Aslef announce strike dates

[Silenos]

I'd be careful what you wish for. I know our (Conservative) MP is inundated with people demanding the government stops bailing out the railway and cuts all funding. They see the cancelling of HS2 an excellent thing and want the government to "stop wasting money" on railways. The strikes, according to these people, prove the railways aren't needed as the country carries on perfectly well on strike days. Indeed most people couldn't tell you what days trains were on strike.
Interestingly the Labour candidate can't stand further back from commiting. Anyone expecting Labour to spend money on resolving the dispute is likely to be very disappointed. Obviously it's different in different parts of the country, but round here, any party that promises more money to the railways won't be elected. Those that promise to cut spending guarantee themselves victory.

If your MP has indeed been inundated by messages all of which state that railway funding be cut, that the cancelling of HS2 was an excellent thing, and that railways aren’t needed, then it is likely that they are boilerplate messages copied from a template designed by some right-wing pressure group. Real complainants, in my experience, never make identical points.

Of course, if it didn’t affect the rest of us it would be delightful to give them what they’re asking for then watch them all scream blue murder as their road journeys become a nightmare.

 

[P Binnersley]

The Guardian is suggesting that minimum service levels will NOT be implemented.

The strikes are likely to stop all trains at affected operators, although there is the possibility that companies could demand that 40% of their timetable runs under the government’s new minimum service levels law.

However, although the companies have not have confirmed their intention either way, it is understood that none are likely to try to use the new powers this time. The legislation is untested and rail firms as well as unions have expressed concern about the practicalities and consequences.

West Midlands Railway is saying no service on ASLEF strike days (but this may be a cut & paste).Will you be running trains on strike days?This depends on which union is taking industrial action, and the nature of such action. The majority of our Traincrew are represented by 2 unions – the RMT (Senior Conductors) and ASLEF (Drivers).

In the event of RMT strike action we will provide a limited service using management volunteers and staff who are not partaking in strike action. We will prioritise the delivery of a very limited service on our mainline routes however, our advice to customers is to only travel if your journey is essential and you have no other means of transport available.
We are unable to provide a train service in the event of ASLEF strike action

Its not going to look good for the Government if they have passed an act that nobody uses.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'd be careful what you wish for. I know our (Conservative) MP is inundated with people demanding the government stops bailing out the railway and cuts all funding. They see the cancelling of HS2 an excellent thing and want the government to "stop wasting money" on railways.

Removing the funding from the railway would end up with ticket prices going through the roof, services culled to reduce costs, and most likely a massive lack of investment. I'm not sure that would be good for the passenger. So yes, careful what gets wished for.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Guardian is suggesting that minimum service levels will NOT be implemented.



West Midlands Railway is saying no service on ASLEF strike days (but this may be a cut & paste).Will you be running trains on strike days?This depends on which union is taking industrial action, and the nature of such action. The majority of our Traincrew are represented by 2 unions – the RMT (Senior Conductors) and ASLEF (Drivers).

Its not going to look good for the Government if they have passed an act that nobody uses.

Probably one of the only good things Rishi has done recently, introducing that law! However, I see there is a thread discussing the UK Government so maybe this post belongs there instead.

 

[Bantamzen]

I really don’t understand this forum sometimes.

The only people on here I would expect are current rail employees, rail enthusiasts or those looking to work on the rail.

Why is there so much negativity about the strikes?

Drivers have not had a pay rise in a long time and what was offered was a step backwards if you take the t&c’s in to consideration.

Let’s just show some support to those working on the rail and hopefully it can be running smoothly in the near future.

Perhaps there are also people who, I don't know, need to use the trains and are just sick to the back teeth of a third year of rail disruptions? I know that drivers haven't had a rise in a while, but a whole lot more people lost lots of income and even their jobs in the same period. So they can reserve the right not to support the strikes, especially when it negatively impacts their lives.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Perhaps there are also people who, I don't know, need to use the trains and are just sick to the back teeth of a third year of rail disruptions? I know that drivers haven't had a rise in a while, but a whole lot more people lost lots of income and even their jobs in the same period. So they can reserve the right not to support the strikes, especially when it negatively impacts their lives.

Yes I mean, supporting the strikes is fair enough, but acting like it's surprising when other people don't is mind-numbing!

 

[AverageJoe]

Well I don’t know a single driver who is enjoying this.

We all want it resolved as soon as possible and directing frustration at the drivers won’t speed anything up, but maybe directing it at the government will.

Yes I mean, supporting the strikes is fair enough, but acting like it's surprising when other people don't is mind-numbing!

And coming on to a forum full of the drivers and other staff involved and complaining about it is pointless and improves nothing.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And coming on to a forum full of the drivers and other staff involved and complaining about it is pointless and improves nothing.

One of the key purposes of a forum is for contributors to be able to vent their frustrations. Understandably, when the drivers' union decide to implement days with no rail service in the UK, people are frustrated. It is one thing to cut off the UK's rail service, but then to say they cannot be rightfully upset about it is another thing.

The reality is, regular commuters, non road-drivers and those who rely on the service are not going to react to news of a strike with an eagerness to support it, and expecting them to seems somewhat unrealistic. Unless someone is blatantly provocative, disrespectful or purposefully distasteful, which of course isn't right, nobody should be denied their right to say that they are unhappy or frustrated about mass cancellations across the country.

 

[Russel]

What changed between the Govt and the RMT to break the deadlock* there and why aren't Aslef having the same success?

*I'm aware the change was the removal of changes to T&Cs, I'm asking what the catalyst for the change was... just to be clear, I know what this forum can be like.

 

[AverageJoe]

Well personally I disagree with the ‘purpose’ of this forum being to vent frustration.

I would say the purpose of this forum is to share positive and informative information about all things rail.

But yes if you choose to use it as a format to vent than I suppose you can.

However with this being an ongoing subject and the reasons behind the strikes and the feelings of those employees involved being shared on here with the public I really don’t understand these negative let’s have a moan again themes.

But hey it it was it is. Have a good day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would say the purpose of this forum is to share positive and informative information about all things rail.

I think if forums and discussion topics were limited to only positive information, we would be living a bit of a false reality.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

GTR aren't 50% short of train crew and by now they should have better optimised their offering vs establishment levels but they haven't as probably don't have any slack in the planning team so revert to the slash and burn service. About time DafT called them out.

They do have slack in their planning team though. And they don't slash services by 50%.

 

[MP33]

I am due to travel on the morning and early afternoon of the 29th. Is it known how much an effect the first day of the overtime ban will have?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am due to travel on the morning and early afternoon of the 29th. Is it known how much an effect the first day of the overtime ban will have?

It typically varies by operator.

 

[Ashfordian6]

What changed between the Govt and the RMT to break the deadlock* there and why aren't Aslef having the same success?

*I'm aware the change was the removal of changes to T&Cs, I'm asking what the catalyst for the change was... just to be clear, I know what this forum can be like.

Well the Government sat down and talked with the RMT, something that they are stupidly refusing to do with ASLEF. It's like the Government are deliberately engineering this situation and do not want to resolve it with that approach!

 

[whoosh]

Probably one of the only good things Rishi has done recently, introducing that law! However, I see there is a thread discussing the UK Government so maybe this post belongs there instead.

But you do understand that the strikes were provoked just to make that law, don't you?

I mean, why else not grant TOCs permission to have pay talks with ASLEF for the entirety of 2022?
Why make a derogatory offer to ASLEF in January 2023 via the Rail Delivery Group, but whilst still not having any talks with them? (And a whole month after making an almost identical offer to the RMT - why wait a month? Oh yeah, so ASLEF can make an inconvenient strike!)
Why make an even worse offer after having talks with ASLEF?
Why settle with the RMT by moving changes to Terms & Conditions to individual TOC level for year two - but yet not offer the same to settle with ASLEF?

It's all been to make that wonderful new law - which as I said earlier, wouldn't have been necessary if negotiations had been held in good will between ASLEF and the actual employers.

 

[kw12]

Why settle with the RMT by moving changes to Terms & Conditions to individual TOC level for year two - but yet offer the same to settle with ASLEF?

Probably because RMT gave assurances to work with the separate TOCs to reach local agreements about changes to Ts & Cs whereas ASLEF has so far not given any similar assurances.

 

[MikeWM]

They do have slack in their planning team though. And they don't slash services by 50%.

The last few periods of overtime ban have seen one train an hour timetabled between Ely and Cambridge/London, rather than two. And three trains an hour between Cambridge and London, rather than 6. That's 50%. And in the end even less than that runs in practice. I'm sure some lines get better than 50% and I know some (Redhill) get worse, but on average 50% feels about right.

As for the weekend service, that is substantially worse as timetabled, considerably below 50% of what should be running, and then they further cancel a good proportion of what is left on the day. As I've documented on various threads on here over the past six months or so.

 

[yorksrob]

No. The office staff who have to reply to them. Obviously you don't have to believe it, but it doesn't stop it being true.

Everywhere has its share of militant motorist/taxpayers alliance types. That doesn't mean to say that such an approach would be a vote winner more widely

 

[rdevz]

I really don’t understand this forum sometimes.

The only people on here I would expect are current rail employees, rail enthusiasts or those looking to work on the rail.

I'm going to de-lurk to point out that you also have a community of rail users here too. We're the collateral damage that gets their commutes and lives emmiserated by the dispute between Government and the unions. Pardon me for being less than enthusiastic about the prospect of a week of commuting into Zone 1 from Zone 6 when Southern are facing an overtime ban.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm going to de-lurk to point out that you also have a community of rail users here too. We're the collateral damage that gets their commutes and lives emmiserated by the dispute between Government and the unions. Pardon me for being less than enthusiastic about the prospect of a week of commuting into Zone 1 from Zone 6 when Southern are facing an overtime ban.

Well said. It's like some drivers really expect commuters to think "Amazing, they're standing up for what they believe in! That's well worth losing my transport to work for two weeks!" It's not a realistic expectation.

The strikes are happening, and there's nothing we can do, but it's a kick in the teeth when people act like you shouldn't be allowed to feel unhappy about them on top.

 

[JamesT]

Everywhere has its share of militant motorist/taxpayers alliance types. That doesn't mean to say that such an approach would be a vote winner more widely

Though if the only representations the politicians see are from those people, why wouldn't they think it's a vote winner? The squeaky wheel gets the grease...

 

[yorksrob]

Though if the only representations the politicians see are from those people, why wouldn't they think it's a vote winner? The squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Indeed. Perhaps we all need to be writing to them to get their finger out and improve the service !

 

[newtownmgr]

Probably because RMT gave assurances to work with the separate TOCs to reach local agreements about changes to Ts & Cs whereas ASLEF has so far not given any similar assurances.

Aslef have stated in the past that negotiations need to be done at local level & a one size fits all deal won’t work, so I’m sorry but your comment is incorrect. It’s the RDG, no doubt under the directive of Harper & co that deliberately won’t budge as they seemingly want to try & break aslef

 

[yorkie]

I really don’t understand this forum sometimes.

The only people on here I would expect are current rail employees, rail enthusiasts or those looking to work on the rail.

Why is there so much negativity about the strikes?

Drivers have not had a pay rise in a long time and what was offered was a step backwards if you take the t&c’s in to consideration.

Let’s just show some support to those working on the rail and hopefully it can be running smoothly in the near future.

If there is/are a post(s) you disagree with, in this thread, please do quote them, say what part you disagree with and what your alternative view is.

Removing the funding from the railway would end up with ticket prices going through the roof, services culled to reduce costs, and most likely a massive lack of investment. I'm not sure that would be good for the passenger. So yes, careful what gets wished for.

It would certainly result in a reduced service and job losses. Ticket prices probably can't rise much more in many cases as they are already priced to deter people, but at the end of the day we just don't really know what the outcome could be. It's all guesswork. But the idea that funding (subsidy) would be "removed" is absurd; "reduced" maybe.

Everywhere has its share of militant motorist/taxpayers alliance types. That doesn't mean to say that such an approach would be a vote winner more widely

It would very much depend on the constituency.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They do have slack in their planning team though.
And they don't slash services by 50%.

Its only 33% at Redhill and then GTR manage to conspire to have both London bound trains 9mins apart despite endless requests to at least get closer to a half hourly service. I'll give them credit that they at least activated most of the Vic-Gatwick Q paths last time we had industrial action.

 

[SeanG]

I'm due to travel from the northeast to King Cross early morning (0612) on 5th February - an LNER overtime ban day. Does anyone know what the level of service for LNER has been previously on an overtime ban day?

 

[kw12]

Aslef have stated in the past that negotiations need to be done at local level & a one size fits all deal won’t work, so I’m sorry but your comment is incorrect. It’s the RDG, no doubt under the directive of Harper & co that deliberately won’t budge as they seemingly want to try & break aslef

The RMT agreement includes assurances from the union that it will talk in good faith to employers about T&C changes, ie that it was not simply agreeing a pay increase without any intention of talking in good faith about T&C changes. RDG would not have made the RMT agreement without those assurances.

ASLEF may wish to negotiate at a local level but it has so far not given the RDG any assurances similar to those provided by the RMT. It would need to provide those assurances if it wishes the RDG to offer the union an agreement similar to that agreed by RMT.

 

[yorkie]

I'm due to travel from the northeast to King Cross early morning (0612) on 5th February - an LNER overtime ban day. Does anyone know what the level of service for LNER has been previously on an overtime ban day?

I'm not sure about that specific train, but LNER tend to do pretty well compared to some other TOCs.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I'm due to travel from the northeast to King Cross early morning (0612) on 5th February - an LNER overtime ban day. Does anyone know what the level of service for LNER has been previously on an overtime ban day?

Looks like in the December strikes the overtime ban didn't affect what I guess might be your train (06:12 from Durham). It seems to have ran every day except that of the full strike.

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