London Buses Discussion

[MasterSpenny]

Ee172 has been put in a Windrush theme for the Notting Hill Carnival. It is also the first bus that has the new GAL (Go Ahead London) logo

Vibrant Windrush-themed bus to feature at Notting Hill Carnival

Following the carnival, the bus will be in service throughout Black History Month in October

www.standard.co.uk

A vibrantly-designed bus marking 75 years since the arrival of passengers on the SS Empire Windrush will form part of this weekend’s Notting Hill Carnival, Transport for London (TfL) has revealed.
The double-decker, covered in a wrap created by artist Baraka Carberry, will feature as part of the TfL float during the parade on Sunday and Monday.
Featuring three characters – an older person and two younger descendants - the artwork captures the generations of people who have shaped the stories of Windrush and the carnival.

The fabric of the characters’ clothing is comprised of photographs from the London Transport Museum, featuring people, places and symbols that have shaped the Windrush legacy, along with memories from the carnival. Following the carnival, the wrapped zero-emission bus will be in service throughout Black History Month in October. London mayor Sadiq Khan said: “I’m delighted that this beautifully designed bus will tell the powerful story of the Windrush generation and their descendants, and their impact on the carnival, the transport network and all aspects of our lives.
“It is a fitting tribute to the Caribbean men, women and children who came to London all those years ago and have helped make our capital the greatest city in the world.”

TfL separately advised all those attending the carnival to plan their journeys in advance, as more than two million people are expected to attend this weekend.
While planned closures on the transport network are being kept to a minimum, there will be some changes to bus service routes and times, especially in west London, due to road closures.

The carnival takes place in Notting Hill but it also spills into the streets of Ladbroke Grove, Westbourne Park, Westbourne Grove and Bayswater.
To reduce congestion, TfL said carnival attendees should consider using larger, well-connected stations nearby such as Paddington or Shepherd’s Bush.

The Monday carnival parade begins close to Westbourne Park Tube at 10am, moving down Westbourne Park Road — past the first judging zone — and along Chepstow Road to Westbourne Grove — the second judging zone — before arriving at Ladbroke Grove.
Performers then loop back down Kensal Road, parallel to Grand Union Canal, and onto Elkstone Road before turning back towards the starting point.

This year’s carnival is the 55th edition of one of the world’s biggest street parties, and the largest in Europe by a distance. It is today thought to generate almost £100m for the London economy.

Remember the GB Kite Electroliner slightly discussed in the bus manufacturer news & discussion thread? It turned up at Abellio a couple days ago, and route tested the E6. It panned out well, and passed, meaning they are likely to be ordered.

Source: what looks like a staff notice that states it, I don’t know if I should send it as it was messaged to me on Discord (discord.gg)

 

[londonbridge]

My first trips on SL7 yesterday. Referencing my earlier point as to the increased frequency having an impact on the ability to board if the bus gets busy on rail strike days, happily I was able to board the first bus to arrive on this occasion. It was still full and standing room only when I boarded, and remained so until the first stop reached after I boarded, but was less crowded when standing than on previous occasions.

On the way home later in the day, the issue of the bus appearing and disappearing at random, or showing the wrong waiting time on the bus times app, still persists. I’ve noticed on the app the timetable has specific times for each bus, whereas the bus stop timetables say “about every twelve to sixteen minutes”. I arrived at Hatton X at 8.00pm, the app said 8:10 in the timetable, and that the next bus was due in nineteen minutes. Two minutes later it changed to eleven minutes before disappearing. The bus subsequently arrived at 8:10 but still wasn’t showing at all in the app.

Oh, and the large “which bus”? poster at Hatton X which has a list of destinations and the bus/bus stop you need, that needs updating as it still says X26.

 

[MasterSpenny]

On the way home later in the day, the issue of the bus appearing and disappearing at random, or showing the wrong waiting time on the bus times app, still persists. I’ve noticed on the app the timetable has specific times for each bus, whereas the bus stop timetables say “about every twelve to sixteen minutes”. I arrived at Hatton X at 8.00pm, the app said 8:10 in the timetable, and that the next bus was due in nineteen minutes. Two minutes later it changed to eleven minutes before disappearing. The bus subsequently arrived at 8:10 but still wasn’t showing at all in the app.

Buses (and even whole routes) can stop tracking at times, so this is most likely what happened with your SL7

What is the PVR of the 24 hour night service on the 123 and 158?

Was on the 89 earlier today and spotted going in the opposite direction EN48 on the 486 with running number Bexleyheath (BX)121. I thought the running numbers were 101-114?

 

[MotCO]

Buses (and even whole routes) can stop tracking at times, so this is most likely what happened with your SL7

What is the PVR of the 24 hour night service on the 123 and 158?

Was on the 89 earlier today and spotted going in the opposite direction EN48 on the 486 with running number Bexleyheath (BX)121. I thought the running numbers were 101-114?
Source for running numbers: my own eyes

Route 123 is 20; route 158 is 2; 486 is 14

London Bus Route Details

 

[Busaholic]

Buses (and even whole routes) can stop tracking at times, so this is most likely what happened with your SL7

What is the PVR of the 24 hour night service on the 123 and 158?

Was on the 89 earlier today and spotted going in the opposite direction EN48 on the 486 with running number Bexleyheath (BX)121. I thought the running numbers were 101-114?

Route 123 is 20; route 158 is 2; 486 is 14

London Bus Route Details

The day service on the 123 has a PVR of 20, but the night service will be a lot less.

 

[MotCO]

The day service on the 123 has a PVR of 20, but the night service will be a lot less.

The N123 is 4

 

[Goldfish62]

As well as Londonbusroutes.net you can also find out operational details inc PVR from the TfL website where all current schedules are published:

Bus schedules

Search for a bus route number to find schedules for that route

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Busoccultation]

What is the PVR of the 24 hour night service on the 123 and 158?

The Night 123 PVR is 4 and the Night 158 PVR is 3, both run every 30 mins during the night.

 

[GusB]

As well as Londonbusroutes.net you can also find out operational details inc PVR from the TfL website where all current schedules are published:

Bus schedules

Search for a bus route number to find schedules for that route

tfl.gov.uk

It would be helpful if you could quote the relevant information from the source that you refer to - as required by forum rules.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Would it make sense for the Electroliners on order for the 363 (source: top of page 63) to be used on route N63? (For people who don’t know: The N63 is just a night route thats goes on the full 63 and 363 routes)

 

[MotCO]

Would it make sense for the Electroliners on order for the 363 (source: top of page 63) to be used on route N63? (For people who don’t know: The N63 is just a night route thats goes on the full 63 and 363 routes)

If used on both the 363 and N63, when would they get charged up?

 

[MasterSpenny]

If used on both the 363 and N63, when would they get charged up?

Ideally you would want the Electroliner on the 363 finished by somewhere between 8pm and 9.30pm so that you can hope to get enough charge in it before going back out for the N63.

In other news, the first school routes have started operation for this school year. Go Ahead sent out the 625 and 633 this morning, as seen here:

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

GoAhead London - Route 625​

Vehicles that have also been on the route during the day :-​

Fleet	Reg	Used From	Used Until	Line
E232	YX61DSV	07:15	08:00	625
WVL420	LX11CXC	07:30	08:29	625

GoAhead London - Route 633​

Vehicles that have also been on the route during the day :-​

Fleet	Reg	Used From	Used Until	Line
EH15	SN61DBX	07:41	08:50	633
EH195	YY67USS	07:15	08:01	633

 

[Mikey C]

If used on both the 363 and N63, when would they get charged up?

Indeed won't that be a complication for all Night Bus routes once they go electric, if you're relying on overnight charging?

 

[90sWereBetter]

At present the N63 uses 61-plate E400Hs from the 381 or 17/18-plate E400MMCs from the 45/196. I'm expecting the 61-plates to go when the 381 gets its new electrics, but the MMCs should be around for a considerable time yet to service the night routes.

 

[MasterSpenny]

At present the N63 uses 61-plate E400Hs from the 381 or 17/18-plate E400MMCs from the 45/196. I'm expecting the 61-plates to go when the 381 gets its new electrics, but the MMCs should be around for a considerable time yet to service the night routes.

I can see when the 381 gets its electrics it’s hybrids being used to start off new double deck contracts if electric buses are not ready. Same with the E7 current vehicles, but for single deck routes that can use 10.8m buses.

On this day in 2003, Ken Livingstone and TfL introduced a scheme to make buses better. The ways that it ranged were from increasing frequencies of routes, 24 hour conversions and new routes such as the 434 being introduced. 20 years goes scarcely fast nowadays!!

30th August 2003 - bus changes

Explore LBMWH's 517 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

(not my photo)

 

[jumble]

Yes, that's right. It seems to be a heinous crime to put a Superloop bus on anything other than an 'SL' route. This means the SL6 (formerX68) has buses laying over during the day at Waterloo RA base - somewhat of a waste of resources in my eyes.

I wonder if the reverse is true - can a non-Superloop bus appear on an 'SL' route once all Superloop buses are branded?

It was very strange to see a fully vinyld SL9 on Friday Night in Northolt with X140 on the blinds

 

[Goldfish62]

Agreed, SL6 will have buses doing one single journey, as only the first 2 buses each peak operate the last 2 journey's

Here's a link to the TFL site for the working timetable for the SL6

It's not really a waste though is it? Any route that has a peak imbalanced means that you effectively require buses that only do a trip or two in one or both peaks. The only difference here is that it's the same buses all the time rather than on rotation.

 

[MasterSpenny]

The electric charging infrastructure at Croydon garage has been increased for the upcoming contract on the 450

https://twitter.com/Go_Ahead_London/status/1696798111086137703?s=2

More on our journey to a Zero-Emission (ZE) bus fleet with a selection of images from inside Croydon Garage as we prepare for the forthcoming introduction of new BYD ADL single-deck electric buses on Route 450 (Bell Green to West Croydon). Richard Harrington, Engineering Director at The Go-Ahead Group and Head of its ZE Centre of Excellence explained: "Compact chargers allow my team greater flexibility when planning a garage conversion as they require less space, while still being more then capable of powering the fleet. E-bus infrastructure evolves very quickly and is one of many considerations when futureproofing buildings." Chris McKeown, Go-Ahead London's Engineering Director added: "Route 450 will soon be our fourth electric service at Croydon, following Routes 119, 264 and 359. As always, I thank local colleagues for working harmoniously with the company as important equipment was installed over recent months." David Cutts, Go-Ahead London's Managing Director stated: "Over 1,000 ZE buses are now in service across the capital, helping to improve air quality. Working with Transport for London and our supply chain, we look forward to further fleet decarbonisation over the coming years." We are London's largest bus company and a part of
@TheGoAheadGroup
, an international provider of passenger transport. #goaheadlondon #londonbuses #publictransport #zeroemission

 

[MotCO]

It's not really a waste though is it? Any route that has a peak imbalanced means that you effectively require buses that only do a trip or two in one or both peaks. The only difference here is that it's the same buses all the time rather than on rotation.

But in the past, those buses not used in the off-peaks could be used to cover for buses pulled off peak duties for maintenance etc. Now they can't be used, so the number of buses required to operate the garage run-out has to be increased by 3 buses. Needing three extra buses is a waste in my books.

 

[Goldfish62]

But in the past, those buses not used in the off-peaks could be used to cover for buses pulled off peak duties for maintenance etc. Now they can't be used, so the number of buses required to operate the garage run-out has to be increased by 3 buses. Needing three extra buses is a waste in my books.

The PVR has not increased, but the scheme has cost one spare bus to allow for maintenance. Source: internal.

 

[Notchapple]

But in the past, those buses not used in the off-peaks could be used to cover for buses pulled off peak duties for maintenance etc. Now they can't be used, so the number of buses required to operate the garage run-out has to be increased by 3 buses. Needing three extra buses is a waste in my books.

As Goldfish62 said, only one extra bus was needed as the first two buses of each peak also completed the last two journeys of each peak. Plus the extra bus in question was EH213 which was already long overdue it's return from loan at Croydon.

 

[Goldfish62]

As Goldfish62 said, only one extra bus was needed as the first two buses of each peak also completed the last two journeys of each peak. Plus the extra bus in question was EH213 which was already long overdue it's return from loan at Croydon.

And the extra bus is a spare, so no additional duty cost.

 

[MotCO]

And the extra bus is a spare, so no additional duty cost.

But there is no such thing as a free bus - it could be sold or used elsewhere. Having a spare bus means there is an additional cost - additional maintenance, depreciation etc. I accept there is no additional cost of drivers, but that's not what I am talking about.

But I realise we may be taking this thread off topic, so that is m final word on the subject. We may just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Goldfish62]

But there is no such thing as a free bus - it could be sold or used elsewhere. Having a spare bus means there is an additional cost - additional maintenance, depreciation etc. I accept there is no additional cost of drivers, but that's not what I am talking about.

But I realise we may be taking this thread off topic, so that is m final word on the subject. We may just have to agree to disagree.

I never said a spare bus was not a cost. Of course it's a cost. There's nothing to disagree with me about.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Travelled on the 51 today. The upper deck iBus screen didn’t work (where I was sitting), and whilst along the route, I saw something I thought would have not happened since the route left Stagecoach: Scania OmniCity 15086! It probably got pulled from the 96 earlier.
(It was along the section where it is just the 51 and school routes 625 and 658, all of which are Go-Ahead London routes before anyone asks)

Ee201, 202 and 203 all been pictured on delivery runs. I thought that these were not registered with the DVLA in time and so are going to be faced with 73 plates alongside Ee100?
(not my photos)

Ee201 - LB23PHA

Seen on the M74 motorway southbound at Uddingston on delivery is Go-Ahead London Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City bodied BYD electric double decker Ee201 - LB23PHA. The registration plate LB23PHA has been voided for LG73FTJ.

www.flickr.com

Ee202 - LB23PHF

Seen on the M74 motorway southbound at Uddingston on delivery is Go-Ahead London Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City bodied BYD electric double decker Ee202 - LB23PHF. The registration plate LB23PHF has been voided for LG73FTN.

www.flickr.com

Ee203 - LB23PHJ

Seen on the M74 motorway southbound at Uddingston on delivery is Go-Ahead London Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City bodied BYD electric double decker Ee203 - LB23PHJ. The registration plate LB23PHJ has been voided for LG73FTK.

www.flickr.com

Seen on the M74 motorway southbound at Uddingston on delivery is Go-Ahead London Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City bodied BYD electric double decker Ee201 - LB23PHA.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Now you bring up the 96, do stagecoach not have enough omni cities for the full service? I've been using the root quite a bit in the last three months and quite a few e400 hybrids have been appearing and they are quite frankly awful as far as I'm concerned, other opinions are of course available but I am much prefer it when the Scania turns up, all be it that they are getting a bit long in the tooth I suspect and rolled out this be replaced with some species of awful Alexander Dennis junk

 

[Mikey C]

Now you bring up the 96, do stagecoach not have enough omni cities for the full service? I've been using the root quite a bit in the last three months and quite a few e400 hybrids have been appearing and they are quite frankly awful as far as I'm concerned, other opinions are of course available but I am much prefer it when the Scania turns up, all be it that they are getting a bit long in the tooth I suspect and rolled out this be replaced with some species of awful Alexander Dennis junk

The other way round surely?

The ancient Omnicities haven't been the main bus on the 96 for years

 

[londonteacher]

Now you bring up the 96, do stagecoach not have enough omni cities for the full service? I've been using the root quite a bit in the last three months and quite a few e400 hybrids have been appearing and they are quite frankly awful as far as I'm concerned, other opinions are of course available but I am much prefer it when the Scania turns up, all be it that they are getting a bit long in the tooth I suspect and rolled out this be replaced with some species of awful Alexander Dennis junk

I’m pretty sure that 2016 was the last time that the OmniCity buses were officially allocated. Now the allocation is for the E400Hs, but Plumstead garage will use any non-electric double decker on it.

As far as I know, the OmniCity buses are now spares and are used when needed. Most have been converted to Sightseeing buses or transferred out to Cambridge and Kent irc.

 

[Notchapple]

I’m pretty sure that 2016 was the last time that the OmniCity buses were officially allocated. Now the allocation is for the E400Hs, but Plumstead garage will use any non-electric double decker on it.

As far as I know, the OmniCity buses are now spares and are used when needed. Most have been converted to Sightseeing buses or transferred out to Cambridge and Kent irc.

About 25 are allocated to 97 hence they stray a lot onto the 96

 

[90sWereBetter]

About 25 are allocated to 97 hence they stray a lot onto the 96

Didn't know Leyton garage covered the 96, that's a hell of a lot of dead mileage there

For serious though, Plumstead have about 5 or 6 Scanias left, which probably won't see the year out. The ranks have already been thinned out by various spare E400s from other parts of Stagecoach London. The ones at Leyton should be off when the new contract starts next year, possibly replaced by the E400Hs currently on the 277 when that route is electrified.

I for one will be glad to see the back of them - the seats are rock hard, the bodies are of poor quality, plus they replaced a fair amount of my beloved Trident/ALX400s . Cheap as chips nonsense bought by accountants, Macquarie Bank really did do some damage to East London and Selkent at the tail end of the 2000s!

There is the irony that Leyton's last few Tridents actually outlasted the huge Scania batch bought for the 48 and 56 by about two or three years!