Remaining Effects of Covid

[DustyBin]

Exactly, they were completely pointless in the first place, especially between back to back seats in an otherwise open coach. Like many other things, they were a placebo to try to reassure visitors the venue was ‘Covid safe’, whatever that meant.

To me they completely ruin the experience of travelling in historic rolling stock and they take away the whole atmosphere that preserved railways are supposed to recreate.

I completely agree.

 

[Peter Sarf]

They weren’t……

Well.... They (the screens) were needed for one/more off :-
1) Needed and effective,
2) Incorrectly assumed to be needed,
3) Merely just a reassurance to help keep ridership levels up.
One way or another they have probably fulfilled their purpose but is anyone brave enough to remove them ?. - I think the answer is no sadly.

Are you talking about the UK, because (IMO) it's been unusual to see masks for a long time.

I saw 3 people wearing masks in a car last week and I thought it a bit strange - they then proceeded to park next to a van, steal the tools from it and drive off!

Yes I have found myself surprised when I see someone wearing masks - getting very rare now. I usually feel the person wearing a mask is vulnerable to infection or maybe insecure in some way. So it feels like I should give them breathing space.

You don't live in Croydon do you .

 

[bearhugger]

Yes I have found myself surprised when I see someone wearing masks - getting very rare now. I usually feel the person wearing a mask is vulnerable to infection or maybe insecure in some way. So it feels like I should give them breathing space.

Pun intended?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Pun intended?

Boom Boom, well spotted, no pun intended - though why I don't know !.

 

[nw1]

But it's one report, these can be biased and pick out what suits them. I work with younger people and lockdowns had a significant effect on their mental health.

Not just younger people either. I do feel the second and third lockdown in particular were actioned by Boris and co without considering their effect on people's mental health, particularly over the grim winter months. Not sure what happened to the politicians' "no more lockdown" promises in summer 2020, when we knew what we were dealing with and the long-term effects of lockdown were starting to be realised.

In contrast to the concern over Covid, a brutally Darwinian approach seemed to be adopted regarding mental health.

 

[DustyBin]

Not just younger people either. I do feel the second and third lockdown in particular were actioned by Boris and co without considering their effect on mental health, particularly over the grim winter months.

Very much so.

 

[Richard Scott]

Not just younger people either. I do feel the second and third lockdown in particular were actioned by Boris and co without considering their effect on people's mental health, particularly over the grim winter months. Not sure what happened to the politicians' "no more lockdown" promises in summer 2020, when we knew what we were dealing with and the long-term effects of lockdown were starting to be realised.

In contrast to the concern over Covid, a brutally Darwinian approach seemed to be adopted regarding mental health.

Absolutely, totally agree.

 

[philosopher]

Not just younger people either. I do feel the second and third lockdown in particular were actioned by Boris and co without considering their effect on people's mental health, particularly over the grim winter months. Not sure what happened to the politicians' "no more lockdown" promises in summer 2020, when we knew what we were dealing with and the long-term effects of lockdown were starting to be realised.

In contrast to the concern over Covid, a brutally Darwinian approach seemed to be adopted regarding mental health.

I remember at the time whenever anyone raised concerns about the negative mental health aspect of lockdowns, the reply was typically ‘but people are resilient’. This to me at the time seemed a way of attempting to justify ignoring the mental health aspect of lockdowns.

If lockdowns have had a significant impact on people’s mental health then clearly the people are resilient argument was wrong, at least for some people.

 

[350401]

What was also overlooked by the government and the media was the massive mental health impact of the constant speculation of whether we we going into lockdown. This was especially prevalent in both Autumn 20 and 21; in 2021 it was even worse as it was post vaccine roll out. It made me think that this would happen every single winter going forward, and that the vaccine was pointless - especially as the government kept emphasising that the vaccine was the "way out". Thankfully the government largely held its nerve thanks to the Tory Backbench, but at the time I thought we were staring down the barrel of having a lockdown, or at least calls for lockdown, every winter.

 

[nw1]

What was also overlooked by the government and the media was the massive mental health impact of the constant speculation of whether we we going into lockdown. This was especially prevalent in both Autumn 20 and 21; in 2021 it was even worse as it was post vaccine roll out. It made me think that this would happen every single winter going forward, and that the vaccine was pointless - especially as the government kept emphasising that the vaccine was the "way out". Thankfully the government largely held its nerve thanks to the Tory Backbench, but at the time I thought we were staring down the barrel of having a lockdown, or at least calls for lockdown, every winter.

The Winter 21/22 stuff was particularly unnerving, I agree. Unnecessary, too, given the vaccine roll-out and Omicron being less severe. Certainly the panic over Omicron was completely and utterly ridiculous. In the event very little happened with Omicron which we don't see in a bad flu season, apart from a good few people's Christmases being ruined.

I do remember reading some stories about "travel restrictions until 2025" or some such in around December 2021, presumably testing rather than outright travel bans.

And then, quite suddenly, all restrictions, or talks of restrictions, seemed to disappear, the western world over, in the latter part of winter 21/22.

 

[ainsworth74]

Certainly the panic over Omicron was completely and utterly ridiculous.

Yes as someone who skipped a couple of events at that time, one does feel a little silly in hindsight! Not that I'd describe myself as having panicked, probably just overreacted.

 

[nw1]

Yes as someone who skipped a couple of events at that time, one does feel a little silly in hindsight! Not that I'd describe myself as having panicked, probably just overreacted.

It's more (IMO) that the government and the media overreacted and caused panic, rather than private individuals as such.

There were plenty saying Omicron was considerably less severe which made it strange to see the government and media tying themselves up in knots about it. It just didn't seem to make sense - but was enough to engender uncertainty in people and make them fearful of socialising, as you say - for fear of a positive test result, more than anything else, it seemed.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The blatantly ignored the information coming out of South Africa about Omicron, they’re frenzy for power and hanging on to it clouded sanity

 

[Bantamzen]

Oh boy, IndySage are sabre rattling again...

New Covid variant could have us 'masking up again', scientists warn

Scientists have called for people to start wearing face masks again amid a worrying Covid-19 variant 'mutation'.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

A Covid-19 variant 'mutation' called Eris has led to certain scientists calling for the return of face masks.


Latest data shows the Omicron subvariant now accounts for 1 in 10 Covid cases - while the number of people recorded with the virus jumped from an estimated 3.3 per 100,000 to 7.2 in the space of less than a month.
But a brand new sub-strain, which has not yet been formally named but is referred to as 'BA.6', has fueled fears that echoes from 2020 may be around the corner.

While it has only been found in two countries so far, Denmark and Israel, one expert has claimed the new sub-strain is already showing an alarming tendency to mutate and alleges it has left a number of her peers concerned - prompting calls for masks.
Dr Trisha Greenhalgh, a primary healthcare expert at the University of Oxford, wrote on Twitter: "My various science WhatsApp groups are buzzing. Genetic lineage clips and diagrams flying back and forth. I understand little of the detail but it looks like it's once again time to MASK UP."

Professor Christina Pagel, a mathematician from University College London who is a sitting member on the Independent SAGE group, meanwhile said on the social media platform that it was "very very early days" but conceded that the variant has "LOT of new mutations that makes it v different to previous Omicron strains". She added that this meant it was "potentially more able to cause a big wave", as per the Mirror.
In an opinion piece in the British Medical Journal on Tuesday, the professor stated that it was "reasonably certain that we have entered another Covid-19 wave" - though stressed it was "unlikely that this wave will cause a large surge in hospital admissions or deaths" because of the UK's high rate of vaccinations.


She added that one of her main fears was that Covid infections could create strain on the NHS by occurring at the same time as influenza infection and respiratory syncytial virus, as seen last winter.

Professor Pagel said there was also the "less likely" scenario of a new, undiscovered variant emerging, which could overwhelm people's existing resistance to the virus.

No official guidance for face masks has been issued by government or public health authorities in the UK, and the legal requirement to wear a face covering ended on January 27, 2022.

They just don't want to give up on mask compulsion, it has literally become a cult for IndySage and it's rapidly shrinking fan base.

Two words to them. The second one is off....

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have nothing against masks if they either protect me or if I'm protecting others because I've got the sniffles, but I am more than a bit fed up with the selection of amateur dramatics that would like us to lock down the moment somebody sneezes more than twice on the bus. If there's one thing I'd like them to do about covid now it is to make vaccines available in high Street pharmacies for a small charge to anyone over the age of 10 years old who wants to top up their immunity. I would certainly do one if offered

 

[VauxhallandI]

There was a time that someone wandering around with a mask would be treated as a suspicious character, alas not anymore.

Which help characters like this piece of scum

Clapham stabbing: New images released of homophobic attack suspect

Two men were taken to hospital after being stabbed outside a nightclub in south London.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC article with picture of Clapham homophonic attack suspect

 

[Bungle73]

I suppose so much was spent on the screens that everyone is loathe to remove them.

Time will help people forget why they were needed but I fear it will take a while. Compare to hand sanitisers where many I try to use are empty but no one will remove them ! - I am fed up with pressing a button/lever that many before me have touched for no benefit. Reassurance trumps aethetics.

I see a lot less masks in use these days, getting unusual.

It's a bit odd tbh, as they never had such screens on the "proper" railway, and the businesses that did have them (pubs etc.) have all ditched them ages ago.

Oh boy, IndySage are sabre rattling again...

New Covid variant could have us 'masking up again', scientists warn

Scientists have called for people to start wearing face masks again amid a worrying Covid-19 variant 'mutation'.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

They just don't want to give up on mask compulsion, it has literally become a cult for IndySage and it's rapidly shrinking fan base.

Two words to them. The second one is off....

This "we need to bring back masks" thing appears to have become an annual thing to trot out, going into the winter, for certain sections of the media...

 

[DustyBin]

There was a time that someone wandering around with a mask would be treated as a suspicious character, alas not anymore.

Which help characters like this piece of scum

Clapham stabbing: New images released of homophobic attack suspect

Two men were taken to hospital after being stabbed outside a nightclub in south London.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC article with picture of Clapham homophonic attack suspect

I genuinely believe that an unintended consequence of the mask charade is an increased acceptance of people covering their faces. Funnily enough, although it wasn’t our primary concern at the time, quite a few of us predicted that this would happen.

 

[nw1]

Oh boy, IndySage are sabre rattling again...

New Covid variant could have us 'masking up again', scientists warn

Scientists have called for people to start wearing face masks again amid a worrying Covid-19 variant 'mutation'.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

So if it's "unlikely that this wave will cause a large surge in hospital admissions or deaths" because of the UK's high rate of vaccinations" why even get neurotic about it?

We absolutely cannot afford to go into panic mode every time there might be a new Sars-Cov-2 wave with mild symptoms. Aren't there more important things to worry about in the world? Do they understand, or care about, the consequences of constantly being afraid of Covid until the end of time?

What is the motivation behind this? Why do some people seem to be continually causing alarm over Covid long after it ceased to be dangerous for most of us?

Maybe these people should pressurise Sunak into funding the NHS properly and making it fit for purpose instead of constantly stirring up panic about Covid.

 

[bahnause]

So if it's "unlikely that this wave will cause a large surge in hospital admissions or deaths" because of the UK's high rate of vaccinations" why even get neurotic about it?

We absolutely cannot afford to go into panic mode every time there might be a new Sars-Cov-2 wave with mild symptoms. Aren't there more important things to worry about in the world? Do they understand, or care about, the consequences of constantly being afraid of Covid until the end of time?

COVID-19 reinfections could be taking a toll on some important organ systems. That risk applies to both short-term and long-term health effects

People who had more than one COVID-19 infection were three times more likely to be hospitalized and twice as likely to die than those who only had one infection. Those with multiple infections were also more vulnerable to other dangerous conditions; they were 3.5 times more likely to develop lung problems, 3 times more likely to have heart conditions, and 1.6 times more likely to have brain changes requiring care than people who had only had COVID-19 once.

Tht's not what I'd call "mild".

 

[nw1]

COVID-19 reinfections could be taking a toll on some important organ systems. That risk applies to both short-term and long-term health effects

People who had more than one COVID-19 infection were three times more likely to be hospitalized and twice as likely to die than those who only had one infection. Those with multiple infections were also more vulnerable to other dangerous conditions; they were 3.5 times more likely to develop lung problems, 3 times more likely to have heart conditions, and 1.6 times more likely to have brain changes requiring care than people who had only had COVID-19 once.

Tht's not what I'd call "mild".

Is there good evidence for this, though, and even if so, is it worth the economic damage and mental health effects caused by being afraid of Covid for all time?

I suspect most, in 2023, would say No.

It really is time to forget about Covid and move on. If we don't, much more damage will be caused than if we do.

Since Covid, you can't easily see a doctor in the UK. Many of us have lost affordable NHS dentistry. And operations have been postponed. People have suffered profound mental health effects.

Is it really worth living under the constant threat of restrictions for all time?

I suspect more people will die of car accidents than Covid-related effects in coming years, and no-one is (quite rightly!) calling for severe restrictions on car use. There's a need for balance and a recognition that life has risks, and trying to shield us from all risks causes more harm than it does good.

 

[bahnause]

Is there good evidence for this, though, and even if so, is it worth the economic damage and mental health effects caused by being afraid of Covid for all time?

I'm glad you mentioned that. You can find the evidence here (one of quite a few):
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection

I am now looking forward to you presenting the evidence on the economic and mental effects of "being afraid of covid".

 

[nw1]

I'm glad you mentioned that. You can find the evidence here (one of quite a few):
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection

I am now looking forward to you presenting the evidence on the economic and mental effects of "being afraid of covid".

The cost of living crisis, perhaps, triggered by various things but with lockdown being one causative factor?

People going out less and spending less money in venues, perhaps?

As for mental health issues, will personal experience, and the experience of people I know, do it for you?

 

[yorksrob]

I'm glad you mentioned that. You can find the evidence here (one of quite a few):
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection

I am now looking forward to you presenting the evidence on the economic and mental effects of "being afraid of covid".

From the first paragraph of the quoted document:

"First infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is associated with increased risk of acute and postacute death and sequelae in various organ systems. Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear."

The words "severe acute" suggest that this is not referring to the sort of covid infection the majority of vaccinated people catch now.

 

[DustyBin]

I'm glad you mentioned that. You can find the evidence here (one of quite a few):
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection

From your “evidence”:

“Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear.”

So, as @nw1 said, it’s alarmist nonsense put out by attention-seeking cranks.

Thanks for making the point for us!

I am now looking forward to you presenting the evidence on the economic and mental effects of "being afraid of covid".

Some people clearly are afraid of covid, although a far greater number are afraid of covid restrictions.

From the first paragraph of the quoted document:

"First infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is associated with increased risk of acute and postacute death and sequelae in various organ systems. Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear."

The words "severe acute" suggest that this is not referring to the sort of covid infection the majority of vaccinated people catch now.

Or unvaccinated.

 

[bahnause]

From the first paragraph of the quoted document:

"First infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is associated with increased risk of acute and postacute death and sequelae in various organ systems. Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear."

The words "severe acute" suggest that this is not referring to the sort of covid infection the majority of vaccinated people catch now.

From your “evidence”:



So, as @nw1 said, it’s alarmist nonsense put out by attention-seeking cranks.

Thanks for making the point for us!
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...5446&CJEVENT=77ffd0f53ccc11ee832700360a18ba72

You relly need to learn how to read a study.

The first paragraph describes the problem. It says nothing about the detailed execution of the study. The detailed methodology is described below in the text.

Problem: We don't know if reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection.
Solution: We gather information and draw a conclusion.

"Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear" Is not the answer, it is the question.

Nowhere in the study does it say that all participants had a severe initial infection.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm glad you mentioned that. You can find the evidence here (one of quite a few):
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection

I am now looking forward to you presenting the evidence on the economic and mental effects of "being afraid of covid".

So in short what this is saying is that if someone gets a case of covid, then there is a risk of complications. Just like when my late sister contracted a case of influenza she developed complications and died as a result. Or when someone gets injuries as a result of an accident there is is a risk of further complications? Or maybe someone gets an insect bite, or brushes up against certain type of flora? You may think you are bringing something new to the table, but you are not. We have spent over 3 years on various threads debating all of this, it's all there for you to go back over and review.

I'm not quite sure where you are heading with this, but I'm hoping its not a severe case of "this is why we need forever restrictions" because the consequences of that have been demonstrated in real life conditions. And I can assure you most of the world can't afford that again.

 

[yorksrob]

You relly need to learn how to read a study.

The first paragraph describes the problem. It says nothing about the detailed execution of the study. The detailed methodology is described below in the text.

Problem: We don't know if reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection.
Solution: We gather information and draw a conclusion.

"Whether reinfection adds to risks incurred after first infection is unclear" Is not the answer, ist is the question.

Nowhere in the study does it say that all participants had a severe initial infection.

As it happens I've had several vaccinations as well as at least one bout of the virus itself. I will continue to take the sensible precautions that I do with any common cold virus and accept any risks associated, as most of the rest of the country appears to be doing.

 

[bahnause]

So in short what this is saying is that if someone gets a case of covid, then there is a risk of complications.

Not quite. The point is that with each infection with Covid, the risk of complications increases.

 

[Bantamzen]

Not quite. The point is that with each infection with Covid, the risk of complications increases.

And is that true of only covid, or is it true of all infections? Moreover what exactly are you proposing been done?