London Buses Discussion

[MotCO]

From London bus net (londonbusroutes.net), route SL9. The same site on the service changes page shows the 698 crosslink is being removed, does this mean something? Or is it just to ensure a non Superloop branded bus goes on it?
Timetable:

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/SL09full.pdf

Yes, that's right. It seems to be a heinous crime to put a Superloop bus on anything other than an 'SL' route. This means the SL6 (formerX68) has buses laying over during the day at Waterloo RA base - somewhat of a waste of resources in my eyes.

I wonder if the reverse is true - can a non-Superloop bus appear on an 'SL' route once all Superloop buses are branded?

 

[Statto]

Yes, that's right. It seems to be a heinous crime to put a Superloop bus on anything other than an 'SL' route. This means the SL6 (formerX68) has buses laying over during the day at Waterloo RA base - somewhat of a waste of resources in my eyes.

I wonder if the reverse is true - can a non-Superloop bus appear on an 'SL' route once all Superloop buses are branded?

Agreed, SL6 will have buses doing one single journey, as only the first 2 buses each peak operate the last 2 journey's

Here's a link to the TFL site for the working timetable for the SL6

Bus schedules

Search for a bus route number to find schedules for that route

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Busaholic]

From London bus net (londonbusroutes.net), route SL9. The same site on the service changes page shows the 698 crosslink is being removed, does this mean something? Or is it just to ensure a non Superloop branded bus goes on it?

Service changes

londonbusroutes.net

Timetable:

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/SL09full.pdf

So the SL9 gets the 5 bph day, 4 bph evenings service pre-advertised for the proper Superloop, but the SL7 doesn't yet. When will it come, and will it need one or two extra buses compared to the timetable just introduced (I'm assuming no running time cuts)?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

I wonder if the reverse is true - can a non-Superloop bus appear on an 'SL' route once all Superloop buses are branded?

Be ridiculous not to be able to.

 

[johncrossley]

So the SL9 gets the 5 bph day, 4 bph evenings service pre-advertised for the proper Superloop, but the SL7 doesn't yet. When will it come, and will it need one or two extra buses compared to the timetable just introduced (I'm assuming no running time cuts)?

Is the SL7 supposed to have a further frequency increase? Every 15 all day every day is already exceptionally good. Making it every 12 minutes would mean they can run it as a frequent service and maintain headways instead of sticking to the timetable.

 

[PGAT]

Is the SL7 supposed to have a further frequency increase? Every 15 all day every day is already exceptionally good. Making it every 12 minutes would mean they can run it as a frequent service and maintain headways instead of sticking to the timetable.

I don't think there are any plans to increase the frequency

 

[Busaholic]

I don't think there are any plans to increase the frequency

In which case it'll be the only one of the true Superloop inter-connectors to not have that frequency, which is strange given that it's a proven success, unlike the untried ones!I would like to hear what the 'reasoning' was for that decision, if it be so.

 

[PGAT]

I think the 'reasoning' is that there isn't quite the demand for such the distance, although I haven't yet been on the SL7 to see how well they load yet

 

[johncrossley]

The SL7 has bigger gaps between stops than the other express routes. From Kingston to Hatton Cross there is only one intermediate stop. Whereas the X140 and SL8 still stop quite frequently, about every 3-5 minutes. So the SL7 is somewhat different in style in that respect and therefore "competes" less with the stopping services along the way. The 131 and 213 still run every 12 minutes or better even on Sunday nights and as far as we know there is no plan to cut those frequencies even though the SL7 is almost as frequent now. By contrast, some of the parallel routes to the forthcoming express routes will see some frequency reductions because abstraction is expected.

 

[Busaholic]

The SL7 has bigger gaps between stops than the other express routes. From Kingston to Hatton Cross there is only one intermediate stop. Whereas the X140 and SL8 still stop quite frequently, about every 3-5 minutes. So the SL7 is somewhat different in style in that respect and therefore "competes" less with the stopping services along the way. The 131 and 213 still run every 12 minutes or better even on Sunday nights and as far as we know there is no plan to cut those frequencies even though the SL7 is almost as frequent now. By contrast, some of the parallel routes to the forthcoming express routes will see some frequency reductions because abstraction is expected.

OK, I await the other routes with great interest. I'm not really including the SL8 in this argument, just the true components of the loop concept. Do you know why there is only one stop between Kingston and Hatton Cross? Is it because routeing variations are allowed because of traffic conditions? The last time I made that journey was on a Green Line 726, an RF to boot!

 

[johncrossley]

OK, I await the other routes with great interest. I'm not really including the SL8 in this argument, just the true components of the loop concept. Do you know why there is only one stop between Kingston and Hatton Cross? Is it because routeing variations are allowed because of traffic conditions? The last time I made that journey was on a Green Line 726, an RF to boot!

Several stops were removed when the 726 was renumbered X26 in 2005. The 726 used to stop in Feltham, Hanworth and Hampton Court. TfL had little interest in express services at the time and wanted to cut the cost of this route to the minimum despite huge investment in buses generally during those boom years. TfL thought then that stopping services were better value.

 

[Goldfish62]

Several stops were removed when the 726 was renumbered X26 in 2005. The 726 used to stop in Feltham, Hanworth and Hampton Court. TfL had little interest in express services at the time and wanted to cut the cost of this route to the minimum despite huge investment in buses generally during those boom years. TfL thought then that stopping services were better value.

In respect of Feltham there's a huge time saving by missing it out. Plus there's good bus priority most of the way between Feltham Station and Hatton Cross so journeys times are pretty good on the "normal" services in any case.

 

[MasterSpenny]

You know the last mobility route (969), is it operated on the same contract as the H25 now?

 

[Edsmith]

OK, I await the other routes with great interest. I'm not really including the SL8 in this argument, just the true components of the loop concept. Do you know why there is only one stop between Kingston and Hatton Cross? Is it because routeing variations are allowed because of traffic conditions? The last time I made that journey was on a Green Line 726, an RF to boot!

Probably a 725 if it was an RF.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

It was not uncommon for the X26 to use the deviation via Plough Lane, Wallington, to leave/rejoin the A232 at Beddington when there was traffic congestion around the Purley Way shops at Waddon, so SL7 will surely do the same. Strange that this has been mapped as the normal route though. Flexibilty to use alternate routes was one reason given why a stop would not be provided at Beddington 'Plough' when the X26 replaced the 726.

It's also been known to use the 119 route between Five Ways and Croydon town centre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

Have they considered hydrogen buses for some of the longer routes like the X26/SL7?

Presumably they wouldn't be allowed through the tunnel at Heathrow?

 

[MotCO]

Probably a 725 if it was an RF

The original 726 (the offshoot of the 725) did see RFs on it, substituting for an SMA

 

[PGAT]

On a different note, does anyone know what’s up with the 407? I’ve gone past it in the past few days and they’ve all terminated at Purley instead of Caterham.

 

[Goldfish62]

On a different note, does anyone know what’s up with the 407? I’ve gone past it in the past few days and they’ve all terminated at Purley instead of Caterham.

Service is split in two due to the closure of Godstone Road until 3rd September.

 

[PGAT]

Service is split in two due to the closure of Godstone Road until 3rd September.

Cheers

 

[AJW12]

In respect of Feltham there's a huge time saving by missing it out. Plus there's good bus priority most of the way between Feltham Station and Hatton Cross so journeys times are pretty good on the "normal" services in any case.

There is a good time saving to the X26/SL7 compared to the 285 on the Kingston-Heathrow side, but I do think this is a good example of where the whole Superloop concept has sort of been rushed and glued together without enough thought.
The longest gap between stops on the X140 is about 1.6miles (excluding Heathrow-Harlington Corner as most of that is just getting out the airport). The gap between Hatton X - Teddington on the X26/SL7 is 5 miles, and goes straight through Feltham, Hanworth and Hampton Hill in some form, without stopping - whereas the X140 was designed to stop at pretty much every major bus interchange on the way. All the other routes too will have a stopping pattern more similar to the X140.

I can see how it leaves people in the three areas above feeling a bit forgotten about with the amount of SuperLoop PR being reported - at least they're not cutting the frequency of the 285 (for now).

I'd add three extra stops - one next to the crossroads at Hampton Hill (there is no stop there right now, but it would allow buses to call past without coming off the route like the 285 does), one at the existing stops at the crossroads at Hanworth (good for connecting to the 111), and one at Feltham at the Hounslow Road junction. I can't imagine this would add any more than 2-3 mins to the time so it would still be competitive, but it would bring more communities in reach of the Superloop which is a good thing since their taxes are also paying for it!

 

[Busaholic]

The original 726 (the offshoot of the 725) did see RFs on it, substituting for an SMA

I know, I was living in Beckenham at the time: later on, I had a shop by Shortlands Station when RF 202(?) was enjoying its Indian Summer at Northfleet garage. I could hear it every time it passed!

 

[MotCO]

There is a good time saving to the X26/SL7 compared to the 285 on the Kingston-Heathrow side, but I do think this is a good example of where the whole Superloop concept has sort of been rushed and glued together without enough thought.
The longest gap between stops on the X140 is about 1.6miles (excluding Heathrow-Harlington Corner as most of that is just getting out the airport). The gap between Hatton X - Teddington on the X26/SL7 is 5 miles, and goes straight through Feltham, Hanworth and Hampton Hill in some form, without stopping - whereas the X140 was designed to stop at pretty much every major bus interchange on the way. All the other routes too will have a stopping pattern more similar to the X140.

I can see how it leaves people in the three areas above feeling a bit forgotten about with the amount of SuperLoop PR being reported - at least they're not cutting the frequency of the 285 (for now).

I'd add three extra stops - one next to the crossroads at Hampton Hill (there is no stop there right now, but it would allow buses to call past without coming off the route like the 285 does), one at the existing stops at the crossroads at Hanworth (good for connecting to the 111), and one at Feltham at the Hounslow Road junction. I can't imagine this would add any more than 2-3 mins to the time so it would still be competitive, but it would bring more communities in reach of the Superloop which is a good thing since their taxes are also paying for it!


View attachment 141380

But presumably there are local buses also going to Heathrow, which would not be that much slower than the SL7 since the distance is not that far. That argument, however, does not hold for anyone trying to travel from Feltham / Hampton etc to Croydon.

 

[Busaholic]

There is a good time saving to the X26/SL7 compared to the 285 on the Kingston-Heathrow side, but I do think this is a good example of where the whole Superloop concept has sort of been rushed and glued together without enough thought.
The longest gap between stops on the X140 is about 1.6miles (excluding Heathrow-Harlington Corner as most of that is just getting out the airport). The gap between Hatton X - Teddington on the X26/SL7 is 5 miles, and goes straight through Feltham, Hanworth and Hampton Hill in some form, without stopping - whereas the X140 was designed to stop at pretty much every major bus interchange on the way. All the other routes too will have a stopping pattern more similar to the X140.

I can see how it leaves people in the three areas above feeling a bit forgotten about with the amount of SuperLoop PR being reported - at least they're not cutting the frequency of the 285 (for now).

I'd add three extra stops - one next to the crossroads at Hampton Hill (there is no stop there right now, but it would allow buses to call past without coming off the route like the 285 does), one at the existing stops at the crossroads at Hanworth (good for connecting to the 111), and one at Feltham at the Hounslow Road junction. I can't imagine this would add any more than 2-3 mins to the time so it would still be competitive, but it would bring more communities in reach of the Superloop which is a good thing since their taxes are also paying for it!


View attachment 141380

It might also placate some of the anti-Ulez people if more journeys became available to local people in those areas.

P.S. Noting the thread number, that's my odyssey.

 

[Statto]

But presumably there are local buses also going to Heathrow, which would not be that much slower than the SL7 since the distance is not that far. That argument, however, does not hold for anyone trying to travel from Feltham / Hampton etc to Croydon.

Their is, the 24 hour 285 Kingston - Heathrow, & follows most of the SL7 route, main difference to the routes are Kingston to Teddington & in Feltham, & 285 takes anything from 50 to 70 minutes end to end.

 

[TWBG]

what WDEs are going to the 297 and 83 if 113 is using them?

 

[London Trains]

I'd add three extra stops - one next to the crossroads at Hampton Hill (there is no stop there right now, but it would allow buses to call past without coming off the route like the 285 does), one at the existing stops at the crossroads at Hanworth (good for connecting to the 111), and one at Feltham at the Hounslow Road junction. I can't imagine this would add any more than 2-3 mins to the time so it would still be competitive, but it would bring more communities in reach of the Superloop which is a good thing since their taxes are also paying for it!


View attachment 141380

I think the stop at Hanworth is a good idea, but the other two are unnecessary.

The Hanworth stop would massively benefit people in Feltham anyway who could change from a 285 or 490 onto the X26/SL7 at the new Hanworth stop, as opposed to currently having to wait for a 285 then taking it all the way to Teddington (which takes a much longer route than the X26 between Hanworth and Teddington).

 

[johncrossley]

You don't want too many stops on the SL7 because of the single door operation forced on it by the downstairs luggage racks. A few more stops between Heathrow and Kingston would be OK.

 

[londonbridge]

On a different note, does anyone know what’s up with the 407? I’ve gone past it in the past few days and they’ve all terminated at Purley instead of Caterham.

I had noticed 407’s with a destination blind of Purley, stumbled across the reason why (as posted by @Goldfish62) whilst checking the TFL website for sone other info I was after. However, when I used a 407 a few days ago, ibus was still showing and announcing Caterham as the destination.

Also if you’re going to add extra stops to the SL7 between Heathrow and Kingston, I’d suggest putting one either at Hampton Sainsburys, or at the Hanworth leisure centre.

 

[TWBG]

If the 113 is using the Wright Electroliners meant for the 83 and 297, what will come to make up for the 83 and 297 routes?

 

[MasterSpenny]

If the 113 is using the Wright Electroliners meant for the 83 and 297, what will come to make up for the 83 and 297 routes?

Presumably whatever has been ordered for the 113 (before anybody asks it hasn’t been revealed yet)

Yes they are Switch Mobility MetroCity EVs, but it’s being reported over on the Londoner FB group that the charging infrastructure is having issues at LI hence the lack of electrics out today on the 339

Just hope this isn’t going to be a repeat 322 situation and almost never be fully electric

Looks like its not going this way, as 37554 and 37558 are on the 309 this afternoon
Anybody know if 39139 is going to move on or if it’s staying long term as a spare?

 

[jumble]

The SL7 has bigger gaps between stops than the other express routes. From Kingston to Hatton Cross there is only one intermediate stop. Whereas the X140 and SL8 still stop quite frequently, about every 3-5 minutes. So the SL7 is somewhat different in style in that respect and therefore "competes" less with the stopping services along the way. The 131 and 213 still run every 12 minutes or better even on Sunday nights and as far as we know there is no plan to cut those frequencies even though the SL7 is almost as frequent now. By contrast, some of the parallel routes to the forthcoming express routes will see some frequency reductions because abstraction is expected.

Is this single stop Wood Street or Broad Street Teddington?

SL7 Superloop bus route

Choose a stop to view live arrivals and status information or add to favourites

tfl.gov.uk

 

[galwhv69]

Is this single stop Wood Street or Broad Street Teddington?

SL7 Superloop bus route

Choose a stop to view live arrivals and status information or add to favourites

tfl.gov.uk

Wood Street is one of the stops in Kingston, the one between Kingston and Hatton Cross is Broad Street Teddington