Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

I still find it somewhat bizarre that they’ve opted to bring back this route back. It was lightly used previously and looking at the area, not much has changed for me to justify its return. Running non stop from Grierson Avenue to Granton Square isn’t ideal either, much like the 35 on Chesser Avenue.

There are more new developments in Granton now so there may be more people in the area using them.

 

[danielhogg2005]

PDF timetables for the 72 and the X40 (attached below) have appeared on Traveline Scotland and the West Lothian Council website. According to the timetable, the X40 will be every 90 minutes on Saturdays and Sundays. Apart from that,all is as expected.

 

[Darklord8899]

I still find it somewhat bizarre that they’ve opted to bring back this route back. It was lightly used previously and looking at the area, not much has changed for me to justify its return. Running non stop from Grierson Avenue to Granton Square isn’t ideal either, much like the 35 on Chesser Avenue.

The 35 does stop twice each direction on Chesser Avenue though
(At Chesser Grove and at The West Edinburgh Retail Park)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 35 does stop twice each direction on Chesser Avenue though
(At Chesser Grove and at The West Edinburgh Retail Park)

Sorry I should’ve made that clearer. I’m referring to the fact it’s non stop from Slateford Station to the Retail Park. I’ve always thought that there should be stops parallel to the former ones at the Corn Exchange.

There are more new developments in Granton now so there may be more people in the area using them.

There’s not a lot though. The bulk of the new housing in the area if anything is primarily focused on Granton Square itself. There’s a new block being built next to the West Granton Terminus but of course that already has the 24 starting there. The Waterfront development has never really taken off and has turned somewhat into a white elephant; partly not helped by the cancellation of the trams, but it’s not just that. When it was not long built Lothian went in with high frequency/options and it was never really well used. The 47 became the stable (and good) option but that of course has now been replaced by a questionably implemented 22.

I feel the Waterfront would be absolutely fine with an increased 22, which would no doubt be used at the western end too.

 

[Humberscot]

PDF timetables for the 72 and the X40 (attached below) have appeared on Traveline Scotland and the West Lothian Council website. According to the timetable, the X40 will be every 90 minutes on Saturdays and Sundays. Apart from that,all is as

Training run for the 72 coming through Winchburgh at about 17:05 - think it was 844

 

[Darklord8899]

Sorry I should’ve made that clearer. I’m referring to the fact it’s non stop from Slateford Station to the Retail Park. I’ve always thought that there should be stops parallel to the former ones at the Corn Exchange.

Ah, right, understand now!
Yes, rather than have those (stupid - in my opinion) bike lanes there would be enough room for bus stops parallel to the New Mart Road stops.

However, with the current shambles of a road layout this will never happen.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Training run for the 72 coming through Winchburgh at about 17:05 - think it was 844

Quite a few have happened this week on both new routes with a mix of the former Lothian Motorcoaches, ex-London and hybrid buses all being used. It must've been 844 as all the rest track as intended and haven't been out on a run today. 846 is still at Longstone, 841/3 haven't been out, 845 remains at Volvo in Broxburn and 842 is on the NHS shuttle.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Quite a few have happened this week on both new routes with a mix of the former Lothian Motorcoaches, ex-London and hybrid buses all being used. It must've been 844 as all the rest track as intended and haven't been out on a run today. 846 is still at Longstone, 841/3 haven't been out, 845 remains at Volvo in Broxburn and 842 is on the NHS shuttle.

It can't be, 844 was last tracked today at Musselburgh.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It can't be, 844 was last tracked today at Musselburgh.

844s tracker is frozen and stuck at Musselburgh. It's not there.

 

[Humberscot]

Quite a few have happened this week on both new routes with a mix of the former Lothian Motorcoaches, ex-London and hybrid buses all being used. It must've been 844 as all the rest track as intended and haven't been out on a run today. 846 is still at Longstone, 841/3 haven't been out, 845 remains at Volvo in Broxburn and 842 is on the NHS shuttle.

I was quite a distance away - 844 is my best guess, but stand to be corrected! Definitely one of that batch of former 57 plates.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Looks like there will be some adjustments to the X27/8 timetables on the 15th October as well - registrations have come in today. I wouldn't expect too much, although likely will explain what the 6:56 service 72 will do. It terminates at Livingston at 7:51 yet the next one isn't scheduled till 9:10. I've also noticed the first X40 from Royal Infirmary arrives at 7:50 but the next departure from St. Johns Hospital isn't till 8:37 so this may also explain what that bus then changes to, if anything. I'm guessing the 7:30 service 72 from Livingston will then operate light to Queensferry and start the 8:40 43 to Edinburgh. I can't tell where the 9:10 72 from Kirkliston comes from, though..

Also, I don't think it has been mentioned here yet - 172 has been repainted and will return to service at Lothian soon, likely due to the extra 48 being added in the morning.

 

[mb88]

I can't tell where the 9:10 72 from Kirkliston comes from, though..

I expect this will come off service from the garage since the timetable lists it as commencing service from Kirkliston Crossroads instead of Kirklands Park. So will probably come along the A89 to the Newbridge traffic lights turn left and then left again at the cross instead of going round the loop. The other two buses start in service at Uphall.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I expect this will come off service from the garage since the timetable lists it as commencing service from Kirkliston Crossroads instead of Kirklands Park. So will probably come along the A89 to the Newbridge traffic lights turn left and then left again at the cross instead of going round the loop. The other two buses start in service at Uphall.

The first two that start at Uphall will come straight from the depot, the X18 currently does this.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Looks like there will be some adjustments to the X27/8 timetables on the 15th October as well - registrations have come in today. I wouldn't expect too much, although likely will explain what the 6:56 service 72 will do. It terminates at Livingston at 7:51 yet the next one isn't scheduled till 9:10. I've also noticed the first X40 from Royal Infirmary arrives at 7:50 but the next departure from St. Johns Hospital isn't till 8:37 so this may also explain what that bus then changes to, if anything. I'm guessing the 7:30 service 72 from Livingston will then operate light to Queensferry and start the 8:40 43 to Edinburgh. I can't tell where the 9:10 72 from Kirkliston comes from, though..

Also, I don't think it has been mentioned here yet - 172 has been repainted and will return to service at Lothian soon, likely due to the extra 48 being added in the morning.

Looks like there will be more buses on the X27 at peaks - https://news.westlothian.gov.uk/article/79368/Bus-service-improvements-for-Calderwood

Council Executive have approved plans to use developer contributions to enhance bus services for the growing core development area.

Following a competitive tender exercise, Lothian County will deliver additional journeys on their X27 Bathgate to Edinburgh via Calderwood service, subject to approval from the Traffic Commissioner.

Data showed that demand for morning peak time journeys from Calderwood to Edinburgh rose by 70% between June 2022 and June 2023, showing an increase in demand for bus services.

The funding has been provided by developer contributions from Stirling Developments, as part of the Public Transport Strategy for the growing community. This pump-prime funding will allow the service to be established for the three years, with the aim of becoming commercially viable without subsidy in the future.

Executive councillor for the environment and sustainability Tom Conn said: "I'm delighted to see improvements in the bus network to meet the rising demand from the growing development of Calderwood.

"Whilst the council does not have the resources to fill all the gaps in the commercial bus network, we can make best use of any funding streams, such as developer contributions, to benefit our communities.

"Similar to the soon-to-be launched 72 bus service for Winchburgh, using the money that developers are legally required to give us for bus services allows us to provide or improve services we would not otherwise be able to support.

"I would also encourage local residents to make good use of the service when it launches later this year to make sure it can become commercially viable in the future as the current support only covers the next three years."

The council has maintained funding for public transport to support public transport, despite facing a £39 million budget gap over the next five years. We aim to make sure that 90% of local residents have access to an hourly or better service daytime service Monday to Saturday.

172 has gained the newer seat moquette.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Looks like there will be more buses on the X27 at peaks - https://news.westlothian.gov.uk/article/79368/Bus-service-improvements-for-Calderwood

This is great news.

 

[stevenedin]

Looks like there will be more buses on the X27 at peaks - https://news.westlothian.gov.uk/article/79368/Bus-service-improvements-for-Calderwood


172 has gained the newer seat moquette.

Are they getting mixed up with the X40 going there as well after the changes or is there also an increase in the X27?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Are they getting mixed up with the X40 going there as well after the changes or is there also an increase in the X27?

Following a competitive tender exercise, Lothian County will deliver additional journeys on their X27 Bathgate to Edinburgh via Calderwood service, subject to approval from the Traffic Commissioner.

It's for the X27. Explains why the registration for the X27/8 new timetable came slightly later.

 

[danielhogg2005]

It's for the X27. Explains why the registration for the X27/8 new timetable came slightly later.

Why hasn't Lothian announced anything on their website yet?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Why hasn't Lothian announced anything on their website yet?

I'm guessing that they are waiting for the Lothian change on Sunday to be moved out the way.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Theres a chance management at Mcgills have had a plan set for Livingston for a while and they are just slowly implementing it and eventually something will happen (good or bad).

 

[overthewater]

Can someone explain what is happening to the X27? I thought the council has done magic trick with the funding thus the following was going to happen:

X40; Hourly
X27: Hourly with few extra Peak runs
X28: Now 20/40 timetable

X27/28: Will still be mainly every 20mins during the day
X27/40 will operate every 30min between Calderwood - Livingston

 

[Numpt33]

Was that Midlothian or Edinburgh Council? Rather than being 'up to the council' as a rule, my understanding is that councils can provide information if the operators are unable or unwilling to put publicity into cases that a council provide. So it only becomes a council responsibility if operators don't do it themselves.
In some council areas there could be many different small operators serving each stop so it makes sense for the council to collect data together and draw up a summary. In Edinburgh there are very few operators outside Lothian Buses, who prefer to make their own timetable sheets anyway. As you say, Edinburgh Council won't employ staff to keep an eye on the small number of non-Lothian changes and operators who don't supply their own publicity will generally be at a disadvantage.
Edinburgh flags on the other hand are a bit different, where I believe staff from Lothian Buses make changes to the council's flags for all operators to the best of their knowledge. This is probably drawn from the Traveline database, registration documents or similar.

No, it's the Council's responsibility - back in the 1980s, they discussed allowing operators to manage their own stops, in the same manner as Hong Kong, but that would have led to a proliferation of bus stops of the ilk of the e-scooter fad. They prevented this being privatised at the time, which shows just how the quality of Parliamentarians (even Tories) has declined precipitously since then. Stops are Council property, but they need to be told that the routes have changed. Knowing how Councils are typically run, someone will have to keep an eye open for the Traffic Commissioner changing routes etc. so if whoever is off sick, or retired, or the position is vacant it may well be the case that the Council is unaware of the change.

In my own encounters with Councils, I have quoted the NaPTAN reference whenever complaining about bus stops etc. and they have always responded asking for the street address.

NaPTAN = National Public Transport Access Node - it is a unique identifier for every bus stop, stance, train platform, and possibly ferry terminal in Great Britain.

 

[Baileygirl]

No, it's the Council's responsibility - back in the 1980s, they discussed allowing operators to manage their own stops, in the same manner as Hong Kong, but that would have led to a proliferation of bus stops of the ilk of the e-scooter fad. They prevented this being privatised at the time, which shows just how the quality of Parliamentarians (even Tories) has declined precipitously since then. Stops are Council property, but they need to be told that the routes have changed. Knowing how Councils are typically run, someone will have to keep an eye open for the Traffic Commissioner changing routes etc. so if whoever is off sick, or retired, or the position is vacant it may well be the case that the Council is unaware of the change.

In my own encounters with Councils, I have quoted the NaPTAN reference whenever complaining about bus stops etc. and they have always responded asking for the street address.

NaPTAN = National Public Transport Access Node - it is a unique identifier for every bus stop, stance, train platform, and possibly ferry terminal in Great Britain.

Council may own the bus stops in Edinburgh, but Lothian Buses are responsible for any changes of the route numbers. Individual operators maintain the casings. I have often seen a Lothian Buses service van and the driver up a ladder at bus stops changing them. They were often slow in changing stops where First operated. In West Lothian the council puts timetable listing at bus stops.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Council may own the bus stops in Edinburgh, but Lothian Buses are responsible for any changes of the route numbers. Individual operators maintain the casings. I have often seen a Lothian Buses service van and the driver up a ladder at bus stops changing them. They were often slow in changing stops where First operated. In West Lothian the council puts timetable listing at bus stops.

I feel at West Lothian bus stops, Lothian Buses should make their timetable casings for the stops like in East and Midlothian because I find the timetable very basic and sometimes hard to follow, but that is for a different thread.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I feel at West Lothian bus stops, Lothian Buses should make their timetable casings for the stops like in East and Midlothian because I find the timetable very basic and sometimes hard to follow, but that is for a different thread.

Are you on about the one that doesn't show you the stops after the one you board? They use those ones in East Lothian and Midlothian too.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Are you on about the one that doesn't show you the stops after the one you board? They use those ones in East Lothian and Midlothian too.

Yes, I prefer the Lothian one as shown in image below, it's just the one I got off Google because I didn't have any other photos but you get the point.

Where in East or Midlothian doesn't have these?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Yes, I prefer the Lothian one as shown in image below, it's just the one I got off Google because I didn't have any other photos but you get the point.

Where in East or Midlothian doesn't have these?

I thought you meant those were the simple ones. Midlothian and East Lothian have these ones.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I thought you meant those were the simple ones. Midlothian and East Lothian have these ones.

West Lothian has the simple ones which can make it more difficult to understand, and they are also outdated, the last time I was in Livingstin Centre Stance E still had the 275 on the timetable, I would prefer for Lothian Country to have the ones that they have in the Edinburgh bus stops.

 

[318266]

West Lothian has the simple ones which can make it more difficult to understand, and they are also outdated, the last time I was in Livingstin Centre Stance E still had the 275 on the timetable, I would prefer for Lothian Country to have the ones that they have in the Edinburgh bus stops.

I wouldn't mind that if ALL operators services were on there, which they aren't

 

[stevenedin]

I wouldn't mind that if ALL operators services were on there, which they aren't

West Lothian used to have a really good one that had all operators on it. They used to show the first bus in the morning until the last at night and it said the route number and time and at the top it had a key to show which route is operated by which operator.