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December 2023 Timetable Change

craigybagel

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To be fair if a town has an infrequent service fewer people will bother with it in the first place. Two hours is pretty inconvenient!
Indeed, but Nantwich only gets a 2 hourly service for a few hours in the middle of the day. Fill in those gaps with Cardiff services by all means, but there are much higher priorities for TfW than running the local hourly - and that's got nothing to do with the line being in England.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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Presumably the Redhill <> Gatwick times are likely to have to stay as they are, given how busy that line is.
The Slows which GWR use have plenty of capacity and now the 9R's run through to Three Bridges they have P1 or P2 available for longer turn rounds as they are rather tight now given most passengers have hefty bags to get on off the train. Despite short turnaround GWR crews are exemplary in trying to achieve the turnarounds given they have to do it all again when they get up to Redhill. Puts plenty of operators to shame.
 

Sussex Star

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Very disappointed to see that all the timetable padding that was put on the Arun Valley->London route (and possibly others) due to the Gatwick Airport works is still in place. Journeys up to London are still taking 5 minutes longer than before the airport works, even though they're almost complete. Trains just wait at Three Bridges and Gatwick. When will this be removed, do you think?
 

Peregrine 4903

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Very disappointed to see that all the timetable padding that was put on the Arun Valley->London route (and possibly others) due to the Gatwick Airport works is still in place. Journeys up to London are still taking 5 minutes longer than before the airport works, even though they're almost complete. Trains just wait at Three Bridges and Gatwick. When will this be removed, do you think?
It won't be. Timetable doesn't work if it's removed. There is also freight in the way in some hours now.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Well that's a bit of a blow. They certainly didn't say that when they added the minutes!

That’s a really good example of how decelerating a service (either by sub-optimal pathing or padding time) becomes a permanent feature as it ends up being baked in place by other adjacent service patterns. Timetable planners take note!
 

Peregrine 4903

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That’s a really good example of how decelerating a service (either by sub-optimal pathing or padding time) becomes a permanent feature as it ends up being baked in place by other adjacent service patterns. Timetable planners take note!
Its massively improved performance though.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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One improvement that doesn’t appear to have been picked up on - GWR have made some enhancements to capacity on the London to Bristol route on Saturday mornings:

1030 Paddington-Bristol TM now extends to Exeter St Davids, no longer calls at Weston SM
1045 Paddington-Weston SM (via Bath) is a new service - appears to run fast Reading-Chippenham!

0918 Bristol TM-Paddington (via Bath) is a new service

There are also some new short workings between London and Swindon, pathed as a mix of 80x and 387s, filling most of the previously vacant xx13-15 slots in the down direction (note that the missing Cardiff trains don’t appear to be returning on Saturdays.) In the Up direction the balancing workings are a bit more varied depending on the hour, presumably down to pathing availability into London.

From personal experience trains on this route on Saturday mornings can be incredibly busy particularly between Chippenham and Bath so this seems a positive demand-led step by GWR.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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One improvement that doesn’t appear to have been picked up on - GWR have made some enhancements to capacity on the London to Bristol route on Saturday mornings:

1030 Paddington-Bristol TM now extends to Exeter St Davids, no longer calls at Weston SM
1045 Paddington-Weston SM (via Bath) is a new service - appears to run fast Reading-Chippenham!

0918 Bristol TM-Paddington (via Bath) is a new service

There are also some new short workings between London and Swindon, pathed as a mix of 80x and 387s, filling most of the previously vacant xx13-15 slots in the down direction (note that the missing Cardiff trains don’t appear to be returning on Saturdays.) In the Up direction the balancing workings are a bit more varied depending on the hour, presumably down to pathing availability into London.

From personal experience trains on this route on Saturday mornings can be incredibly busy particularly between Chippenham and Bath so this seems a positive demand-led step by GWR.

Wow that's good!!!
 

mangyiscute

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One improvement that doesn’t appear to have been picked up on - GWR have made some enhancements to capacity on the London to Bristol route on Saturday mornings:

1030 Paddington-Bristol TM now extends to Exeter St Davids, no longer calls at Weston SM
1045 Paddington-Weston SM (via Bath) is a new service - appears to run fast Reading-Chippenham!

0918 Bristol TM-Paddington (via Bath) is a new service

There are also some new short workings between London and Swindon, pathed as a mix of 80x and 387s, filling most of the previously vacant xx13-15 slots in the down direction (note that the missing Cardiff trains don’t appear to be returning on Saturdays.) In the Up direction the balancing workings are a bit more varied depending on the hour, presumably down to pathing availability into London.

From personal experience trains on this route on Saturday mornings can be incredibly busy particularly between Chippenham and Bath so this seems a positive demand-led step by GWR.
I would not be surprised to see extra stops added in these trains - for example not having at least a Taunton stop in the Bristol to Exeter seems kinda crazy
 

Nicholas Lewis

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That’s a really good example of how decelerating a service (either by sub-optimal pathing or padding time) becomes a permanent feature as it ends up being baked in place by other adjacent service patterns. Timetable planners take note!
Indeed its great how NR tells us that all the disruption to journeys will be worth it as it will result in faster and more reliable journeys for our passengers once completed. Seems that when they say faster what they really mean is more chance that your journey wont be delayed as you rarely see a project or new rolling stock being exploited. There was once a time when reduced journey time was the key driver to increased revenue but perhaps thats now weakened in favour of journey reliability?
 

43074

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Its massively improved performance though.
Nah performance on the BML has always been a problem - removing splitting and joining at Haywards Heath has helped but the timetable is still tight and not particularly well performing in places.

It was the same when Derby was rebuilt in 2018, we were told XC services would be accelerated by removing the extended dwells northbound only for about 4 services to benefit, and fewer than that post-Covid.

Indeed its great how NR tells us that all the disruption to journeys will be worth it as it will result in faster and more reliable journeys for our passengers once completed. Seems that when they say faster what they really mean is more chance that your journey wont be delayed as you rarely see a project or new rolling stock being exploited. There was once a time when reduced journey time was the key driver to increased revenue but perhaps thats now weakened in favour of journey reliability?
Seems to vary between journey time and padding for performance depending on which way the wind blows every few years. Under Andrew Adonis there was a drive for journey times hence the 4 hour Edinburgh to London introduced in May 2011, but the journey times in the East Coast Recast are comparatively poor, presumably for "performance".
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I would not be surprised to see extra stops added in these trains - for example not having at least a Taunton stop in the Bristol to Exeter seems kinda crazy

I suspect it’s down to the path - seems a bit tight through Taunton as it’s just ahead of the 1103 Padd-Plymouth.
 

Peregrine 4903

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Nah performance on the BML has always been a problem - removing splitting and joining at Haywards Heath has helped but the timetable is still tight and not particularly well performing in places.

It was the same when Derby was rebuilt in 2018, we were told XC services would be accelerated by removing the extended dwells northbound only for about 4 services to benefit, and fewer than that post-Covid.


Seems to vary between journey time and padding for performance depending on which way the wind blows every few years. Under Andrew Adonis there was a drive for journey times hence the 4 hour Edinburgh to London introduced in May 2011, but the journey times in the East Coast Recast are comparatively poor, presumably for "performance".
It's performing a lot better than it has been previously. Particularly with far more padded Southern service around Gatwick Airport. B
 

mangyiscute

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I do think that say if someone is taking a 50 minute journey, they are more likely to be put off by the train being 5 minutes late half the time compared to the train actually being timetabled to take 55 minutes and having to sit in a station half the time.
 

cle

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Being on time with 5 mins slack, Vs being 5 mins late (not always) is ostensibly the same thing. Let’s not take people for fools, to be grateful for slower journeys due to ‘performance’. It’s slower. Many journeys under the older timetable will have been on time. Gaslighting, railway style.
 

43074

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It's performing a lot better than it has been previously. Particularly with far more padded Southern service around Gatwick Airport. B
The main thing for ensuring the BML performs well (northbound) is making sure Southern services present at Preston Park/Keymer Jn/Three Bridges right time - having lots of padding particularly around somewhere like Gatwick just causes congestion. The West Coastway recast in June should help but I stand by my point that removing attach and detach at Haywards Heath is the main thing which has made the BML work better in recent years.

As far as Gatwick is concerned having sensible dwell times and not bunching services together too much are more effective at maintaining good performance than padding stuff out, the current timetable in that area does neither.
 

Peregrine 4903

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The main thing for ensuring the BML performs well (northbound) is making sure Southern services present at Preston Park/Keymer Jn/Three Bridges right time - having lots of padding particularly around somewhere like Gatwick just causes congestion. The West Coastway recast in June should help but I stand by my point that removing attach and detach at Haywards Heath is the main thing which has made the BML work better in recent years.

As far as Gatwick is concerned having sensible dwell times and not bunching services together too much are more effective at maintaining good performance than padding stuff out, the current timetable in that area does neither.
I agree with your first point but I don't agree with the latter.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The main thing for ensuring the BML performs well (northbound) is making sure Southern services present at Preston Park/Keymer Jn/Three Bridges right time - having lots of padding particularly around somewhere like Gatwick just causes congestion. The West Coastway recast in June should help but I stand by my point that removing attach and detach at Haywards Heath is the main thing which has made the BML work better in recent years.

As far as Gatwick is concerned having sensible dwell times and not bunching services together too much are more effective at maintaining good performance than padding stuff out, the current timetable in that area does neither.
Indeed now the Up Arun Valleys cross over on North side of Gatwick they sit there for scheduled 4m but invariably the 1Mxx up in front of it has a late departure causing the 1C's to end up over time.Then it doesn't take much delay to block the 9J on the down slow. Some slack in the schedules is necessary but it would be better spreading that 4m out at E.Croydon where station overtime are frequent with platform despatch unlike Thameslink who even under heavy loadings can outperform Southern dwell times by 10-15s.
 

Freeston

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Castleford are getting quite excited about the prospect of a direct train to York and Manchester although it'll be interesting to see the timings compared to just changing at Leeds...

Any ideas on the calling points Castleford - York?
After Castleford the trains will stop at Sherborne-in-Elmet only before terminating at York.

Castleford are getting quite excited about the prospect of a direct train to York and Manchester although it'll be interesting to see the timings compared to just changing at Leeds...

Any ideas on the calling points Castleford - York?
Sherborne-in-Elmet only.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Another incremental improvement to GWR - on Saturdays from December change. Exeter-Paignton appears to get a late night local service again, and there is an extra round trip on the Exmouth branch in the late evening.
 

James Finch

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Plus Mountfitchet once per hour.
So is Stansted going to 2 airport services per hour then? We are currently at 1tph to the airport, and 1tph to Cambridge which is rather insufficient.

(Adding a stop to the 2nd Cambridge service would be preferred though)
 

hexagon789

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This is welcome news, although the stopping pattern is still to be announced/confirmed...
Looks like:

XX:10 - Tottenham Hale & Bishops Stortford
XX:25 - Tottenham Hale & Harlow Town
XX:40 - Tottenham Hale & Bishops Stortford
XX:55 - Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town & Stansted Mountfitchet

Same in reverse with the XX:15 stopping at Mountfitchet.
 

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