Scotrail to remove Peak Fares - six month pilot

[Paul Kelly]

We’re working hard to update our booking systems with all the new prices. These are expected to be available from w/c 18 September, for travel from 2 October. We’ll confirm on this page when systems are fully updated.

This reads as if there's no restriction on systems showing the new fares before 18 September, so I have updated BR Fares to show them already (if you select the appropriate future date option). Incidentally the date of 2 October seems wrong - as far as I can see from checking a few flows, the new fares apply from 1 October - can anyone else confirm?

Edit: it seems to also apply to 1st class fares which doesn't seem that logical to me, unless they are hoping people might be tempted to upgrade?

 

[hexagon789]

This reads as if there's no restriction on systems showing the new fares before 18 September, so I have updated BR Fares to show them already (if you select the appropriate future date option). Incidentally the date of 2 October seems wrong - as far as I can see from checking a few flows, the new fares apply from 1 October - can anyone else confirm?

Edit: it seems to also apply to 1st class fares which doesn't seem that logical to me, unless they are hoping people might be tempted to upgrade?

Given they've been stating they won't be valid outside ScotRail services, I think there's a lot of details not being briefed properly or made clear.

 

[route101]

Very much looking forward to this pilot starting. A couple of thoughts/questions:

• wonder how this will impact pre 9am demand on glasgow suburb routes; and
• More generally how it will impact on people attending glasgow city centre offices.
• 
  
• My friend made a cynical suggestion that - if they agree to remove peak fares, is there a chance they then increase the fare overall to somewhere between the off and on peak price?
• 
  
• Edinburgh-Glasgow line - I can only see the peak demand go up for that. Is there 15min frequency during peaks on the via Falkirk High line? If not might they need to up it? I know that unless you can afford it or travelling for business, you would tend to get the pre or post Peak trains to get the discount.
• Linked to the above- how might this impact on citylink 900? I know slightly different market. However they managed to take advantage of the significant rail cost to attract customers, as well as the rail strikes.

They now have two different return fares on the 900, a day return and period return. Before there was just a period return.

Services are still only every 15 minute at the peaks and on Saturday.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Given they've been stating they won't be valid outside ScotRail services, I think there's a lot of details not being briefed properly or made clear.

ScotRail owned flows isn't it not ScotRail services which is very different?

 

[Watershed]

ScotRail owned flows isn't it not ScotRail services which is very different?

Indeed. Dunbar to Edinburgh passengers continue to be royally shafted by the fact that the flow is priced by LNER rather than ScotRail - despite ScotRail providing the vast majority of services.

Not only have they seen price increases of up to 18% due to LNER's so-called "single leg" pricing scheme, they will now continue to have to pay Anytime fares for early morning services.

 

[alistairlees]

This reads as if there's no restriction on systems showing the new fares before 18 September, so I have updated BR Fares to show them already (if you select the appropriate future date option). Incidentally the date of 2 October seems wrong - as far as I can see from checking a few flows, the new fares apply from 1 October - can anyone else confirm?

Edit: it seems to also apply to 1st class fares which doesn't seem that logical to me, unless they are hoping people might be tempted to upgrade?

Yes, it's from Sunday 1st October for 6 months. Though I guess that people will only see the effect from Monday 2nd October.

 

[Bletchleyite]

These now appear to be in brfares.com. Curiously they haven't been done by putting 8A (or whatever) on the Off Peaks, but rather the Off Peaks have no restriction code at all (thus e.g. break of journey is allowed in both directions). The Anytime has also been reduced to the same as the relevant Off Peak, so you can buy either as you prefer (better to choose the Anytime for a non-Day trip, because you get longer outward validity).

 

[Haywain]

These now appear to be in Realtime Trains.

RTT? Do you mean BRFares?

 

[Wallsendmag]

These now appear to be in Realtime Trains. Curiously they haven't been done by putting 8A (or whatever) on the Off Peaks, but rather the Off Peaks have no restriction code at all (thus e.g. break of journey is allowed in both directions). The Anytime has also been reduced to the same as the relevant Off Peak, so you can buy either as you prefer (better to choose the Anytime for a non-Day trip, because you get longer outward validity).

Doing it that way is going to cause chaos with the TVMs in Edinburgh

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT? Do you mean BRFares?

I'm going mad. Of course I mean BRfares. Edited.

Doing it that way is going to cause chaos with the TVMs in Edinburgh

How? It'll just show two fares the same, for most people it won't matter which they pick.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm going mad. Of course I mean BRfares. Edited.



How? It'll just show two fares the same, for most people it won't matter which they pick.

The TVM checks the restriction codes for Off Peak tickets before it issues the ticket, if there isn't one it'll fail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TVM checks the restriction codes for Off Peak tickets before it issues the ticket, if there isn't one it'll fail.

Oops. Guess LNER will need to patch that then.

To be fair though most people will probably just select the Anytime. There doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to doing so.

 

[CyrusWuff]

A quick check of various web TIS has revealed no issues with the restriction code being removed for off-peak tickets on relevant flows.

I'll have to check on TVMs tomorrow when I'm back at work.

 

[Haywain]

Oops. Guess LNER will need to patch that then.

To be fair though most people will probably just select the Anytime. There doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to doing so.

Agreed, it's difficult to see how it can be a problem. Although experience suggests that the reason it is a problem will become clear in due course. However, I would say that the issue is for Scotrail to resolve rather than LNER.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The TVM checks the restriction codes for Off Peak tickets before it issues the ticket, if there isn't one it'll fail.

Sorry missed out the bit that this is for ToD

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, it's difficult to see how it can be a problem. Although experience suggests that the reason it is a problem will become clear in due course. However, I would say that the issue is for Scotrail to resolve rather than LNER.

Is it noncompliant to have an Off Peak with no restriction code?

 

[Haywain]

Sorry missed out the bit that this is for ToD

Ah, that problem wasn't a lack of a restriction code, it was the lack of detail for a restriction code. So, it might not be a problem.

Is it noncompliant to have an Off Peak with no restriction code?

I have no idea, but I'm not aware of any that don't have a restriction code.

 

[kkong]

Sorry missed out the bit that this is for ToD

Why would the TVM need to check anything to do with restriction codes before printing a ToD?

It is not selling a ticket, just printing one which has already been purchased.

However, I would say that the issue is for Scotrail to resolve rather than LNER.

Depends if the issue (if there is one) is only with LNER's TVMs?

 

[Haywain]

Depends if the issue (if there is one) is only with LNER's TVMs?

It equally depends on whether Scotrail are doing what the industry requires of them. If they are, then it may be LNER's problem but if they are not it is definitely their problem.

 

[Watershed]

The TVM checks the restriction codes for Off Peak tickets before it issues the ticket, if there isn't one it'll fail.

These aren't the only Off-Peak tickets without a restriction code - TfW set a few such tickets. In any event, if the TVMs were sensibly programmed, they'd be able to handle a non-existent restriction code...

 

[Gaelan]

These now appear to be in brfares.com. Curiously they haven't been done by putting 8A (or whatever) on the Off Peaks, but rather the Off Peaks have no restriction code at all (thus e.g. break of journey is allowed in both directions). The Anytime has also been reduced to the same as the relevant Off Peak, so you can buy either as you prefer (better to choose the Anytime for a non-Day trip, because you get longer outward validity).

Finally, an answer to my question about Leuchars/Cupar to Edinburgh! They've kept both the "off-peak" return and the "off-peak" day return, but now the only difference between the two is the "day" bit. (Formerly the day return also had an evening peak, where the non-day return didn't.)

Also, a fare anomaly: on Leuchars-Thruso, any permitted route, the single now costs significantly more than the return.

 

[kkong]

Also, a fare anomaly: on Leuchars-Thruso, any permitted route, the single now costs significantly more than the return.

Cross Country's operator-specific fares on many flows on the Aberdeen-Edinburgh corridor were always ludicrously expensive for a very restricted selection of trains.

e.g. the Off-Peak Return (XC Only) from Aberdeen-Edinburgh (valid on ONE train per day, in the evening), is £58.80 compared to the Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) at £60.90.

Some of the XC fares are simply redundant outliers now, e.g. the Anytime Return (XC Only) (valid on up to TWO trains per day!) is £73.40 while the Anytime Return (Any Permitted) is £60.90.

To be fair though most people will probably just select the Anytime. There doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to doing so.

One exception being those with a Club 50 card: 10% discount* on Off-Peak tickets, but no discount on Anytime.

* A 10% discount applies for tickets bought at a TVM; it's 20% if bought on the ScotRail website or app.

I'm not sure if LNER's TVMs even allow selection of the Club 50 railcard? Their website doesn't - but should it?

 

[Wallsendmag]

These aren't the only Off-Peak tickets without a restriction code - TfW set a few such tickets. In any event, if the TVMs were sensibly programmed, they'd be able to handle a non-existent restriction code...

Funny thats more or less what we said.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Indeed. Dunbar to Edinburgh passengers continue to be royally shafted by the fact that the flow is priced by LNER rather than ScotRail - despite ScotRail providing the vast majority of services.

Not only have they seen price increases of up to 18% due to LNER's so-called "single leg" pricing scheme, they will now continue to have to pay Anytime fares for early morning services.

Scotrail don't operate the vast majority of services, in fact they operate approx than 28% they do not even operate the most trains calling there overall never mind a majority

so going by your logic that flow should be priced by Transpennine then?

 

[hexagon789]

so going by your logic that flow should be priced by Transpennine then?

Isn't the Off-Peak Day Return set by TPE?

 

[Haywain]

Isn't the Off-Peak Day Return set by TPE?

The 'TPE only' Day Return? Yes, unsurprisingly, it is set by TPE.

 

[hexagon789]

The 'TPE only' Day Return? Yes, unsurprisingly, it is set by TPE.

It just says 'Off-peak Day Return' on what I'm looking at.

 

[kkong]

Scotrail don't operate the vast majority of services, in fact they operate approx than 28% they do not even operate the most trains calling there overall never mind a majority

so going by your logic that flow should be priced by Transpennine then?

Since LNER's pioneering elimination of return tickets, TPE are the only operator on the route which offers Return tickets (but they are only valid on TPE).

LNER offer singles only but they are not operator restricted.

 

[wilbers]

Indeed. Dunbar to Edinburgh passengers continue to be royally shafted by the fact that the flow is priced by LNER rather than ScotRail - despite ScotRail providing the vast majority of services.

Not only have they seen price increases of up to 18% due to LNER's so-called "single leg" pricing scheme, they will now continue to have to pay Anytime fares for early morning services.

So to get a return from Dunbar to Edinburgh (and wanting to use services other than Transpennine) they have to buy something like a Dunbar to Brunstane return, at a smidge higher price than the non-existent Dunbar to Edinburgh return would have been?

Also saw Golf Street on the map of Scottish railway stations - never heard of it before (along with Barry Links next to it). Both of them barely used according to wikipedia.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

As per the title, peak fares have been withdrawn for a 6-month trial period in Scotland, to try to stimulate demand and encourage greener travel.
Super Off Peak tickets have also been withdrawn, however, leading to higher fares for some journeys.
Thoughts on this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66972609

Peak-time rail fares have been scrapped on ScotRail services from Monday as part of a six-month pilot scheme.
The cost of a rush hour ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh has almost halved in an initiative aimed at boosting rail travel.
ScotRail has warned customers that trains may be busier than usual during the Scottish government-funded pilot.
Additional carriages have been added to some services, and the operator said it would be monitoring the situation.
The savings will only apply to routes where peak-time pricing existed previously.