Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[overthewater]

Anyone who knows anything about a bus companies ability to increase frequencies, and introduce new services, will know that this takes vehicles to be available, as well as the drivers to operate them. Lothian do not have the spare buses to achieve this, as the delivery of the new electric buses has been delayed. The network in West Lothian will increase when the vehicles become available. As for chasing passengers away, I'd love to know where they will go to achieve their transport needs. The vast majority of bus passengers in West Lothian use buses because they have no alternative means of transport, so they will continue to depend on, and in fact travel by bus.

They could have hired in some buses, plenty of second hand stock. Lothian has done this before

The current network, although far from perfect, is a vast improvement on what was offered by previous companies. Expansion takes time

That is now where near the truth.

 

[VioletEclipse]

After so many years of Lothian having lots of buses parked in reserve for long periods of time, it seems they'll now be using just about every servicable bus they own between the service changes and the BZLs arriving.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

They could have hired in some buses, plenty of second hand stock. Lothian has done this before



That is now where near the truth.

So when Lothian doesn't increase their network because of valid reasons that you are seemingly disregarding at the moment, you complain but when McGill's decreased, you understood and said things praising them in a separate forum? How does that correlate? I don't want to start any arguments but I'm curious as to why.

It's positive news that Lothian are even increasing their network with the limited amount of buses available, West Lothian will take time.

 

[overthewater]

So when Lothian doesn't increase their network because of valid reasons that you are seemingly disregarding at the moment, you complain but when McGill's decreased you understood and said things praising them in a separate forum? How does that correlate? I don't want to start any arguments but I'm curious as to why.

It's positive news that Lothian are even increasing their network with the limited amount of buses available, West Lothian will take time.

The company decided where it wanted to make its modest improvements and it wasn't West Lothian. If they can't get new drivers in over the 4 months period, Whats the chance it going to get them over the next 3 months? Or is City drivers the priority?

What separate Forum? you mean a different thread? I don't know exactly what your on about, however McGill still operated a better network even with its decreases than what Lothian is currently offering.

 

[goldisgood]

I'd have to agree this does seem like a pretty disappointing set of changes, particuarly with no increases for Lothian Country but also for many routes seeing chronic overcrowding. Whilst the frequency increase on route 1 is definitely warranted, alongside extra capacity on Queensferry Road, I do question (as have others) whether the 23, 27 and 35 are the right choices for frequency increases otherwise: outside of peak (like all services) these routes seem to cope fine but maybe others can give a better idea?

From a personal point it seems there is no end in sight for the overcrowded buses on routes 7/14/49, with the 7 in particular definitely needing a frequency boost urgently, as buses are often full and standing throughout the day even without any disruption. Routes 3 and 26 do really seem to need a boost as well.

Nice to see a new N35, although I'm slightly unsure why it would run via Holyrood instead of Leith Street considering where the nightlife is!

 

[Lx008]

I wasn't expecting big improvements but I was expecting some improvements to try aka a stepping stone to bring the network back to the life. Sad truth is the longer this awful network stays in place the harder it will get for Lothian to retain the passengers and attract new ones.




90 days between Changes means the first possible date for West Lothian network to change is 24th June which is right on the nose. Those bus passes have done nothing to help convince teenagers to switch to public transport.

You are very very wrong
Those bud passes have made a massive difference, i have not seen a single teenager get in the bus recently without using one, and from the experience with my own kids and their friends it has made a massive difference, they will now frequently walk to the bus with their friends and take it into town rather than asking for a lift to princess street or St. John’s.

Furthermore to everyone here complaining.
What exactly do you want? Lothian have every serviceable bus on operation, even using some of their ancient tour buses.
Bar running open top buses on city services I don’t know what else they could do.
There is not a single bus that is currently not either used in training drivers, operations or being prepped for service return

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The company decided where it wanted to make its modest improvements and it wasn't West Lothian. If they can't get new drivers in over the 4 months period, Whats the chance it going to get them over the next 3 months? Or is City drivers the priority?

What separate Forum? you mean a different thread? I don't know exactly what your on about, however McGill still operated a better network even with its decreases than what Lothian is currently offering.

Yes, apologies I mean thread. At least the buses are actually running and when vehicles are made available I am sure Lothian will increase those services.

 

[Ding Ding]

They could have hired in some buses, plenty of second hand stock. Lothian has done this before



That is now where near the tru

They could have hired in some buses, plenty of second hand stock. Lothian has done this before



That is now where near the truth.

As I said in my first sentence, you really have to have a grasp on how things work. Lothian can't just hire or buy second hand buses on a whim. The vehicles would need to be, first of all, readily available, secondly, fleet compliant, Mot'd etc. I could go on but won't.
Lothian Country's network is a vast improvement, in as much as they have never had Short Notice Cancellations. Previous companies had massive amounts of cancellations, buses that were not road worthy, again I could go on. I have said it is not perfect, but at least passengers know that a bus will turn up.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

whether the 23, 27 and 35 are the right choices for frequency increases otherwise

This would make you think that the 23 and 27 will be BZL operated soon and this is a trade for less capacity on the buses.

If they can't get new drivers in over the 4 months period, Whats the chance it going to get them over the next 3 months?

Lothian Country have hired a lot of drivers and have done well, you have to realise that there's simply not enough vehicles to use and as @Ding Ding says it's not easy to just buy new vehicles and use them quickly and you have to make sure they are good, etc.

 

[goldisgood]

This would make you think that the 23 and 27 will be BZL operated soon and this is a trade for less capacity on the buses.

They must be - not sure how justifiable these increases are in the grand scheme of things otherwise! Hope this might give some justification to shuffle the fleet around a bit, maybe allow some ex-London B9TLs to run on these and put some longer buses back on the 49 to at least offer a little bit of relief and moremuch needed standing space.

Hopefully introduction of the BZLs will allow for further increases on Lothian Country (thinking the 72 in particular from what most people say) and City (the 7 I beg!!). I'm sure there were rumours of an extra 20 or so buses remaining within the company a couple weeks back.

It does raise the point of whether these shorter buses are suitable for Lothian though - most of the routes using shorter buses at the moment can only just about cope, and where the other buses will go does raise a question over the capacity lost. At a guess I could see routes 8, 9, 10, 23 and 27 running with the electrics and managing alright, I'm not sure if anyone in the know has a better idea?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

They must be - not sure how justifiable these increases are in the grand scheme of things otherwise! Hope this might give some justification to shuffle the fleet around a bit, maybe allow some ex-London B9TLs to run on these and put some longer buses back on the 49 to at least offer a little bit of relief and moremuch needed standing space.

Transfer some Ex-Londons to Central from Marine with more buses with low double-deck capacity coming? Moving them for a few months at best would be rather stupid.

 

[JKP]

They could have hired in some buses, plenty of second hand stock. Lothian has done this before



That is now where near the truth.

Surely the issue here is whether the routes taken on cover their operating costs and whether additional buses will attract a sufficient number of passengers to cover the increase in cost. Lothian, I suspect, incurs a much higher operating cost per mile or km than for example, McGills and as a Council owned operator will be more cautious about taking risks.

 

[goldisgood]

Transfer some Ex-Londons to Central from Marine with more buses with low double-deck capacity coming? Moving them for a few months at best would be rather stupid.

If the frequency increases for the capacity trade-off are happening already then yes, that's exactly what I'd suggest! Although I do appreciate that operationally it might be hard to keep them on the routes for the new electrics, the small boost in capacity is urgently needed on other services with the level of overcrowding at the moment.

 

[NorthEastern]

Crap and disappointing, if this is the best we can expect for the West Lothian network then Lothian are worse than McGills and they're worse than the bad days of First Edinburgh. I think by the time any improvements appear, which now looks like August/September time, they will have chased every bus passenger away. I hope they're proud.

If the changes are not Earth shattering then doesn’t it imply that either a) the current situation is more or less about right, and/or, b) that’s all Lothian can currently deliver given the availability of drivers and buses?

 

[overthewater]

Surely the issue here is whether the routes taken on cover their operating costs and whether additional buses will attract a sufficient number of passengers to cover the increase in cost. Lothian, I suspect, incurs a much higher operating cost per mile or km than for example, McGills and as a Council owned operator will be more cautious about taking risks.

Think this is best reply on the thread. Makes you wonder why they wanted West Lothian in the first place.

Lothian Country have hired a lot of drivers and have done well,

But why? They did expect to have spare buses right now? It would great to know why Lothian Country has done very will getting in a lot of new drivers if there no enhancements until late June?, what are these new drivers going to do for the next 4 months ? unless there a high turnover of staff?

 

[stevenedin]

Think this is best reply on the thread. Makes you wonder why they wanted West Lothian in the first place.



But why? They did expect to have spare buses right now? It would great to know why Lothian Country has done very will getting in a lot of new drivers if there no enhancements until late June?, what are these new drivers going to do for the next 4 months ? unless there a high turnover of staff?

In my opinion, I reckon that they will increase them once the new BZLs arrive. I think that this is the reason why some buses are being painted white rather than in the normal fleet colours, so that they can transfer over to Lothian Country.

 

[overthewater]

If and when Improvements are made I will happily praise them on the starting blocks of rebuilding the network.

 

[CN04NRJ]

If and when Improvements are made I will happily praise them on the starting blocks of rebuilding the network.

I mean, LCB didn't have to step in at all...

 

[overthewater]

I mean, LCB didn't have to step in at all...

LCB didn't have to start a bus war, but they did.

as I said If and when Improvements are made I will happily praise them on the starting blocks of rebuilding the network.

 

[Acfb]

Some excellent changes here, particularly the increase in frequency for the 23, 27, 35 and 36 and also the resumption of the 106 to Fort Kinnaird, providing a fast connection to Musselburgh*.

* I do wonder what Prentice thinks of this though? Which is why I'm a little surprised but the times of the 106 and 108 do appear to be ideally spaced at both ends and the 108 doesn't run on a Sunday.

Also interesting they've gone for an N35 instead of resuming the N34.

 

[Theproinsider]

If and when Improvements are made I will happily praise them on the starting blocks of rebuilding the network.

McGill's walked away. LC stepped up with the vehicles and staff available.

You're missing the increased Sunday frequency on the X27/8, increased evening service on the 43, better start and finish times at the RIE in the evening to accommodate shift patterns and reliability improvements for the local services.

All in all, a decent uplift and stabilisation of the network.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It would great to know why Lothian Country has done very will getting in a lot of new drivers if there no enhancements until late June?

They were/are hiring for this network, which ensures there are fewer cancellations which is key in West Lothian. You are completely missing the point in the West Lothian network at the moment. The priority is to create a sustainable and reliable service for the people of West Lothian so they don't have to worry about cancellations. Lothian would increase if they could but unfortunately, the BZLs have been delayed. Also, Lothian didn't have to step into West Lothian. They've done a great job with the resources they have, and I am sure they will do better in the future. It's only been 4 months since the routes were introduced, not a lot of time whatsoever. The new timetables will hopefully increase reliability further.

Hearing from people living in West Lothian I think they would beg to differ. They appreciate the service that Lothian is giving them, and although they are aware of the downsides, they are very happy compared to McGill's and they appreciate Lothian coming in.

 

[GusB]

I think it's high time that a line was drawn under the whole West Lothian "bus war" saga. Constantly digging it up will achieve absolutely nothing, other than putting people's backs up.

Move on, please!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think it's high time that a line was drawn under the whole West Lothian "bus war" saga. Constantly digging it up will achieve absolutely nothing, other than putting people's backs up.

Move on, please!

Here here

The residence of Weston have ultimately got what they want and whilst it's not as extensive as it was a couple of years ago when both them and first or McGill's were operating there are a lot of the core areas covered and West loan Council realizing the limitations have stepped up in some other places and so drawing a line does indeed seem sensible




Incidentally do we have any official source that the new electrics have been delayed? I know it's been referred to several times on here but can't seem to remember there being any actual solid proof

 

[43106]

It was announced by Lothian tonight (just after 11.00 p.m.) that routes 5 & 16 were being diverted away from Oxgangs Avenue (they quoted 'Oxgangs Road North') and Greenbank Crescent, and were being sent via Oxgangs Road and Comiston Road until further notice. 50-odd minutes later, they then announced that the 4, 27 and 400 would be switched away from Oxgangs Road North & Colinton Mains Drive and being sent via Redford Road and Colinton Road, again, until further notice. Anyone know why?

 

[Bus9120UK]

It was announced by Lothian tonight (just after 11.00 p.m.) that routes 5 & 16 were being diverted away from Oxgangs Avenue (they quoted 'Oxgangs Road North') and Greenbank Crescent, and were being sent via Oxgangs Road and Comiston Road until further notice. 50-odd minutes later, they then announced that the 4, 27 and 400 would be switched away from Oxgangs Road North & Colinton Mains Drive and being sent via Redford Road and Colinton Road, again, until further notice. Anyone know why?

I'm unsure as to what is going on but was told that 691 was surrounded by police vehicles earlier on (approx. 21:45) - unsure if this is correlated.

 

[GusB]

It was announced by Lothian tonight (just after 11.00 p.m.) that routes 5 & 16 were being diverted away from Oxgangs Avenue (they quoted 'Oxgangs Road North') and Greenbank Crescent, and were being sent via Oxgangs Road and Comiston Road until further notice. 50-odd minutes later, they then announced that the 4, 27 and 400 would be switched away from Oxgangs Road North & Colinton Mains Drive and being sent via Redford Road and Colinton Road, again, until further notice. Anyone know why?

A road closure, apparently, although no reason is given for this.

Service Updates - Lothian Buses

Service Alerts – Last-minute road closures due to emergency works or following an incident can affect bus routes and service reliability. Our Service Alerts will keep you informed about any sudden changes to services as they occur. Planned Diversions – As soon as our teams are informed about...

www.lothianbuses.com

Oxgangs Road North
Last updated: 16/02/2024 23:55Share
Due to a road closure buses are unable to serve Oxgangs Road North and are instead diverted via B701, Redford Road and Colinton Road in both directions until further notice.

affects services: 4 27 400

Oxgangs Avenue
Last updated: 16/02/2024 23:06Share
Due to a road closure buses are unable to serve Oxgangs Road North and Greenbank Crescent and are instead diverted via Oxgangs Road and Comiston Road in both directions until further notice.

affects services: 5 16 N16

 

[roadierway77]

It was announced by Lothian tonight (just after 11.00 p.m.) that routes 5 & 16 were being diverted away from Oxgangs Avenue (they quoted 'Oxgangs Road North') and Greenbank Crescent, and were being sent via Oxgangs Road and Comiston Road until further notice. 50-odd minutes later, they then announced that the 4, 27 and 400 would be switched away from Oxgangs Road North & Colinton Mains Drive and being sent via Redford Road and Colinton Road, again, until further notice. Anyone know why?

Online page only says a road closure. When no reason is given I always assume it's some sort of incident involving the emergency services.

 

[paul0762]

I’ve heard that someone was hit by a bus, possible 691

 

[route101]

How many buses do Lothian have in reserve?