December 2023 Timetable Change

[lammergeier]

Very few changes that I can see on XC, certainly doesn't look like there's an increase in the Doncaster services unfortunately. Not surprising, however, with the imminent withdrawal of HST's.

 

[Some guy]

I’ve noticed the Liverpool to Blackpool services have been retimed to 39 to increase journey time to 1 hour 15 minutes. Still a shame the Windermere services are poorly pathed yet again

 

[devon_belle]

Hoping for Sunday service Dorking to Horsham... Not optimistic!

 

[PGAT]

Hoping for Sunday service Dorking to Horsham... Not optimistic!

Nope, never happening

 

[devon_belle]

Nope, never happening

Never for a reason?

I guess we'll keep driving then...

 

[Jan Mayen]

Why never? It used to have fast trains to the coast.
On the subject if GTR, I notice the Garwick Airport to Victoria shuttles haven't reappeared.8p

 

[Sussex Ben]

I note that peak Brighton to Cambridge services have gained Preston Park and Hassocks stops. I assume this is to even out loadings between these and the Bedfords, however it does mean that Brighton loses its ‘faster’ service with journey times extended by 5mins.

The 17:33 London Bridge to Littlehampton also retains its novelty calling pattern between Haywards Heath and Hove, but I guess you can’t win them all

 

[PGAT]

9tph at Preston Park feels a bit overkill

 

[IrishDave]

I note that peak Brighton to Cambridge services have gained Preston Park and Hassocks stops. I assume this is to even out loadings between these and the Bedfords, however it does mean that Brighton loses its ‘faster’ service with journey times extended by 5mins.

Only in peak hours - off-peak Brighton-Cambridge trains retain their faster calling pattern. This is broadly just a reversion to the situation pre-Dec 22 - I was quite surprised when they took those stops out in Dec 22, to be honest, and as one who likes to use Brighton in the morning peak but Preston Park in the evening peak I'm quite pleased to have the extra stops back!

The 17:33 London Bridge to Littlehampton also retains its novelty calling pattern between Haywards Heath and Hove, but I guess you can’t win them all

Is the 17:33 still as quiet now as when it was a 12-car 700? I confess I haven't tried it since it went to Southern - I assume it's an 8-car 377 now?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Is the 17:33 still as quiet now as when it was a 12-car 700?

No, as it actually runs now.

 

[shakermaker_86]

Hoping for Sunday service Dorking to Horsham... Not optimistic!

It is a bit ridiculous that there's not even a few trains on a Sunday on this route, or after 6:30 on a Saturday. Even if the primary motivator to run a service on Sundays isn't necessarily to serve the smaller villages of Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham, at the very least a service is warranted to connect the two decent sized market towns of Horsham and Dorking which I'm sure have plenty of people travelling between them, with the 3 smaller stations benefiting from.

 

[Sussex Ben]

Is the 17:33 still as quiet now as when it was a 12-car 700? I confess I haven't tried it since it went to Southern - I assume it's an 8-car 377 now?

It’s an 8-car 387 now. Definitely busier since transferring to Southern as it’s very rarely cancelled now. Seems to act more as a relief to the 1735 Thameslink with a significant number of passengers having got off by Haywards Heath. I can’t comment on how busy it is along the coast as that’s also where I get off.

 

[Vexed]

Couple more peak extras for Thameslink benefiting the MML.
0715 Bedford - Three Bridges and 1653 Gatwick Airport - Bedford.

 

[43055]

Glad to see some of the missing services back on the North Staffs (Derby - Crewe) on weekdays. Although these services are marked as 'runs as required'. Does that mean I have to book it like one of those demand response buses or is there still a chance they won't run as I notice the replacement bus is still in for the 1645 ex Derby.

 

[PGAT]

It is a bit ridiculous that there's not even a few trains on a Sunday on this route, or after 6:30 on a Saturday. Even if the primary motivator to run a service on Sundays isn't necessarily to serve the smaller villages of Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham, at the very least a service is warranted to connect the two decent sized market towns of Horsham and Dorking which I'm sure have plenty of people travelling between them, with the 3 smaller stations benefiting from.

It wouldn't even demand much more resources, just one more diagram. Although the precedent that has been set for at least 50 years is certainly not changing in a time of budget cuts

 

[Bletchleyite]

Glad to see some of the missing services back on the North Staffs (Derby - Crewe) on weekdays. Although these services are marked as 'runs as required'. Does that mean I have to book it like one of those demand response buses or is there still a chance they won't run as I notice the replacement bus is still in for the 1645 ex Derby.

"Runs as required" would allow them to reinstate it but means it probably won't be reinstated at the start. It's sort of reserving a path.

 

[Peter0124]

Avanti and Scotrail are now in!

 

[OliverH68]

Merseyrail, Chiltern and TfW also available tonight.

 

[A S Leib]

Still no reinstatement of northbound Highlander calls at Watford Junction. Granted, the fact that the southbound one didn't call immediately before the pandemic (at least not in the unused May 2020 timetables - when was the last time, if ever, it did call at Watford Junction?*) means that its removal probably doesn't inconvenience tons of people, but it's still slightly annoying, as is Avanti services still planned on being the Preston via Birmingham services before 15:00 but then mostly the Birmingham terminators (1 Shrewsbury, 5 Birminghams, 3 Wolverhamptons) in the afternoon and evening (plus a late evening Trent Valley service to Manchester and Preston). Granted, it's an upgrade from just having Birmingham services and a few peak extras, but the inconsistency's not brilliant.

*The only physical WCML timetable I have to hand's 1985-6, which had the earlier Inverness, Stranraer, Glasgow via Dumfries and one more or less matching the current Lowlander calling at Watford Junction northbound and the Inverness via Coatbridge and Manchester / Liverpool not. As far as I can tell the southbound ones skipping Watford Junction then were the Manchester / Liverpool and Holyhead.

 

[shakermaker_86]

It wouldn't even demand much more resources, just one more diagram. Although the precedent that has been set for at least 50 years is certainly not changing in a time of budget cuts

Agreed, didnt expect to see it added in this or the next few timetables, but seems like a relatively easy and welcome addition. Even if it's just a few of the existing services that finish at Dorking being extended to Horsham e.g. 1 train per 2 hours between 9 and 6 on a Sunday I'm sure that would be easy to do and give some useful connectivity between Horsham and Dorking.

 

[ayubdaud]

Are we not having any warnings not to rely on these uploads like we had last year, as things can change?

The TPE one will probably be unreliable, as what will be uploaded will be what was bid earlier in the year, not reflecting any possible "recovery" timetable.

TPE would have been uploaded already, given that their TPS code is [EA]. So whenever they get uploaded should be accurate.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Interesting to see Transport for Wales have scheduled a half hourly Bidston - Wrexham service from December.

 

[jamieintercity]

Scotrail changes look interesting on the eastern side of scotland. My local station, carnoustie has now a off peak service to/from Aberdeen/glasgow QST (calling at the likes of laurencekirk/portlethen/monifieth/broughty ferry). Presumably to allow some off peak dundee to arbroath services to be withdrawn (maybe to do with the 158s/170s to be used on the levenmouth railway?

Meanwhile, the fife circle is changing. Perth to Edinburgh services run via kirkcaldy all stations but no direct kirkcaldy to glenrothes/cowdenbeath. Presumably this is to allow some 158s/170s to be set aside for driver training on the levenmouth railway next year

 

[MKJai]

Seems there is no change in Avanti? Does it mean the 805s are not ready?

 

[Baz2000]

Hi all have you a link for the new timetables as i cant find one please, for Avanti west coast , west midlands/lnw & cross country trains, thanks in advance.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Merseyrail services also showing as running between Headbolt Lane and Liverpool Central.

 

[JonathanH]

Hi all have you a link for the new timetables as i cant find one please, for Avanti west coast , west midlands/lnw & cross country trains, thanks in advance.

People are reporting what is in open data feeds, not in published timetables.

For example, this is the service currently shown at Birmingham New Street on 14 December https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...23-12-14/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[The Planner]

Seems there is no change in Avanti? Does it mean the 805s are not ready?

Not for Dec23, no.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems there is no change in Avanti? Does it mean the 805s are not ready?

In any event, 805s are just taking over existing services.

 

[hexagon789]

Scotrail changes look interesting on the eastern side of scotland. My local station, carnoustie has now a off peak service to/from Aberdeen/glasgow QST (calling at the likes of laurencekirk/portlethen/monifieth/broughty ferry). Presumably to allow some off peak dundee to arbroath services to be withdrawn (maybe to do with the 158s/170s to be used on the levenmouth railway?

Meanwhile, the fife circle is changing. Perth to Edinburgh services run via kirkcaldy all stations but no direct kirkcaldy to glenrothes/cowdenbeath. Presumably this is to allow some 158s/170s to be set aside for driver training on the levenmouth railway next year

It looks as though every second Glasgow to Aberdeen each way calls additional at Broughty Ferry, Monifieth and Carnoustie adding 6-12 mins. Plus there are selected calls at Laurencekirk.

Other changes I can see in the West are:

Cathcart Circle back to hourly all day.
Shotts line semi-fasts back.