Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Bikeman78]

Would you mind elaborating, sorry? It’s hard to draw anything from that statement.

Way back in January or February people stated with apparent confidence that class 150s would not be running to Manchester by December. I was equally confident that they would still be running. Maybe I'll start buying lottery tickets.

 

[Caaardiff]

There's no 150s planned to run that route, except Sundays, but given they are the most versatile units in the fleet, there's still a high chance they will substitute at short notice for some time.

 

[Bikeman78]

There's no 150s planned to run that route, except Sundays, but given they are the most versatile units in the fleet, there's still a high chance they will substitute at short notice for some time.

What is the Manchester diagram that will ultimately become loco hauled booked for now? A 197 at a guess. It was booked a 150 for months. Either way, I expect that on the day substitutes will continue for a while.

 

[craigybagel]

What is the Manchester diagram that will ultimately become loco hauled booked for now? A 197 at a guess. It was booked 10 for months. Either way, I expect that on the day substitutes will continue for a while.

From the December timetable change it's booked 67 - to expand on what @Caaardiff hinted at, all Manchester - South Wales services will be booked alternating 197 or 67 on weekdays, as will all on a Saturday except the 2055 Cardiff - Manchester (booked 158, returns ECS to Crewe afterwards).

Obviously there's a good chance it won't actually be like that from day 1, but that's what is booked in the LTP.

 

[Jez]

Way back in January or February people stated with apparent confidence that class 150s would not be running to Manchester by December. I was equally confident that they would still be running. Maybe I'll start buying lottery tickets.

Yes it was even said by TFW themselves at the start of the year that 150 and 153s running to Manchester would end in Spring 2023 but then obviously the fiasco with the 175s happened so i could understand why they had to use them. But the 175s have gone now and would have gone regardless of them being withdrawn for safety checks back in March so there really should be no excuse for so many 150s and 153s now.

From the December timetable change it's booked 67 - to expand on what @Caaardiff hinted at, all Manchester - South Wales services will be booked alternating 197 or 67 on weekdays, as will all on a Saturday except the 2055 Cardiff - Manchester (booked 158, returns ECS to Crewe afterwards).

Obviously there's a good chance it won't actually be like that from day 1, but that's what is booked in the LTP.

So can we say with confidence there wont be any 150 or 153s from December TT change on the Manchester routes? Especially as training is no longer being carried out on 150s in the North. Surely any subs for Mk4 will be a 197 or at the least a 158.

 

[sd0733]

So can we say with confidence there wont be any 150 or 153s from December TT change on the Manchester routes? Especially as training is no longer being carried out on 150s in the North. Surely any subs for Mk4 will be a 197 or at the least a 158

There won't be any booked in the Long Term diagrams but that's a long way from saying none will turn up.

158s will be required back on the Cambrian after the Barmouth Bridge reopens and I believe the requirement for 150s on the valleys increases in December too so there's less units around for swaps anyway.

 

[Caaardiff]

Yes it was even said by TFW themselves at the start of the year that 150 and 153s running to Manchester would end in Spring 2023 but then obviously the fiasco with the 175s happened so i could understand why they had to use them. But the 175s have gone now and would have gone regardless of them being withdrawn for safety checks back in March so there really should be no excuse for so many 150s and 153s now.


So can we say with confidence there wont be any 150 or 153s from December TT change on the Manchester routes? Especially as training is no longer being carried out on 150s in the North. Surely any subs for Mk4 will be a 197 or at the least a 158.

150s will still be floating around Cardiff central and West Wales, so there is still just as much chance that they could sub for a 197 or mk4 at short notice.

The chances of a 158 sub is much slimmer as SD says, they'll be mainly back to working the Cambrian diagrams so they won't be seen around Cardiff and the South as much. There's historically only 1 158 diagram that works through Cardiff.

 

[IslandLine101]

Feel it important to note that before the last few days, we had around 2-3 weeks of strong availability and most diagrams covered. My usual trains a few times a month are the early diagram off Cardiff, and the 1630 off Manchester, both of which have been fairly reliable this month. I'm sure this week is a hitch rather than anything more.

Any news on HD03? Whilst the amount of standing space more than makes up for the lack of seats on the peak Manchester runs, a 5th coach would be extremely welcome.

 

[33017]

Very poor.

From my daily commutes through Cardiff Central, among close look at the allocations each day, that's become very much the exception rather than the rule these days. It is usually the MK4s substituted, and we must take into account proportions too. There are about thirty 197 diagrams, compared to only four MK4 ones.

There are 27 diagrams for 197s today. One is uncovered, four are 150s and two 158s. This is typical, not the exception.

All Mk4 diagrams are covered by Mk4s.

 

[Caaardiff]

Good to see all the Mk4's out today.
197's are suffering badly with wheel flats. Several are out of service waiting for wheel turning.
Their reliability in other circumstances also seems to be suffering. There were supposedly 2 failures yesterday morning between Carmarthen and Swansea. Not good.

 

[Danfilm007]

Good to see all the Mk4's out today.
197's are suffering badly with wheel flats. Several are out of service waiting for wheel turning.
Their reliability in other circumstances also seems to be suffering. There were supposedly 2 failures yesterday morning between Carmarthen and Swansea. Not good.

Good to see them running well!

Amazed that the Mk5 sets haven't been scoped out...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Good to see all the Mk4's out today.
197's are suffering badly with wheel flats. Several are out of service waiting for wheel turning.
Their reliability in other circumstances also seems to be suffering. There were supposedly 2 failures yesterday morning between Carmarthen and Swansea. Not good.

I saw a driver smash two together at Central yesterday so hard several of the waiting passengers gasped, the dispatcher swore and I watched a group of standing passengers grab the poles for dear life. 045 then had to be examined for damage before the train pulled out 30 mins late.

https://m.facebook.com/ has the video I uploaded

 

[superalbs]

I saw a driver smash two together at Central yesterday so hard several of the waiting passengers gasped, the dispatcher swore and I watched a group of standing passengers grab the poles for dear life. 045 then had to be examined for damage before the train pulled out 30 mins late.

https://m.facebook.com/ has the video I uploaded

The link does not work.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

The link does not work.

It’s here:

Transport for Wales Enthusiasts | How to damage a Class 197: | Facebook

How to damage a Class 197:

www.facebook.com

 

[GWVillager]

That looked to be accelerating. Quite alarming.

 

[craigybagel]

Amazed that the Mk5 sets haven't been scoped out...

They may well have been, but it's not something that's likely to be made public knowledge unless a positive agreement is reached.

But as others have pointed out, a lot of time and money has been sunk into the MKIV & 67 combination, that TfW will no doubt want to see a return on before they look at other options.

 

[Danfilm007]

They may well have been, but it's not something that's likely to be made public knowledge unless a positive agreement is reached.

But as others have pointed out, a lot of time and money has been sunk into the MKIV & 67 combination, that TfW will no doubt want to see a return on before they look at other options.

Totally get it and as based on previous posts, quite a cost-effective one... just a bit surprising as it would give smaller trains more capacity than prev?

 

[superalbs]

It’s here:

Transport for Wales Enthusiasts | How to damage a Class 197: | Facebook

How to damage a Class 197:

www.facebook.com

Thanks. That's quite fast!

 

[craigybagel]

Totally get it and as based on previous posts, quite a cost-effective one... just a bit surprising as it would give smaller trains more capacity than prev?

We'd all like more capacity, but it all comes at a cost.

I'm not saying it isn't happening either - in fact as I've said before it would surprise me if there hasn't been some degree of discussion about it - but it has to be financially justifiable. Even without taking on the MKVs, TfW is already in the process of a massive capacity increase across almost the entire network.

 

[sd0733]

Totally get it and as based on previous posts, quite a cost-effective one... just a bit surprising as it would give smaller trains more capacity than prev?

There's several reasons why ruling out the Mk5s happened. There's the fact that Mk4s are owned and has had a lot spent, all that would be down the drain plus then having to pay leasing costs on 68s and Mk5s
Timing doesn't work especially as the Mk5s aren't off lease until May, what happens in the meantime, and then everyone needs to be retrained converting both Guards and drivers.
There's also who built the Mk5s....that's all I'll say on that one!!

Whilst things haven't been very good this week, mostly they've not been too bad recently. Many of the issues were extremely minor and realistically the same issue on other units would see it out In service. Other new units in the fleet are hardly setting the world alight in the reliability stakes either.

 

[Jez]

I saw a driver smash two together at Central yesterday so hard several of the waiting passengers gasped, the dispatcher swore and I watched a group of standing passengers grab the poles for dear life. 045 then had to be examined for damage before the train pulled out 30 mins late.

https://m.facebook.com/ has the video I uploaded

Looking at RTT it was already significantly late before arriving at Central and then lost even more time. Tonight i got 112 on the Swanline Chester service and that was late followed by a very late running 197 to Manchester just behind it. Too many of them just dont keep to time.

There are 27 diagrams for 197s today. One is uncovered, four are 150s and two 158s. This is typical, not the exception.

All Mk4 diagrams are covered by Mk4s.

Good to see them all out today. Im assuming we arent counting the early morning Swansea to Manchester diagram as that isnt officially a MK4 until the Dec TT change and even then very unlikely to run as as Mk4.

 

[sd0733]

Good to see them all out today. Im assuming we arent counting the early morning Swansea to Manchester diagram as that isnt officially a MK4 until the Dec TT change and even then very unlikely to run as as Mk4.

I believe 18th December is now the (latest!) Date being worked to for the 5 car set to enter service so although it's likely to be Short term planned to something else for a week it hopefully shouldn't be too far after the timetable change for the 5th diagram.

 

[Caaardiff]

I believe 18th December is now the (latest!) Date being worked to for the 5 car set to enter service so although it's likely to be Short term planned to something else for a week it hopefully shouldn't be too far after the timetable change for the 5th diagram.

Once this one is in service won't a other be taken out of service to be made 5 car?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Once this one is in service won't a other be taken out of service to be made 5 car?

I believe its been said that the 5th coaches will be added to sets when they go through exams, to minimise disruption.

 

[sd0733]

I believe its been said that the 5th coaches will be added to sets when they go through exams, to minimise disruption.

Yep that's the plan! It'll also mean the exam requirements are the same across each set.

Back to 3 diagrams for at least the first half of the week with the Crewe-Crewe (1V31/1W55/1V42/1W23) diagram not Mk4s until at least Wednesday with a variety of tyre turning and loco exams.

Availability of 15x and 197s is pretty terrible too whether anything at all is available to sub isn't guaranteed. Already cancellations tomorrow with lack of stock.

The Cardiff start diagram also looks to be running with the Swansea start again this week rather than the 04:35 from Cardiff

*Edit*. Tuesday AM will only see one set running, the Holyhead start. The other 2 sets should come out on 1W96 from Cardiff to Holyhead and 1W57 from Crewe to Manchester to rotate the sets for exam requirements.

 

[fodphil]

The 4 MkIVs at Barton Hill are to be stabled there till April 2024, and to have some remedial work done on them.

They are labelled up as HD08

 

[sd0733]

HD01 DVT getting a new wrap on the DVT this week. Unsure what it Will be or whether it's just a replacement of what's on there at the moment.

Theres a lot of loco/coach exams Monday and Tuesday so the diagram starting 04:54 from Crewe wont run until Wednesday. On Tuesday the 0435 Cardiff to Manchester is a unit from Cardiff but planned a set swap at Crewe.
From Wednesday should then be all 4 diagrams.
For the first time in several weeks all 7 sets will have a loco on them after tomorrow as well with 67013 planned to go onto HD03 for the finishing off of its exam so it can enter service.

The 4 MkIVs at Barton Hill are to be stabled there till April 2024, and to have some remedial work done on them.

They are labelled up as HD08

As I understand it what was HD08 will now mostly become the spare HD99. Some of the worst of the spare coaches at present will then become donor coaches and eventually be stripped and scrapped.

Things change so much though that those plans may be out of date already but that was the last i heard!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

HD01 DVT getting a new wrap on the DVT this week. Unsure what it Will be or whether it's just a replacement of what's on there at the moment.

Exciting - is that currently a TfW liveried one or a GC black one? I feel as though they really ought to get rid of the latter, as the former with a set of matching coaches would look smart and uniform with the rest of the fleet (albeit the yellow front, but that cannot be helped)

 

[craigybagel]

For the first time in several weeks all 7 sets will have a loco on them after tomorrow as well with 67013 planned to go onto HD03 for the finishing off of its exam so it can enter service.

Makes sense, the drivers have had briefing notes given out this week about the change to 5 car sets, so that's usually a sign things are about to happen.

Exciting - is that currently a TfW liveried one or a GC black one? I feel as though they really ought to get rid of the latter, as the former with a set of matching coaches would look smart and uniform with the rest of the fleet (albeit the yellow front, but that cannot be helped)

HD01 is in LNER Red & White.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks. I wonder why it’s the DVT getting the wrap then when it’s just been reliveried? The MK4s badly need painting. Unless of course, they’re just changing the charity advert for another.