LU/Elizabeth Line 4G update

[Gigabit]

So not a chance they’re going to hit the end of 2024 goal.

For laptops and tablets without a 4G modem. Yes it’s less likely compared to a National Rail station, but some people might be using a Wi-Fi only device.

But why not just make that a separate SSID that you have to choose to connect to and then put your details into? It's madness that the phones are set to connect automatically at stations where there's coverage.

O2 has been broken on the Wi-Fi all week, connects but no data flow.

Is the fact EE announce first just a coincidence or have they negotiated faster access than the other carriers?

@MrJeeves looks like they are going to come back and upgrade the Jubilee Line spectrum:

Boldyn Networks, the organisation rolling out mobile coverage on the London Underground, will also begin to upgrade the existing coverage on the Jubilee line to allow 5G to be available at stations, such as Canary Wharf and North Greenwich, for the first time.

 

[MrJeeves]

Your map and information on the page is really useful. I see you state the date when it was updated, can you just briefly mention what content you've updated? Thanks.

That date updates when any part of the site is updated rather than any particular page.

If you're curious about what has changed, you can check the commits on GitHub: https://github.com/davwheat/mastdatabase.co.uk/commits/deploy/

I'm working on updating the TfL map today but it needs some work as the Elizabeth Line sections are one whole chunk rather than split between stations on the lines, so I can only mark "CrossrailCore" as planned and not, say, Paddington to Bond Street.

looks like they are going to come back and upgrade the Jubilee Line spectrum:

But when?

Is the fact EE announce first just a coincidence or have they negotiated faster access than the other carriers?

Just more skillful PR I think. EE and Boldyn aren't particularly great friends at the moment anyway...

 

[Gigabit]

Do we know why they aren't very good friends @MrJeeves? I always wondered why O2 were so delayed in the initial rollout on the Central Line so I assumed they'd also fallen out.

Do we happen to know if the Elizabeth Line upgrades also include any enhancing of coverage between Reading and the new tunnels? I find the coverage on the GWR there quite variable.

I wonder if a FOI request will tell us which stations they don't plan to cover?

By the end of 2024, Tube customers will be able to access 4G and 5G mobile connectivity and the internet across a significant proportion of the Tube network (80% or 215-220 out of 272 Tube stations) as well as the Elizabeth line. This investment will remove one of the most high-profile mobile 'not-spots' in the UK.

Connected London

We're making plans with telecoms partners that will help London become one of the best-connected cities in the world

tfl.gov.uk

 

[MrJeeves]

Do we know why they aren't very good friends @MrJeeves?

Nothing I can share.

Do we happen to know if the Elizabeth Line upgrades also include any enhancing of coverage between Reading and the new tunnels?

I assume it's only XR managed infrastructure.

 

[Gigabit]

FYI if anyone wants a detailed description of what stations/tunnels they actually plan to cover, it's available here:

003. Schedule 2.1 (Services Description) REDACTED.pdf

Pages 30 and onwards are useful and indicate the stations and tunnels.

https://www.contractsfinder.service...fd-bf4f-93b63ec50b70?origin=SearchResults&p=1 - lots more info in various documents here too.

Some confusing stations missed, there's no coverage in the halls of East Putney and Putney Bridge at the moment yet those look to be missed. Coverage on platform at East Putney is average to poor. But they are covering the tunnel between East Putney and Southfields which is good news.

 

[MrJeeves]

I'm working on updating the TfL map today but it needs some work as the Elizabeth Line sections are one whole chunk rather than split between stations on the lines, so I can only mark "CrossrailCore" as planned and not, say, Paddington to Bond Street.

Site update should go live in c. 15 mins to update the deployments on the map.

London Underground mobile connectivity map | mastdatabase.co.uk

Interactive map of mobile network deployments on the London Underground.

mastdatabase.co.uk

 

[JonnyM]

Site update should go live in c. 15 mins to update the deployments on the map.

London Underground mobile connectivity map | mastdatabase.co.uk

Interactive map of mobile network deployments on the London Underground.

mastdatabase.co.uk

Thanks, that's great. I notice there is a small error on the TfL map which they uploaded today in that tunnel coverage between Mornington Crescent and Camden Town is listed as 'coming soon', but I thought it had been live for some weeks?

 

[MrJeeves]

Thanks, that's great. I notice there is a small error on the TfL map which they uploaded today in that tunnel coverage between Mornington Crescent and Camden Town is listed as 'coming soon', but I thought it had been live for some weeks?

That's how I understand it, too.

 

[JonnyM]

Press release issued by TfL this morning:


The press release also includes a map (https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/a9d5a45c6b5e4b9cbd40e3917ad63e6c?width=580&height=580). Which shows the only sections to receive coverage by Spring 2024 will be the Central line between White City and Bank, the Northern line between Golders Green / East Finchley and Euston (City) / Tottenham Court Road, and the Piccadilly line between Russell Square and Covent Garden; and the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Stratford / Abbey Wood.

Can you provide a link to the press release? For some reason it isn't on the TfL website. Thanks.

 

[Mojo]

Can you provide a link to the press release? For some reason it isn't on the TfL website. Thanks.

They don’t publish on their website, they just get sent by Email: https://tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com/new...be-network-as-first-west-end-stations-go-live

 

[mrmartin]

So reading that press release again; DLR and London Overground is going to get coverage (think this is new?). And 80% of tube stations are going to get coverage by the end of 2024 (I believe this was the previous deadline for 100% coverage, so a delay there).

Also great news there is an actual date for the elizabeth line now, even if it is delayed significantly given IMO it should have launched when it opened given it was designed to have it from the start?

To sum up it seems 2024 will be when most of the rollout happens...

 

[MrJeeves]

Every press release or update from networks just comes across a bit like this:



TfL, Boldyn and the networks keep setting deadlines which they proceed to keep missing, and it leaves a rather sour taste in my mouth.

First the "xyz stations within next 6 months" was missed, then Summer 2023 deadline has gone, and now "end of Spring 2024" for the current sections on the map, and "Summer 2024" for southern Northern Line...

I doubt they'll even hit 80% by end of 2024 at this rate, honestly.

 

[mrmartin]

Yeah I totally agree. The general view of people here was that it was delayed but they'd be huge progress soon once they got over the issues. Seems to be much worse than that given the anemic rollout plans for the next 12 months.

Totally selfishly I'll be happy once the Elizabeth line is done as that's the main line I use.

Site update should go live in c. 15 mins to update the deployments on the map.

London Underground mobile connectivity map | mastdatabase.co.uk

Interactive map of mobile network deployments on the London Underground.

mastdatabase.co.uk

Btw, will you be updating this map to add DLR and Overground coming soon?

 

[MrJeeves]

Btw, will you be updating this map to add DLR and Overground coming soon?

I explicitly removed it at the start! The DLR is all there, but I suppose I will be adding back the Overground segments as more announcements happen.

Bank DLR used to have an EE leaky feeder providing 800 MHz (B20) 4G until early this year or late last year when it got switched off.

 

[Gigabit]

I explicitly removed it at the start! The DLR is all there, but I suppose I will be adding back the Overground segments as more announcements happen.

Bank DLR used to have an EE leaky feeder providing 800 MHz (B20) 4G until early this year or late last year when it got switched off.

Why only band 20? And why did they turn it off

 

[MrJeeves]

Why only band 20? And why did they turn it off

Presumably it was a fairly old install and didn't need much else.

Not sure why it was switched off, honestly.

 

[Gigabit]

Presumably it was a fairly old install and didn't need much else.

Not sure why it was switched off, honestly.

But didn’t EE only get band 20 in recent years? It can’t have been live that long relatively speaking. Just surprised it wasn’t band 3. Did this just cover the station?

I’ll be disappointed if TfL doesn’t cover ticket halls of stations where platform level coverage is fine but there is none in the ticket halls e.g. Putney Bridge. That isn’t “uninterrupted” coverage

 

[MrJeeves]

But didn’t EE only get band 20 in recent years? It can’t have been live that long relatively speaking. Just surprised it wasn’t band 3. Did this just cover the station?

Well the 800 spectrum auction was early 2013, so depends what you call recent!

EE, Three, BT, Vodafone, O2 All Win 4G Spectrum In The UK, But £2.3B In Bids Falls Short Of The £3.5B Expected | TechCrunch

Ofcom, the UK communications regulator, has just announced the winners of the UK spectrum auctions for 4G spectrum on the low-frequency 800MHz band, used for LTE and other mobile broadband services. The list is an attempt at playing fair: it includes fixed line incumbent BT; major mobile...

techcrunch.com

The leaky feeder covered the tunnel into Bank station on the DLR. Don't think there was any specific station solution.

 

[Gigabit]

Well the 800 spectrum auction was early 2013, so depends what you call recent!

EE, Three, BT, Vodafone, O2 All Win 4G Spectrum In The UK, But £2.3B In Bids Falls Short Of The £3.5B Expected | TechCrunch

Ofcom, the UK communications regulator, has just announced the winners of the UK spectrum auctions for 4G spectrum on the low-frequency 800MHz band, used for LTE and other mobile broadband services. The list is an attempt at playing fair: it includes fixed line incumbent BT; major mobile...

techcrunch.com

The leaky feeder covered the tunnel into Bank station on the DLR. Don't think there was any specific station solution.

Curious. Why did they only choose to cover that section I wonder

 

[MrJeeves]

Curious. Why did they only choose to cover that section I wonder

Knowing our networks, some executive uses it regularly and wanted coverage while travelling!

 

[Gigabit]

Knowing our networks, some executive uses it regularly and wanted coverage while travelling!

Very odd.

Well I hope they will add a DAS to the stations of the above ground stations but sadly not hopeful.

 

[Mojo]

My first trip this morning since the go live and I noticed that my signal for voice and 4G picked up almost as soon as the train left Bond Street and continued all the way up the passageway to the Northbound Victoria line platform. On the platform itself however despite still displaying one bar and 4G, nothing worked.

 

[MrJeeves]

Lizzy Line was live this morning between Paddington and Stratford on EE, too

 

[JonnyM]

Lizzy Line was live this morning between Paddington and Stratford on EE, too

Has more gone live than from what they originally announced on Friday I wonder?

Has more gone live than from what they originally announced on Friday I wonder?

Or could it be config testing?

 

[MrJeeves]

Has more gone live than from what they originally announced on Friday I wonder?

Probably more on Central and Northern

 

[JonnyM]

Probably more on Central and Northern

There was deffo signal between Bond Street and Oxford Circus coming home with faint signal on the platform at Bond Street. it could have been signal leaking onto the platform though.

There was deffo signal between Bond Street and Oxford Circus coming home with faint signal on the platform at Bond Street. it could have been signal leaking onto the platform though.

Scrap that....

 

[mrmartin]

Has more gone live than from what they originally announced on Friday I wonder?


Or could it be config testing?

Seems slightly confusing Liz line can go live in whatever test scenario it is now and work completely but won't be ready officially until spring 24!

 

[JonnyM]

Seems slightly confusing Liz line can go live in whatever test scenario it is now and work completely but won't be ready officially until spring 24!

It's bizarre isn't it? So is the EL live in the tunnels as well? Between Paddington and Stratford? All the time? They must be testing as I'm sure TfL would have made a huge song and dance if it had publicly gone live.

 

[MrJeeves]

Almost certainly on and off testing for the different operators

 

[JonnyM]

Almost certainly on and off testing for the different operators

Which would (maybe?) suggest an earlier time frame for going live? It would be welcomed considering the EL should have had 4G/5G from day one.