December 2023 Timetable Change

[James Finch]

Looks like:

XX:10 - Tottenham Hale & Bishops Stortford
XX:25 - Tottenham Hale & Harlow Town
XX:40 - Tottenham Hale & Bishops Stortford
XX:55 - Tottenham Hale, Harlow Town & Stansted Mountfitchet

Same in reverse with the XX:15 stopping at Mountfitchet.

So we are losing the express to BIS then? That seems unnecessarily regressive, leaving 1tph total to BIS. Might as well start using the bus, even though it is double the cost (even with the fare cap)

 

[cle]

So we are losing the express to BIS then? That seems unnecessarily regressive, leaving 1tph total to BIS. Might as well start using the bus, even though it is double the cost (even with the fare cap)

Stansted Airport is the final stop on all four of these (implicit, like Liverpool St at the start) - BIS will have 2tph Express.

 

[dk1]

So we are losing the express to BIS then? That seems unnecessarily regressive, leaving 1tph total to BIS. Might as well start using the bus, even though it is double the cost (even with the fare cap)

I’m confused by what you mean. BIS will get 4tph to/from Liverpool St. half hourly Stansted Express & twice hourly Cambridge stopper.

 

[James Finch]

Stansted Airport is the final stop on all four of these (implicit, like Liverpool St at the start) - BIS will have 2tph Express.

I’m confused by what you mean. BIS will get 4tph to/from Liverpool St. half hourly Stansted Express & twice hourly Cambridge stopper.

Ah, I may have unnecessarily confused you (apologies) - I'm talking about SST - BIS services, which it appears we (at SST) are losing 1, leaving only the 1tph CBG slow service (which realistically should be 2tph slow at a minimum)

 

[dk1]

Ah, I may have unnecessarily confused you (apologies) - I'm talking about SST - BIS services, which it appears we (at SST) are losing 1, leaving only the 1tph CBG slow service (which realistically should be 2tph slow at a minimum)

My apologies. Yes, looks like 1tph off peak between Stortford & Mountfitchet from December.

 

[Freeston]

Having looked at the paths, it comes from Heaton. I'm assuming this is a route learning train for Newcastle crews for the route via Castleford from York to Leeds.

The rumoured extension of the Manchester-Huddersfield stopper to Wakefield/Castleford will be on 185s and can only be crewed by York or Manchester drivers. Newcastle drivers will not be signing Wakefield.

There will be four trains each way between Manchester Piccadilly and York via Castleford. They are listed in the Network Rail Working Timetable from 12th December.

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately none of these paths will be of any use to people trying to get back from York to the Wakefield area of an evening.

 

[3RDGEN]

There will be four trains each way between Manchester Piccadilly and York via Castleford. They are listed in the Network Rail Working Timetable from 12th December.

RTT is now showing an additional 05:30 Wakefield - Hudds - Manc Picc and 22:59 return service formed from the current Crofton - Hudds ECS moves which is a nice step by TPE.

"https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=TP"

They have had a York - Hudds route learner running for the last few weeks in a morning so they appear to be getting prepared.

 

[800001]

Link below to LNER website detailing timetable improvement for Leeds/Harrogate to Kings Cross on Sundays, from Dec 2023, including longer trains on certain services

Great News For Yorkshire: More LNER Services And Longer Trains

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is meeting an increase in demand from leisure travellers by adding more services and thousands more seats on trains between Yorkshire and London every Sunday.

www.lner.co.uk

 

[hexagon789]

Link below to LNER website detailing timetable improvement for Leeds/Harrogate to Kings Cross on Sundays, from Dec 2023, including longer trains on certain services

Great News For Yorkshire: More LNER Services And Longer Trains

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is meeting an increase in demand from leisure travellers by adding more services and thousands more seats on trains between Yorkshire and London every Sunday.

www.lner.co.uk

Nice to see.

Do we know what the additional workings are?

Are they earlier earlies, later lates or filling gaps somewhere.

 

[JonathanH]

Do we know what the additional workings are?

Are they earlier earlies, later lates or filling gaps somewhere.

Filling gaps 1040 and 1145 southbound from comparison of service on 3 December and 10 December on RTT. Still hourly in the middle of the day from Leeds.

 

[hexagon789]

Filling gaps 1040 and 1145 southbound. Still hourly in the middle of the day from Leeds.

Thanks. Are there equivalent return workings from London?

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks. Are there equivalent return workings from London?

1433 it seems. Still a gap at 1533 before it goes half hourly, as the 1533 runs to Lincoln both now and after the change.

 

[hexagon789]

1433 it seems. Still a gap at 1533 before it goes half hourly.

Thank you

 

[johntea]

There are some further LNER Harrogate changes proposed I believe but not until May / December 2024 now

Something along the lines (no pun intended!) of an earlier Harrogate departure and also an (additional) evening Harrogate departure around 6:30pm

 

[dk1]

There are some further LNER Harrogate changes proposed I believe but not until May / December 2024 now

Something along the lines (no pun intended!) of an earlier Harrogate departure and also an (additional) evening Harrogate departure around 6:30pm

Some improvement from this December…

Direct LNER services will continue to serve Harrogate on Sundays with the changes seeing ten carriage Azuma trains operating on two of the six daily services between London King’s Cross and Harrogate (09:05 London King’s Cross to Harrogate; 17:05 London King’s Cross to Harrogate). These two northbound services will no longer be able to call at Horsforth due to the platform length, however customers can connect using regular Northern Train services, or travel on one of four direct LNER services which will still call at Horsforth on northbound journeys.

 

[BrianB]

The bulk of the Network Rail Dec 2023 NRT tables are now available for preview here https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/
There are only about 30 left to do which are the ones where the data is still in a state of flux, or not available at all, and mainly affects Northern and Transpennine services and anything to do with the IOW. These will be added as soon as possible. Usual caveat applies that they are all subject to revision at any time

 

[Basil Jet]

The bulk of the Network Rail Dec 2023 NRT tables are now available for preview here https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/
There are only about 30 left to do which are the ones where the data is still in a state of flux, or not available at all, and mainly affects Northern and Transpennine services and anything to do with the IOW. These will be added as soon as possible. Usual caveat applies that they are all subject to revision at any time

Thanks.

The summer timetables for the Kirkby area expired last weekend, so no timetables between now and December exist.

 

[Freeston]

The new service calling at Wakefield Kirkgate, Normanton and Castleford that starts on the 12th December is now on Realtime Trans GBTT. The planned stop at Sherburn-in-Elmet (previously shown on WTT) has been cancelled.

 

[M1544]

Noted Grand Centrals weekday 1948 Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange in the new timetable is speeded up by 15 minutes for Halifax and Bradford terminating earlier at 2227 (2h39m journey) rather than 2242.

 

[Adam0984]

Noted Grand Centrals weekday 1948 Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange in the new timetable is speeded up by 15 minutes for Halifax and Bradford terminating earlier at 2227 (2h39m journey) rather than 2242.

Doesn't have 10 mins at Brighouse and consequently doesn't follow the northern from Halifax to Bradford

 

[Bikeman78]

Very disappointed to see that all the timetable padding that was put on the Arun Valley->London route (and possibly others) due to the Gatwick Airport works is still in place. Journeys up to London are still taking 5 minutes longer than before the airport works, even though they're almost complete. Trains just wait at Three Bridges and Gatwick. When will this be removed, do you think?

It used to precede the Gatwick Express but now the Bognor follows it. There used to be the crazy situation that the up Bognor used the up fast at Gatwick and the up Brighton went slow line and used platform 2. Swapping the platforms makes much more sense. It probably makes more sense for the non stop train to go first too. Not sure if it arrives in Victoria any earlier.

 

[infobleep]

It used to precede the Gatwick Express but now the Bognor follows it. There used to be the crazy situation that the up Bognor used the up fast at Gatwick and the up Brighton went slow line and used platform 2. Swapping the platforms makes much more sense. It probably makes more sense for the non stop train to go first too. Not sure if it arrives in Victoria any earlier.

Lately I was surprised at the dwell time at both Haywards Heath and Gatwick Airport on a Gatwick Express. In the former case I was heading to Gatwick Airport and in the latter case heading to Haywards Heath.

Might have arrived unusually early in both those cases.

 

[Bikeman78]

Indeed its great how NR tells us that all the disruption to journeys will be worth it as it will result in faster and more reliable journeys for our passengers once completed. Seems that when they say faster what they really mean is more chance that your journey wont be delayed as you rarely see a project or new rolling stock being exploited. There was once a time when reduced journey time was the key driver to increased revenue but perhaps thats now weakened in favour of journey reliability?

I know someone who worked as an engineer on the Southern back in BR days. It was all about trying to adjust track geometry to ease off speed limits and shave off seconds which in turn could result in slight schedule improvements. I don't think there was much slack in the schedules; the CIGs and VEPs had to be driven quite hard to keep time, but they did so more often than not. Until the latter years when people were less used to slam doors.

Indeed now the Up Arun Valleys cross over on North side of Gatwick they sit there for scheduled 4m but invariably the 1Mxx up in front of it has a late departure causing the 1C's to end up over time.Then it doesn't take much delay to block the 9J on the down slow. Some slack in the schedules is necessary but it would be better spreading that 4m out at E.Croydon where station overtime are frequent with platform despatch unlike Thameslink who even under heavy loadings can outperform Southern dwell times by 10-15s.

They rarely leave Horsham on time. The attachment is painfully slow. I've timed it. The front unit typically has the doors locked up for four minutes before being released again briefly and then closed again before departure. Then there is the crawl up to the signal before Parsonage Road. I have known the 1C to depart Gatwick before the 1M.

 

[numtot12345]

Scotrail now available

Half hourly (not sun) evening service Glasgow to Ayr
Sunday half hourly Glasgow to Gourock part of the day
Cathcart Circle services back

Hi, where can we find the Scotrail Dec 2023 timetable online? My specific questions are:

• Cathcart Circle - there are currently some services operating from morning until early evening. Will these be extended into the evening peak and beyond evening peak?
• From Central, the Neilston service runs hourly from 1935, 2035, 2125 etc. Are they reinstated to half hourly? Likewise for Newton, I think they operate hourly from 1945, 2045 meaning from Central there are no rail services between really XX:00 and XX:30 on those lines.

I saw a comment that Cathcart Circle services were curtailed due to driver (training) shortages. Hopefully that is now resolved? Also hoping for reinstatement of the half hourly Newton and Neilston after 1930.

 

[snookertam]

Hi, where can we find the Scotrail Dec 2023 timetable online? My specific questions are:

• Cathcart Circle - there are currently some services operating from morning until early evening. Will these be extended into the evening peak and beyond evening peak?
• From Central, the Neilston service runs hourly from 1935, 2035, 2125 etc. Are they reinstated to half hourly? Likewise for Newton, I think they operate hourly from 1945, 2045 meaning from Central there are no rail services between really XX:00 and XX:30 on those lines.

I saw a comment that Cathcart Circle services were curtailed due to driver (training) shortages. Hopefully that is now resolved? Also hoping for reinstatement of the half hourly Newton and Neilston after 1930.

On your first point - Yes, they will run all day.

Second point - No, Neilston and Newton services will continue to be hourly after 1900. But the reintroduction of circle services will remove the longer gaps in service.

Driver training still ongoing, the remaining service cuts may be reversed after this is completed (if deemed viable - ScotRail are unable to reintroduce any services until Transport Scotland consider passenger numbers to have increased enough.

 

[HST125Scorton]

For ScotRail LTP Diagrams look here, under Class 2: How we deliver functions and services: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-sc...ts/scotrail-trains-limited-publication-scheme
For TransPennine LTP Diagrams FOI Request by myself here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unit_diagrams_dec_2023_june_2024_2025#incoming-2448808

 

[paulmch]

Very disappointed to see that all the timetable padding that was put on the Arun Valley->London route (and possibly others) due to the Gatwick Airport works is still in place. Journeys up to London are still taking 5 minutes longer than before the airport works, even though they're almost complete. Trains just wait at Three Bridges and Gatwick. When will this be removed, do you think?

I'm not too familiar with that part of the world - is there much churn of passengers at Gatwick? I would have thought that having extra time for large numbers of people with luggage getting on and off would be desirable.

 

[Basil Jet]

Hi, where can we find the Scotrail Dec 2023 timetable online?

https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/

 

[Starmill]

On your first point - Yes, they will run all day.

Second point - No, Neilston and Newton services will continue to be hourly after 1900. But the reintroduction of circle services will remove the longer gaps in service.

Driver training still ongoing, the remaining service cuts may be reversed after this is completed (if deemed viable - ScotRail are unable to reintroduce any services until Transport Scotland consider passenger numbers to have increased enough.

With the latest round of uplifts, plus the Barrhead services and the new end state of Leven work from 2025, I bet they will find they are very close to the limit of what's achievable with the number of drivers recruited across the multitude of locations that supply the central belt work. I guess it may also depend on if Mon - Fri gets more diagrams on the Express or not too.