Fantasy Open-Access

[bnm]

A stopper service from holyhead and llandudno to newquay once a day return.
Leaving holyhead 9.35 leaving newquay at 10.40 both services work by 1 2 car and 1 3 car 170's splitting at llandudno jct and the 3 car off to llandudno.
operated by an open access named "North-south link"

Holyhead
Rhosneigr
llanfairpwll
Bangor
penmaenmawr
Conwy
llandudno jct-Train joins up to another train that has come from llandudno
(Deganwy)
Colwyn bay
Abergale and pensarn
Rhyl
Prestatyn
Chester
Crewe
Penkridge
stafford
Wolverhampton
New Street
Five ways
University
Barnt green
Bromsgrove
Ashchurch
Cheltenham spa
Gloucester
Lydny
Chepstow
Caldicot
Severn tunnel jct
Newport
Temple meads
Parson street
Yatton
Worle
Weston milton
Weston super mare
Bridge water
Taunton
Tiverton parkway
Exeter st davids
Dawlish
Teignmouth
Newton Abbot
Totnes
Ivybridge
Plymouth
Liskaerd
Bodmin parkway
Par
Luxulyan
Bugle
Roch
Quintrell downs
Newquay

very long stopper would take 12 hours at least!

Just looking at the calls beyond Newport - what about Pining, Patchway, Filton Abbey Wood, Stapleton Road, Lawrence Hill, Bedminster, Nailsea & Backwell, Highbridge, Exeter St Thomas, Starcross, Dawlish Warren, Devonport, Dockyard, St Budeaux Ferry Road, Saltash, St Germans, Menheniot and Lostwithiel?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....The service would call at:

Bangor
LLandudno Jct
Rhyl
Prestatyn
Shotton
Chester
Helsby
Eccles
Manhester picc
Stockport
Sheffeild
Alfreton
Nottingham
Grantham
Peterbrugh
Ely
Kennet
Bury st edmonds
Thurston
Elmswell
Stowmarket
Ipswich

These would run 2 hourly using hst/222 some services terminating at chester,Norwich, Ely, Nottingham, Llandudno jct, Needham market.
....

I don't know about the East Anglia stops, having never used them, but I would welcome the train calling at Eccles. Given that in the next four years there could be services to Hull, Bradford and London from there, and possibly (although not neccesarily) Glasgow following electrification, I think it's a good idea. Furthermore, given that many don't travel to Chester, Runcorn and North Wales from there and Patricroft because the current connection on the return journey at Newton Le Willows/Earlestown is 50 minutes for most of the day, a direct service would see an increase in usage of the trains.

However, I would strongly suggest stopping at Warrington Bank Quay, as you have to pass through it anyway, and either Earlestown or Newton Le Willows (preferably Newton Le Willows as the curved platform at Earlestown would be a nightmare for an HST!).

A further good point for Eccles is the link to Manchester Piccadilly, for Manchester Airport, and the stops at Sheffield and Nottingham may attract some more passengers.

....
Stock : loco hauled (class 86, 87, 90 whatever hasn’t been flogged off) plus 5 or 6 refurbished MK3 coaches. In contrast to normal practice all coaches will be quiet coaches (no announcements except emergencies), with the exception of a “Party Coach” where anything will be allowed (within reason).
....

The lack of announcements might be illegal (under DDA regulations), unless you can find another way to assist registered blind persons from being aware of when their stop is coming up.

 

[Blindtraveler]

scotrail sleapers bost no announcements with rail staff assisting all disabled travelers even in seated accommodation. Written as a registered Blind person!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
would your party coach include a seperate, well sealed smokers area? Know people who'd be happy for that. Would you have a trollie, maybe lisenced til 1am, and a reasonably priced hot drinks too?

Sounds like a good idea. I can see that happening on London-Sheffield, London-Leeds and London-Newcastle as well.



That's going to be fun on the up train from Newcastle on a Friday night.



A Sheffield service might connect directly to Luton, and to Gatwick via Thameslink. Connections from King's Cross will be more difficult, although a stop at Potter's Bar would be good for coaches on the M25.



See above.

[/i

 

[Fred26]

Would your party coach include a seperate, well sealed smokers area? Know people who'd be happy for that.

That would be illegal, wouldn't it? Staff would be exposed to the smoking.

 

[Blindtraveler]

That would be illegal, wouldn't it? Staff would be exposed to the smoking.

smokers could have tikets checked on boarding and have to walk to another area of the train for anything like refreshments

 

[Fred26]

smokers could have tikets checked on boarding and have to walk to another area of the train for anything like refreshments

You'd still need staff to go in there, for security reasons, if nothing else.

 

[route:oxford]

smokers could have tikets checked on boarding and have to walk to another area of the train for anything like refreshments

Problem with that is the on-train crew would be expected to enter the "danger zone" should any trouble occur with the passengers or if, for example, the emergency cord was pulled.

 

[Blindtraveler]

are true. Pitty as have several puffers amongst my friends who now insist on flying!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Just looking at the calls beyond Newport - what about Pining, Patchway, Filton Abbey Wood, Stapleton Road, Lawrence Hill, Bedminster, Nailsea & Backwell, Highbridge, Exeter St Thomas, Starcross, Dawlish Warren, Devonport, Dockyard, St Budeaux Ferry Road, Saltash, St Germans, Menheniot and Lostwithiel?

oh yeh cos i was producing a long list i was ment to put dawlish warren, nailsea and blackwell and loswithel

 

[martinsh]

The lack of announcements might be illegal (under DDA regulations), unless you can find another way to assist registered blind persons from being aware of when their stop is coming up.

How about this idea ? When passengers boarded / ticket checked, they would be given (colour coded) cards to put on their seat reservation space to show where they intended to alight. Shortly before each station the "guard" would walk through and alert those whose station was coming up.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There has to be a system, what that system is doesn't really matter provided that it doesn't discriminate against a person with disablilities.

The only downside with the card system is when passengers are blind and cannot put the card in the reservation space, although I'm sure the staff could do that when they go through the train.

 

[martinsh]

The final TOC run by my Phoenix Transport Group is Cheshire Lines. This is slightly different from the other group members (Trans-Western and Night Rail). Whilst they are open access operators, Cheshire Lines is partly a “micro-franchise”. Basically sub-contracting routes from other TOCs. [ I am not sure if this is allowed, but I think it should be !! ]

Routes
Crewe – Chester (subcontract from ATW)
[proposed reopening for Beeston Castle station with bus links]
Crewe – Shrewsbury locals (subcontract from ATW)
[frequency doubled to hourly, proposed reopening of Willaston & Hadnall and new stations at Tilstock and Harlescott / Ditherington ]
Chester – Northwich – Knutsford – Altrincham – Stockport – Manchester (subcontract from Northern)

The Chester – Stockport service was taken on to avoid accusations of abstraction by the following open access services

Knutsford – Northwich – Runcorn – Liverpool (2 hourly)
Altrincham – Knutsford – Northwich – Middlewich – Sandbach – Crewe (hourly)
Extended 4 jnys per day Crewe – Lichfield – Nuneaton – Euston

Stock :
Crewe – Chester / ShrewsburyClass 142s (no-one else wanted them so we got them cheap !!) – refurbished to high standard by same people who did Wrexahm and Shropshire Mark 3s.
Mid Cheshire routes
Class 156s refurbished
London Service
Class 185s, small batch added to Trans-Western order (qv)

 

[junglejames]

Ivo, you know me too well

To be honest, I would use my winnings to do the following:

• Restaff all stations from say 0600 (or first train thereafter) until 1500 which have an annual usage of over 65,000.
• Clean up our stations: Many still have Regional Railways branding, some down south are still in NSE colours. I would use the money for new signs, each one in the current TOC colours, expelling legacies of BR for good.
• Restore stations at Newhaven Marine and Norton Bridge, and provide new services for them.
• Reopen our old station buildings for rail use: Beautiful buildings in Scotland, the West and in rural areas have all been abandoned. Put TOC offices there in small batches, much better than multi-million new builds miles from the areas they deal with.
• Stop ERMTS for good.
• New services: I'll do these later.

Matt

Id spend my money on painting over the newly painted TOC colours. Painting it back into the old pre BR colours!!! Thus bringing back the legacy of BR.

 

[atomicdanny]

When travelling from Southend Central to Fenchurch Street, it struck me that there arn't many places to cross the Thames downstream.
Dover-Norwich
Ramsgate
Margate
Faversham

I like the Idea, although wouldn't it be better to go via Canterbury East direct to Faversham rather than around the coast?

 

[cuccir]

Night Rail
The second Open Access company in the Phoenix Transport Group is Night Rail. Since we are said to be moving towards a 24/7 society, it seems to be strange that there are less overnight trains than there were 30/40 years ago. Night Rail aims to provide service between major cities at times of the day when the normal franchised operator does not run. And for journeys which are not long enough to justify a sleeper service.

Route(s)
London Euston
(Watford pu)
Milton Keynes Central
Northampton
Rugby
Coventry
Birmingham International
Birmingham New Street
Wolverhampton
Stafford
then either or
Crewe Stoke-on-Trent
Liverpool South Parkway Stockport
Liverpool Lime Street Manchester Piccadilly

Core Route hourly - Manchester and Liverpool served every other hour
Departures Southbound 11pm to 4am
Northbound 11pm to 4am

Stock : loco hauled (class 86, 87, 90 whatever hasn’t been flogged off) plus 5 or 6 refurbished MK3 coaches. In contrast to normal practice all coaches will be quiet coaches (no announcements except emergencies), with the exception of a “Party Coach” where anything will be allowed (within reason).

Ticketing : special fares will apply, available only in advance (internet/TVM) or on the train, these tickets only valid on Night Rail, but not restricted to a particular train. Additionally, passengers holding tickets that would otherwise be valid for the rotue (i.e. missed last train home) will be able to purchase “upgrades” for £5-15 (depending on length of journey)

Target Markets : As well as the obvious overnight travellers, the service targets passengers who need to get to airports at ridiculously early hours. It serves Birmingham Airport directly, Liverpool JL via 24 hr bus connection (already exists), Manchester via TPE 24 hour service, and Heathrow and Luton via express coaches to/from Watford (provided by local Phoenix bus company Colne Valley !)

Future Plans: If this first service is succesfull then plans to develop similar ones on other main lines from London e.g. Paddington - Swansea/Exeter, St Pancras - Nottingham / Sheffield

I missed but had been looking out for this one the first time round on this thread as I've thought in the past about such a service. I think that a dedicated night rail company would work well; there might even be scope to provide 'bouncers', or extra-trained staff, which might be covered if you were able to restrict the service to booked or +premium only. The main restriction I guess is that you'd have to stick to lines which were already open 24 hours for freight, and you'd often be having delays due to line closures for engineering work.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think something like the iDTGV between major cities

 

[Ivo]

I wasn't going to comment on the Trans-Thames one, but hey.

I have actually created similar things in MS Excel before now. The best one in my opinion was a rather expensive-looking one that involves loads of new build. (Stations served by fast trains are in bold; stations served by slow trains are in italics. And if you don't know the area, look on Google Maps or wherever.)

Sittingbourne
Sheerness-on-Sea
Southend Pier Head
Southend Pier Hill
Southend Central
Southend Victoria
Southend Prittlewell*
Southend Airport
Eastwood
Belfairs
Rayleigh East
Rayleigh Central*
Chelmsford
Stansted Airport
Audley End
Cambridge

...with possible extra stations at:

Wickford
Billericay
Shenfield
Witham
Braintree Freeport
Braintree
Great Dunmow

(Stations marked * have been renamed: Prittlewell for the benefit of people who aren't aware of its existence and assume that Victoria is the best station for the likes of Priory Park, Southend Hospital and Fossetts Park; Rayleigh because I couldn't think of a better name for Rayleigh East and having it and just plain "Rayleigh" seemed odd.)

Anyway, last I knew there were still (pipeline only) plans for a tunnel between Canvey Island and the Isle of Grain? Maybe a Southeastern/Crossrail service to Southend Central or possibly even Rayleigh [via Benfleet and a new station at Hadleigh] could be on the cards?

 

[Bomber]

And now for something completely different.

Summer,
Hourly service for Llandudno to Blaneau Festiniog calling at all station, Steam hauled by suitable loco, Std 2-6-4 tanks or similar.
Winter,
Revert to present service weekdays with 158's or similar then Steam at weekends.

If it makes a loss who cares, I'd enjoy travelling on the footplate of 'my' service.

 

[Fred26]

I love the idea of a station at the end of the pier, again at Pier Hill and in Eastwood, Belfairs and Rayleigh East (where would these latter three be, exactly?).

This is the information I've read on the cross-Canvey link. There's a couple of maps/diagrams, but they're small. Very interesting reading.

As far as a Southeastern service from Kent to Southend goes, I've thought for a while that a line could be built to run alongside the A130 with a new station at Sadlers Farm called North Benfleet, or somesuch. I'm not sure where you'd run a line through Hadleigh, let alone build a station. I've also thought that a halt (off-peak, summer only) could be built to serve Hadleigh Castle on the current line.

 

[Ivo]

First off, note that these three stations would be underground.

An approximate guide to the locations of these three stations:

Eastwood: The "junction" between the A127 and Brendon Way (no longer a junction)
Belfairs: The junction between the A127 and Progress Road
Rayleigh East: The junction between the A1015 and The Chase, roughly halfway between the more important Clarence Road and Trinity Road

 

[Fred26]

First off, note that these three stations would be underground.

An approximate guide to the locations of these three stations:

Eastwood: The "junction" between the A127 and Brendon Way (no longer a junction)
Belfairs: The junction between the A127 and Progress Road
Rayleigh East: The junction between the A1015 and The Chase, roughly halfway between the more important Clarence Road and Trinity Road

Makes sense. Though I'm not a fan of North/South/East/West in station names, I don't know what else you'd call the Rayleigh stations.

 

[Ivo]

Rayleigh Chase? And then the present Rayleigh could be changed to any of Central (as above), Town or Junction. And if you then filter in the almost OTT version of this idea I had, which completely revised the area's services, there would also be a Hambro Hill station (on the existing Southend Victoria line of course).

 

[Swanny200]

When travelling from Southend Central to Fenchurch Street, it struck me that there arn't many places to cross the Thames downstream.
So my proposal is a little bit different, but involves the construction of a tunnel from Sheerness to Southend with with stations at Southend Central and Victoria underground before joining the Liverpool St line at Rochford, then breaking of at Rayleigh and then joining the GEML towards Chelmsford just south of said town.
Expensive and outside the box but I was determined to think of something different and still kind of sensible.
I envisage an hourly shuttle between Faversham and Chelmsford. With four or five trains per weekday each way between Dover and Norwich. On weekends three each way.

Calling points would be thus-

Faversham-Chelmsford
Sittingbourne
Kemsley
Swale
Queenborough
Sheerness on Sea
Southend Central
Southend Victoria
Rochford
Hockley
Rayleigh
Chelmsford

Dover-Norwich
Ramsgate
Margate
Faversham
Sittingbourne
Sheerness on Sea
Southend Central
Southend Victoria
Chelmsford
Colchester
Ipswich
Stowmarket
Norwich

For stock I propose dual voltage trains similar to maybe a three car 377 for the shuttle. The Longer service I envisage a 444 style train. I think the switch over point can be at Southend Victoria underground, however both types of electrification will exist between Central and Victoria incase of failure.
If this service proves successful then splitting services to Cambridge/Peterborough could be made.

I know its different but I think its quite a good idea

Only problem with that is trying to dig under a restricted space, don't think they would let you tunnel in an area where there is a sunken WW2 munitions vessel that if it gets disturbed and blows up could wipe out most of your customers :. Best bet would be Isle of Grain or a spur from Gravesend to Tilbury.

 

[Fred26]

Rayleigh Chase? And then the present Rayleigh could be changed to any of Central (as above), Town or Junction. And if you then filter in the almost OTT version of this idea I had, which completely revised the area's services, there would also be a Hambro Hill station (on the existing Southend Victoria line of course).

You'd probably be better off running a tram from the pier to Rayleigh via those stations and the hospital, then use the current line to get to Chelmsford.

 

[route:oxford]

With the £90M I intend winning on Euromillions this Friday...

I shall speak to Staedler Rail and order sufficient stock to form 3 diagrams of their 20m Panaramic coaches with low density seating for operation on the West Highland line. I will also order 7 bespoke locomotives with a RA of 4.

These will be formed as:

Loco-TS-TSL-DBSO-DBSO-TSMb-TSL-TSL-Loco

(DBSO will, of course have a corridor connection).

Then speak to Transport Scotland and see if I can persuade them to subcontract the WHML services to me.

 

[Rich_D3167]

If I won the Euromillions etc, then i'd get a proper weekly service reintroduced for Brigg & Kirton Lindsey (& Gainsborough Central).

Cleethorpes to York, via Gainsborough, Doncaster & Leeds.

Calling points:

Cleethorpes.
Grimsby Town.
Habrough.
Barnetby.
Brigg.
Kirton Lindsey.
Gainsborough Central.
Doncaster.
Wakefield Westgate.
Leeds.
York.

An alternative for people from Cleethorpes & Grimsby to make East Coast connections (the route via Gainsborough is more or less the same time as via Scunthorpe, 10 minutes slower tops), as well as a direct connection to Leeds & York for connections to the North & North-West. It'd be 2 hourly Monday - Saturday, with 3 trains a day in each direction on Summer Sundays. Trains would be Class 158's.

All fantasy, I know!

 

[generalvegitable]

*bump*
just came up with a very unlikely fantasy OAO so sorry for the bump, been nearly a month but I rather liked this toipic

I am not good at coming up with names but here we go, it goes from Heathrow to Aberdeen, the service is primarily targeted at airline passengers so it goes from Heathrow. there would be a wave of investment in all stations served.

calls at (northbound):
Heathrow T5
Heathrow Central (pick up only)
(west coast main line)
Birmingham International
Birmingham NS
Manchester Piccadilly (reverse and switch to Diesel traction)
Huddersfield
Leeds
York (switch to Electric traction)
Newcastle Central
Edinburgh Waverley (switch to Diesel traction)
Dundee
Aberdeen

southbound:
Aberdeen
Dundee
Edinburgh Waverley (switch to electric traction)
Newcastle Central
York (switch to Diesel traction)
Huddersfield
Leeds
Manchester Piccadilly (reverse and switch to Electric traction)
Birmingham NS
Birmingham International
(west coast main line)
Heathrow Central (set down only)
Heathrow T5

these would leave at (roughly) 09:00AM, 12:00 noon and 03:00PM mon to sat in each direction, and 09:00AM on sundays.

the rolling stock would be based on loco and stock. they would be tilt enabled to be able to use the highest speed possible.
the loco would be Bi mode, capable of running on OHLE and Diesel, it would have a top speed of 140mph on electric power and 125 on Diesel power.
the coaches would be built to the highest standard, pressure sealed (to stop passenger's ears popping in tunnels), decent sized windows in all classes, the smallest windows would probably be in Premier class because of the private nature of each window. air conditioned, an entertainment system at each seat with a variety of movies, TV shows, TV channels, music and radio channels aswell as a flight map thing like you get on planes.

there would be three classes on board.
Standard is basically standard class on normal trains, comfortable seats with some leg room. a mix of tables and airline type seats. standard class passengers can purchase food and drinks from the buffet or go to the resturant coach. the seats are in 2+2 formation. the entertainment system costs 50p per hour

First like first class on normal trains. even more comfortable seats, all with tables, (some airline style seats are provided for single travellers). full at seat dining service, or the passengers can go to the buffet/resturant. the entertainment system is free

Premier aimed to be similar to first class on planes. seats arranged in a 1+1 formation. electrically reclining seats with one window per seat, electrically operated blinds, a mini bar next to each seat, full at seat dining service, semi open, designed to be the height of luxury. it is pre book only, the entertainment system is free.

the coach formation would be this:

DVT - Premier - First - First - First - Resturant/Buffet - Standard - Standard - Standard - Standard - Standard - Locomotive.

I highly doubt that there would be many passengers going the full distance partly because there is a much more direct (and probably faster) route but it would very well serve the intermediate journeys between the stations served.

any comments or questions or even a suitable name for the service?

NB I am not an expert on routing but using google maps I have found a short spur between the GWML and the WCML near Willesden junction

 

[MidnightFlyer]

*bump*
just came up with a very unlikely fantasy OAO so sorry for the bump, been nearly a month but I rather liked this toipic

I am not good at coming up with names but here we go, it goes from Heathrow to Aberdeen, the service is primarily targeted at airline passengers so it goes from Heathrow. there would be a wave of investment in all stations served.

calls at (northbound):
Heathrow T5
Heathrow Central (pick up only)
(west coast main line)
Birmingham International
Birmingham NS
Manchester Piccadilly (reverse and switch to Diesel traction)
Huddersfield
Leeds
York (switch to Electric traction)
Newcastle Central
Edinburgh Waverley (switch to Diesel traction)
Dundee
Aberdeen

southbound:
Aberdeen
Dundee
Edinburgh Waverley (switch to electric traction)
Newcastle Central
York (switch to Diesel traction)
Huddersfield
Leeds
Manchester Piccadilly (reverse and switch to Electric traction)
Birmingham NS
Birmingham International
(west coast main line)
Heathrow Central (set down only)
Heathrow T5

these would leave at (roughly) 09:00AM, 12:00 noon and 03:00PM mon to sat in each direction, and 09:00AM on sundays.

the rolling stock would be based on loco and stock. they would be tilt enabled to be able to use the highest speed possible.
the loco would be Bi mode, capable of running on OHLE and Diesel, it would have a top speed of 140mph on electric power and 125 on Diesel power.
the coaches would be built to the highest standard, pressure sealed (to stop passenger's ears popping in tunnels), decent sized windows in all classes, the smallest windows would probably be in Premier class because of the private nature of each window. air conditioned, an entertainment system at each seat with a variety of movies, TV shows, TV channels, music and radio channels aswell as a flight map thing like you get on planes.

there would be three classes on board.
Standard is basically standard class on normal trains, comfortable seats with some leg room. a mix of tables and airline type seats. standard class passengers can purchase food and drinks from the buffet or go to the resturant coach. the seats are in 2+2 formation. the entertainment system costs 50p per hour

First like first class on normal trains. even more comfortable seats, all with tables, (some airline style seats are provided for single travellers). full at seat dining service, or the passengers can go to the buffet/resturant. the entertainment system is free

Premier aimed to be similar to first class on planes. seats arranged in a 1+1 formation. electrically reclining seats with one window per seat, electrically operated blinds, a mini bar next to each seat, full at seat dining service, semi open, designed to be the height of luxury. it is pre book only, the entertainment system is free.

the coach formation would be this:

DVT - Premier - First - First - First - Resturant/Buffet - Standard - Standard - Standard - Standard - Standard - Locomotive.

I highly doubt that there would be many passengers going the full distance partly because there is a much more direct (and probably faster) route but it would very well serve the intermediate journeys between the stations served.

any comments or questions or even a suitable name for the service?

NB I am not an expert on routing but using google maps I have found a short spur between the GWML and the WCML near Willesden junction

Intersting stuff mate. I'm 99% sure you can get from GW-WC at Acton Wells/Willesdon.

Reading the Premier etc plans and making it all sound like plane on rails is great, yet I can't help but feel that the route makes it unviable, going via Birmingham and Huddersfield is a long way round. Trying to connect to the airports is quite a challenge, though I think Manchester Picc-Manchester Apt-Birmingham New St-Birmingham Intl-Heathrow would work, trouble is paths, and the fact that you are stop-start in places (around the two cities served).

 

[generalvegitable]

thanks, I agree that it is a rather long way round, I was trying to serve some of the major Airport Cities on the way (IE Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Edinburgh and aberdeen (I think)) I probably could have chosen a faster route by omitting Birmingham (which may well have its own direct rail connection to heathrow by the time this would run) and some of the other intermediate stops (e.g Huddersfield, Leeds and Dundee).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

thanks, I agree that it is a rather long way round, I was trying to serve some of the major Airport Cities on the way (IE Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Edinburgh and aberdeen (I think)) I probably could have chosen a faster route by omitting Birmingham (which may well have its own direct rail connection to heathrow by the time this would run) and some of the other intermediate stops (e.g Huddersfield, Leeds and Dundee).

Dundee does have its own airport, as does Leeds. I dare say an intermediate stop on this would be York!

Heathrow-Birmingham Intl-Manchester Piccadilly-Leeds-Newcastle-Edinburgh may be your best bet - New St is a massive time penalty, as is manchester Airport. Or you could be brave and reinstate New St and miss out Manchester altogether - New St-Crewe-Stockport-Denton-Stalybridge.