Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

[cwjohnstone]

TL Three Bridges splitting into 2 links. Link 1 add canal tunnels, Finsbury Park and Hornsey depot.

 

[16CSVT2700]

GWR Reading/Swindon (ZU) from 21/05/23

Link	0	1	2	3	4	5	ZU
Basingstoke	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Bedwyn	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N
Newbury	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Gatwick	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N
Henley	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	Y
Marlow	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	Y
Oxford	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	N
Paddington	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Windsor	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N
Cardiff	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y
Swindon	Y	Y	N	N	N	N	Y
Swindon Cocklebury	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y
SWI-WSB via Melksham	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N
BDW-WSB	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N
165/166	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
387	N	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
80X	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	Y
387 HX	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N

 

[craigybagel]

A few hours early, but I've updated everything to take into account the changes from the new timetable starting tomorrow.

This has involved deleting the following routes:
Greater Anglia Cambridge: Ely - Kings Lynn
GWR Bristol Parkway: Hereford - Newport
Northern Manchester Victoria: Stalybridge - Huddersfield & Stockport - Hazel Grove
TFW Shrewsbury: Wolverhampton - Birmingham via Bescot

I've added the following routes
MTR Crossrail all depots that didn't previously sign them: Liverpool Street HL & Paddington HL
Thameslink Three Bridges: St Pancras - Finsbury Park

I've deleted the following tractions from all depots that previously signed them
EMR: 156 & 180
Greater Anglia: 321 (this was overdue from a while ago)
Southern: 313
TfW: 769
WMR: 170

I've also updated GWR Reading to take into account the vary useful graph above, and various depots at TFW to take into account the current stage of traction training and changes to the link structure at Crewe.

As always, if there's anything I've missed, please let me know.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Southern Redhill drivers recently lost Redhill to Reading when the contract with GWR was terminated.

They’ve only lost Reigate to Reading.

GWR Gloucester loose HSTs from the new timetable (though like all the ones listed from the timetable change, not everyone drops traction immediately - depends partly on TOC)

 

[chriswedge100@]

MTR Elizabeth line - Maidenhead drivers exclude Whitechapel- Shenfield but include Liverpool Street High Street - looks odd?

 

[craigybagel]

MTR Elizabeth line - Maidenhead drivers exclude Whitechapel- Shenfield but include Liverpool Street High Street - looks odd?

I'm trying to get to the bottom of that one, I've got different people telling me different things at the moment. I'll update when I get clarification. Most likely over misunderstood something somewhere.

 

[iphone76]

The rationale is that if a Maidenhead driver gets diverted away from Abbey Wood towards Stratford due to an issue on the AW branch, they can get the train out of the way, either back into the COS or to Liverpool Street High Level. I believe at one stage they tried to say that route knowledge wasn't needed as the train was under the CBTC system, but Network Rail thought otherwise.

As per OOC, they don't have any booked work into Liverpool Street High Level (as Ilford, Gidea Park and Shenfield don't into Paddington High Level), so it's all maintained via route retention days.

We have been told that TfL have insisted that all drivers sign the entire route, so eventually this will change. (Hence GP and Shenfield Drivers have started learning out to Reading).

I hope that helps. (And is correct - it was the last time I was in!)

 

[Horizon22]

The rationale is that if a Maidenhead driver gets diverted away from Abbey Wood towards Stratford due to an issue on the AW branch, they can get the train out of the way, either back into the COS or to Liverpool Street High Level. I believe at one stage they tried to say that route knowledge wasn't needed as the train was under the CBTC system, but Network Rail thought otherwise.

As per OOC, they don't have any booked work into Liverpool Street High Level (as Ilford, Gidea Park and Shenfield don't into Paddington High Level), so it's all maintained via route retention days.

We have been told that TfL have insisted that all drivers sign the entire route, so eventually this will change. (Hence GP and Shenfield Drivers have started learning out to Reading).

I hope that helps. (And is correct - it was the last time I was in!)

Also it's important contingency. The intention seemed to be that competency dropped off, but with the amount of services that get diverted to either Paddington/Liverpool Street if there is a problem, this seems to have been quickly noted this wasn't a sustainable option. Route retention trips are indeed intended to run every day - here's one running via Royal Oak sidings

Seems to be quite far away from actually all depots actually signing both High Level stations on their route card though.

 

[iphone76]

Also it's important contingency. The intention seemed to be that competency dropped off, but with the amount of services that get diverted to either Paddington/Liverpool Street if there is a problem, this seems to have been quickly noted this wasn't a sustainable option. Route retention trips are indeed intended to run every day - here's one running via Royal Oak sidings

Seems to be quite far away from actually all depots actually signing both High Level stations on their route card though.

Pretty much everyone on the East Side signs Paddington high level. In fact we are constantly reminded/baggered about it and updating our training records. I'm told that passes have recently been made available to front end GWR and HEX services too.

I can't speak for the other side, but I believe it is a similar situation so most of us do sign both.

There are still standby drivers based at Ealing Broadway and Stratford in case a driver cannot go into the high level platforms. As you say, we were told we would be losing the "opposite" terminal to our home depot, but this was hastily changed once through running commenced. Who would have thought it! Lol

 

[craigybagel]

Also it's important contingency. The intention seemed to be that competency dropped off, but with the amount of services that get diverted to either Paddington/Liverpool Street if there is a problem, this seems to have been quickly noted this wasn't a sustainable option. Route retention trips are indeed intended to run every day - here's one running via Royal Oak sidings

Seems to be quite far away from actually all depots actually signing both High Level stations on their route card though.

Pretty much everyone on the East Side signs Paddington high level. In fact we are constantly reminded/baggered about it and updating our training records. I'm told that passes have recently been made available to front end GWR and HEX services too.

I can't speak for the other side, but I believe it is a similar situation so most of us do sign both.

There are still standby drivers based at Ealing Broadway and Stratford in case a driver cannot go into the high level platforms. As you say, we were told we would be losing the "opposite" terminal to our home depot, but this was hastily changed once through running commenced. Who would have thought it! Lol

Are drivers from every depot currently learning the sides they don't already know, or is it being done on a depot by depot basis?

Also, what is the current situation with Maidenhead, given it doesn't sign the rest of the line out to Shenfield so presumably won't sign Liverpool Street HL until it does?

 

[iphone76]

Yes. The latest we were told was that tfl want all drivers to sign all routes. So the process to complete that has recently (re)commenced with about 10 Shenfield and Gidea Park Drivers starting to learn the "outer" route past Hayes to Reading. Still no booked work that way though so knowledge again kept through retention.

I can't say for certainty re Maidenhead drivers, but I'm sure they did learn into Liverpool Street High Level, despite not signing past Stratford as a few front ended with me a few months ago. They make use of the few off peak empty route refresh trains which operate during the week. I'm back next week so will see if I can get a definitive answer.

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks everyone. I'll leave Crossrail as it is for now so unless I get any confirmation that they are certain depots not learning the High Level stations.

Also updated today to make some changes I've been notified about at GWR, and to reinstate TFW's Shrewsbury's Bescot knowledge, which is being retained after all.

 

[Mattydo]

TL Cricklewood is now linked.

Link 1 & 2 sign Bedford to Blackfriars. Blackfriars to London Bridge HL Blackfriars to Sutton via Wimbledon and Mitcham Junction.

Link 1 Adds Blackfriars to Orpington via Loughborough Junction.

Links based on current route card as opposed to seniority.

 

[craigybagel]

TL Cricklewood is now linked.

Link 1 & 2 sign Bedford to Blackfriars. Blackfriars to London Bridge HL Blackfriars to Sutton via Wimbledon and Mitcham Junction.

Link 1 Adds Blackfriars to Orpington via Loughborough Junction.

Links based on current route card as opposed to seniority.

Thanks, updated.

 

[westcoaster]

Thanks, updated.

It's via catford loop. Via Loughborough junction is a diversion.

 

[craigybagel]

It's via catford loop. Via Loughborough junction is a diversion.

Apologies, I never was much good with South London

 

[TurboMan]

GWR Reading/Swindon (ZU) from 21/05/23

Link	0	1	2	3	4	5	ZU
Basingstoke	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Bedwyn	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N
Newbury	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Gatwick	Y	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N
Henley	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	Y
Marlow	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	Y
Oxford	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	N
Paddington	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
Windsor	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N
Cardiff	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y
Swindon	Y	Y	N	N	N	N	Y
Swindon Cocklebury	N	N	N	N	N	N	Y
SWI-WSB via Melksham	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N
BDW-WSB	Y	N	N	N	N	N	N
165/166	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
387	N	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y	Y
80X	Y	Y	Y	N	N	N	Y
387 HX	N	N	N	Y	Y	Y	N

Just a minor point, but probably worth noting '387 HX' isn't really a traction type of its own. ETCS competence to drive 387 AIR (HEx units) is an add-on to 387 competence. Some Reading drivers sign 387 + Level NTC, for purposes of ECS moves to/from Reading TCD, but only HEx drivers sign 387 + NTC + Level 2. Reading are not trained to operate in L2 as yet, but training is due to begin at some point soon so that they can continue to work the ECS moves once Level 2 goes live between Stockley Bridge and Ealing.

 

[16CSVT2700]

Just a minor point, but probably worth noting '387 HX' isn't really a traction type of its own. ETCS competence to drive 387 AIR (HEx units) is an add-on to 387 competence. Some Reading drivers sign 387 + Level NTC, for purposes of ECS moves to/from Reading TCD, but only HEx drivers sign 387 + NTC + Level 2. Reading are not trained to operate in L2 as yet, but training is due to begin at some point soon so that they can continue to work the ECS moves once Level 2 goes live between Stockley Bridge and Ealing.

Yes I understand that but it's easier to say which links can/can't drive them at RG without getting into the fine details. My post only deals with RG/ZU, which I am a part of, not the HX drivers at Paddington.
Interestingly, my paper license counterpart lists 387/H NTC only as a seperate traction to 387.

I'd like to know when this training starts.. it's been mooted for ages

 

[John745]

For Greater Anglia, I believe that the Liverpool Street (ex anglia) also uses 720s for the Manningtree to Harwich and the Colchester to Colchester Town.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Blackpool North, can add 319

 

[craigybagel]

For Greater Anglia, I believe that the Liverpool Street (ex anglia) also uses 720s for the Manningtree to Harwich and the Colchester to Colchester Town.

That does make sense, I'll add that

Blackpool North, can add 319

Thanks, I'd been wondering about that one for a while.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thanks, I'd been wondering about that one for a while

Had it confirmed today

 

[iphone76]

Update for MTR Elizabeth Line

Shenfield / Gidea Park / Ilford

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and West Drayton (for contingency incase Heathrow is not accessible)
Liverpool Street High Level station
Paddington High Level station (maintained via retention release)
Ilford Depot
No longer sign past West Drayton to Reading - being taken off licences of drivers to do sign the route to Reading from 4th Sept

Abbey Wood / Plumstead

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading
Liverpool Street and Paddington High Level stations (maintained via retention release)
Not Ilford Depot - conductor driver needed if sent there.

Old Oak

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading
Liverpool Street High Level station (maintained via retention release)
Paddington High Level station
Not Ilford Depot - conductor driver needed if sent there.

Maidenhead

Abbey Wood to Heathrow and Reading
Whitechapel to Stratford (for contingency incase diverted from Abbey Wood - maintained via retention release)
Paddington High Level station
Not Ilford Depot (although can't get there anyway!)

So it has now been confirmed that all drivers will not be signing all routes, although Old Oak, Abbey Wood and Plumstead do sign it all, except Ilford depot.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Toby268]

Avanti drivers, Edinburgh and Glasgow (polmadie) have now lost 221 competency and neither will regain. The one working to Glasgow per day is crewed by Preston drivers.

Glasgow as a result have now lost the Sou west line, to Carlisle via Kilmarnock and Edinburgh has lost the Edinburgh suburban line.

 

[craigybagel]

Update for MTR Elizabeth Line

Shenfield / Gidea Park / Ilford

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and West Drayton (for contingency incase Heathrow is not accessible)
Liverpool Street High Level station
Paddington High Level station (maintained via retention release)
Ilford Depot
No longer sign past West Drayton to Reading - being taken off licences of drivers to do sign the route to Reading from 4th Sept

Abbey Wood / Plumstead

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading
Liverpool Street and Paddington High Level stations (maintained via retention release)
Not Ilford Depot - conductor driver needed if sent there.

Old Oak

Abbey Wood/Shenfield to Heathrow and Reading
Liverpool Street High Level station (maintained via retention release)
Paddington High Level station
Not Ilford Depot - conductor driver needed if sent there.

Maidenhead

Abbey Wood to Heathrow and Reading
Whitechapel to Stratford (for contingency incase diverted from Abbey Wood - maintained via retention release)
Paddington High Level station
Not Ilford Depot (although can't get there anyway!)

So it has now been confirmed that all drivers will not be signing all routes, although Old Oak, Abbey Wood and Plumstead do sign it all, except Ilford depot.

I hope that makes sense.

All makes perfect sense. Sad to see them give up on the idea of all drivers signing all routes though!

Avanti drivers, Edinburgh and Glasgow (polmadie) have now lost 221 competency and neither will regain. The one working to Glasgow per day is crewed by Preston drivers.

Glasgow as a result have now lost the Sou west line, to Carlisle via Kilmarnock and Edinburgh has lost the Edinburgh suburban line.

Thanks, I knew it was coming, but I'm surprised it's this early.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Skipton (Northern) Dec 23 alterations

The current system of two links (A and B) is to change significantly. The new names are to be confirmed, so the numbering below is for convenience only:-

1. As current link A (all routes, divided into PM and AM+PM sublinks)
2. Triangle + Morecambe/Lancaster (divided into AM and AM+PM sublinks)

All links will sign 158, 333 and 331.

(Guards are unaffected.)

 

[scouseyb123]

TPE Preston remove :

Salford Crescent to Manchester Victoria.
Ordsall Lane to Manchester Victoria.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Northern Harrogate crews also sign 155s.

 

[craigybagel]

Skipton (Northern) Dec 23 alterations

The current system of two links (A and B) is to change significantly. The new names are to be confirmed, so the numbering below is for convenience only:-

1. As current link A (all routes, divided into PM and AM+PM sublinks)
2. Triangle + Morecambe/Lancaster (divided into AM and AM+PM sublinks)

All links will sign 158, 333 and 331.

(Guards are unaffected.)

That's an interesting way of doing things. Presumably new starters go in the AM&PM link that doesn't go to Carlisle?

TPE Preston remove :

Salford Crescent to Manchester Victoria.
Ordsall Lane to Manchester Victoria.

Northern Harrogate crews also sign 155s.

Thanks, all duly updated. Also taken the time to remove 68/MKV from TPE Sheffield and Cleethorpes whilst I was in there.

 

[DNCharingX]

Hiya. OP mentions that Grove Park (Southeastern) sign "all metro routes". Just for the sake of clarity: is this inclusive of the following?

1. Grove Park - Bromley North

2. From CHX:
CHX (Charing Cross) - HYS (Hayes)
CHX - GRV (Gravesend) via Sidcup
CHX - DFD (Dartford) via Sidcup
CHX - SEV (Sevenoaks)
CHX - DFD (Dartford) via Bexleyheath

3. From CST:
CST (Cannon Street) - GRV (Gravesend) via Lewisham + Woolwich
Rounders: CST - SGR (Slade Green) - CST (via Bexleyheath / Greenwich)
CST - ORP (Orpington) via Grove Park

4. From VIC:
VIC (Victoria) - DFD (Dartford) via Lewisham

5. Anything from BFR? (Blackfriars) / route learning for engineering work?

I don't know the answer, please don't take this post as confirmation. Thank you to anyone willing to take time out of their day to answer.