Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Snow1964]

Dear Santa...all I want for Christmas is a 701 in service.I didn't get this last year so could you please try harder ?

or Christmas 2019, Christmas 2020, or Christmas 2021

 

[TEW]

I'm sure that will soon be denied on this thread.

Yep. As far as I am aware no training has started for mainline drivers or guards. As with drivers, there are some guards managers/trainers trained which will allow a limited initial service to run.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yep. As far as I am aware no training has started for mainline drivers or guards. As with drivers, there are some guards managers/trainers trained which will allow a limited initial service to run.

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[317 forever]

No, it was in jest! Wouldn't put it past SWR to run one diagram that day though.

This would be reminiscent of South Western Trains running a single 707 prior to South Western Railway taking over, so that SWT did achieve it during their franchise.

 

[Goldfish62]

This would be reminiscent of South Western Trains running a single 707 prior to South Western Railway taking over, so that SWT did achieve it during their franchise.

Indeed. From memory it was one Reading and a couple of Weybridges, fulfilling contractual requirements just before SWR took over. The 707s then started entering service properly a few weeks later.

 

[SWT_USER]

Indeed. From memory it was one Reading and a couple of Weybridges, fulfilling contractual requirements just before SWR took over. The 707s then started entering service properly a few weeks later.

It was a single random service from Brentford to Ascot wasn't it?

I guess we could see something similar for the 701's whenever they can finally get one for for service.

 

[kw12]

It was a single random service from Brentford to Ascot wasn't it?

I guess we could see something similar for the 701's whenever they can finally get one for for service.

Why would SWR not simply switch an existing diagram over to 701 operation and then add further diagrams as more staff are trained, in a similar way to what LNWR has started doing this month with the 730 trains?

 

[800001]

It was a single random service from Brentford to Ascot wasn't it?

I guess we could see something similar for the 701's whenever they can finally get one for for service.

I would expect SWR would want maximum publicity to say, look these brand new trains in are use.

 

[43096]

I would expect SWR would want maximum publicity to say, look these brand new trains in are use.

To go with the maximum embarrassment that they're only four years late?

 

[SWT_USER]

I would expect SWR would want maximum publicity to say, look these brand new trains in are use.

I'm not sure finally getting ONE unit out working over four years late is something to shout about.

 

[Snow1964]

I would expect SWR would want maximum publicity to say, look these brand new trains in are use.

Although just before Christmas, or between Christmas and New Year is not going to be time to shout, other things tend to be on people's minds.

Probably better to wait for first full week in January once schools are back w/c 8th Jan to shout about it, even if already had soft start.

 

[TEW]

Why would SWR not simply switch an existing diagram over to 701 operation and then add further diagrams as more staff are trained, in a similar way to what LNWR has started doing this month with the 730 trains?

Because they're not in a position to do that yet, but there does seem to be some determination to have at least one unit in service this year.

 

[Undaunted]

Why would SWR not simply switch an existing diagram over to 701 operation and then add further diagrams as more staff are trained, in a similar way to what LNWR has started doing this month with the 730 trains?

Switching a single rolling stock diagram over to class 701 operation would be simple, but each rolling stock diagram will be resourced by multiple drivers and guards from different depots. So widespread traincrew familiarity with the stock would be a pre-requisite, unless a special set of traincrew diagrams were produced to resource the single class 701 rolling stock diagram. This is actually no small task because the knock-on effects would be significant.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The straightforward response would surely be that safe operation needs to be established.

They wouldn't be running on the main line if they weren't safe. Whether they are fully compliant and reliable is probably the underlying reason.

 

[InOban]

I would hope that the decision as to whether they are fit for service is made by the relevant and appropriate committees and authorities, not by local ASLEF depots.

 

[davews]

It was a single random service from Brentford to Ascot wasn't it?

I guess we could see something similar for the 701's whenever they can finally get one for for service.

It was a single Waterloo to Reading return, running as an extra just behind a normal scheduled service so very few passengers actually used it. I remember seeing it at Martins Heron. I also seem to remember what was probably the last 701 to pass through there way back before Covid with the suggestion it would be in service in the matter of weeks!

 

[JonathanH]

It was a single random service from Brentford to Ascot wasn't it?

It was a single Waterloo to Reading return, running as an extra just behind a normal scheduled service so very few passengers actually used it. I remember seeing it at Martins Heron.

Started at Brentford - 17 August 2017 - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tion-into-service.122552/page-45#post-3093584

 

[Goldfish62]

It was a single Waterloo to Reading return, running as an extra just behind a normal scheduled service so very few passengers actually used it. I remember seeing it at Martins Heron. I also seem to remember what was probably the last 701 to pass through there way back before Covid with the suggestion it would be in service in the matter of weeks!

It did more than that. Certainly went to Reading twice, then a Staines to Weybridge before returning ECS to Wimbledon.

 

[12LDA28C]

I would hope that the decision as to whether they are fit for service is made by the relevant and appropriate committees and authorities, not by local ASLEF depots.

I'd imagine it would be Company Council reps for the whole company that agreed the units are fit for service, not approving them Depot by Depot. It seems that little consideration was given to drivers' requirements when the units were built which has led to the various issues and delays encountered between delivery and entry to traffic.

 

[3973EXL]

701519/517

Realtime Trains | 5Q86 0632 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 28/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q86 0632 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 28/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DMckduck]

My money would be on Staines to Feltham (or v/v). Out of the depot, quick run, reverse and back to the depot with a promise of a full entry to service in the new year (just don't ask them to specify which new year).

Staines to Feltham sounds most realistic, path it just after the Windsor to give time to empty it at feltham and into feltham yard without blocking other services. Nice tick in the box

Who knows ? I wonder when this saga will end and the trains actually carry passengers. This does very much appear to be an operator project and look what has happened elsewhere.OK,services are still running,but using the stock the 701s were meant to replace.It all comes down to the cab size ,and who opens and closes the doors does it not ? Where is the Guiding Mind when one is needed?

Method of operation has been agreed for well over 2 and a half years now. If SWR want to second guess and operate it some other way then they need to get on with it and decide already

 

[swr444]

Method of operation has been agreed for well over 2 and a half years now. If SWR want to second guess and operate it some other way then they need to get on with it and decide already

Method of working is changing and ASLEF / RMT have been in discussions with SWR. It has pretty much been confirmed as driver open guard close. With CD/RA being used at Waterloo and Reading.

Staines to Feltham sounds most realistic, path it just after the Windsor to give time to empty it at feltham and into feltham yard without blocking other services. Nice tick in the box

Most likely it will be Staines-Windsor. You have a spare platform at Windsor in case something goes wrong and it won't be blocking the line into waterloo from Staines

 

[DMckduck]

Method of working is changing and ASLEF / RMT have been in discussions with SWR. It has pretty much been confirmed as driver open guard close. With CD/RA being used at Waterloo and Reading.


Most likely it will be Staines-Windsor. You have a spare platform at Windsor in case something goes wrong and it won't be blocking the line into waterloo from Staines

And then begins the full and standing can of worms. All the 5 car splits will have to run on the Windsor/reading and hounslow diagrams due to short platforms, CCTV monitors also installed further down the platform to plan for this eventuality.

These trains weren't designed to have a guard on board nevermind closing the doors, but I guess trap and drag tests proving unsuitable cameras has forced the companies hand...

 

[Carlisle]

but I guess trap and drag tests proving unsuitable cameras has forced the companies hand...

What & when were these tests ?

 

[swr444]

And then begins the full and standing can of worms. All the 5 car splits will have to run on the Windsor/reading and hounslow diagrams due to short platforms, CCTV monitors also installed further down the platform to plan for this eventuality.

These trains weren't designed to have a guard on board nevermind closing the doors, but I guess trap and drag tests proving unsuitable cameras has forced the companies hand...

there are GOP's in the same positions as on a 707s so it doesn't matter if its a 5 or 10 car unit running on those lines. The only problem will be when they're full and standing and the guard has no where to go.
The 720s had their GOP's retrofitted as the guards are opening and closing the doors on them, which wasn't the original plan.

 

[DMckduck]

What & when were these tests ?

I've been informed whether reliably or not that it failed those tests. I imagine a train that is DOO capable would have to do and pass these tests to be approved.

Why else would SWR want guards to close when they have a deal with ASLEF to open and close?? Also considering the time saving the latter supposedly achieves

 

[Carlisle]

Ok, thanks for the information.

 

[Deepgreen]

I was at Hersham this morning for a steam working and snapped a quick shot of what I assumed was a single 701/0 on test/accumulation, but it was a pair of 701/5s. I haven't checked every post on this thread, but these were the first 701/5s I had seen moving.

 

[amazon1675]

What was the second unit please?

 

[pompeyfan]

Regarding method of operation, unless it’s changed in the last week or so, I’m led to believe it will be Driver open / Driver close however there will be various situations that degraded dispatch (guard dispatch) will be required. It’s the change to degraded dispatch that RMT are seeking clarification about.