbound Liverpool-Portsmouth, so Portsmouth gets two southbound XCs for the first time. Introduction of the famous "Wessex Scot", which would last right up to Operation Princess.

1985: little change, but a number of services become diesel-hauled throughout, without the loco change at New Street. I wonder if this was related to transfer of some 86s to Liverpool St-Norwich?

1986: significant changes again (see above) driven largely by Brighton diversions up the WCML, I believe.

So yes, very frequent changes year-on-year during this period, with only the 1979 and 1984 timetables lasting basically more than a year (with tweaks).

If anyone can provide similar summaries for the few years or so after that without too much effort, it would be interesting to see!

A fair amount of stability was, however, provided during the immediate pre-Virgin and early Virgin years, with tweaks and additions but with the basic structure of services through Reading, including stock (47-hauled or HST, loco change at New Street or not) largely unchanged year on year.

 

[jfollows]

The big 1986 changes were, it appears, mostly as a result of diverting the Brightons up the WCML with loco change at Willesden (?)

Mitre Bridge Junction, yes.
I had a day out once, something like
1O74 12:15 Manchester Piccadilly to Mitre Bridge Junction 15:48 (to Brighton)
Class 86 released to Stonebridge Park, then back again.
1M31 19:52 Mitre Bridge Junction to Manchester (from Dover)
Much better service than anything today (between south London and Manchester, for example), but I don't think they loaded well and there's more reason for them to trundle via Reading, Oxford and Birmingham (although a subset of the services went via Birmingham).

 

[nw1]

Mitre Bridge Junction, yes.
I had a day out once, something like
1O74 12:15 Manchester Piccadilly to Mitre Bridge Junction 15:48 (to Brighton)
Class 86 released to Stonebridge Park, then back again.
1M31 19:52 Mitre Bridge Junction to Manchester (from Dover)
Much better service than anything today (between south London and Manchester, for example), but I don't think they loaded well and there's more reason for them to trundle via Reading, Oxford and Birmingham (although a subset of the services went via Birmingham).

Yes, that name sounds familiar.

Fully described on 1s76.com of course, the 1986 timetable was the best ever from Brighton in BR days and also featured Kent services, as you say. An interesting innovation (though it had the downside of more gaps at Reading as you say, which the mystery 1140 DMU was presumably a last minute gap-plugging service as without it, there would have been northbound gaps at both 11xx and 15xx). I recall seeing some of these services at East Croydon in 1986.

 

[jfollows]

Yes, that name sounds familiar.

Fully described on 1s76.com of course, the 1986 timetable was the best ever from Brighton in BR days and also featured Kent services, as you say. An interesting innovation (though it had the downside of more gaps at Reading). I recall seeing some of these services at East Croydon in 1986.

Just past Willesden West London Junction on the line towards Kensington Olympia, there was (is?) a level crossing and engine release/run-round facilities.
See https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blo...tern (South) Sectional Appendix June 2023.pdf
Level Crossing still there!