What makes you describe them as "awfully inconvenient"?I cant believe how awfully inconvenient the Liverpool to Scotland services are for a city with identical population to Manchester.
Is it down to capacity or something else...
What do you think?
Wigan is part of the Manchester urban area though, but is on the route of the Liverpool trains.The Manchester urban area is more populous than Liverpool's though, and includes Salford, which is 106,074 people (2021 Census Data).
In early VXC days it used to have a Portsmouth service.I am sure it also used to have a few Bristol services a day back in 80s?
Perhaps the fact that there are only two northbound services per day, and one southbound (the other southbound train starts at Lancaster).What makes you describe them as "awfully inconvenient"?
Wigan is part of the Manchester urban area though, but is on the route of the Liverpool trains.
None of which is a reason for the Liverpool service to be so poor.Bolton is on the route of the Manchester trains. The Manchester trains also effectively serve Oldham and Rochdale and many other populous towns indirectly.
Wigan has an excellent service to Scotland, being on the direct WCML.Wigan is part of the Manchester urban area though, but is on the route of the Liverpool trains.
None of which is a reason for the Liverpool service to be so poor.
Wigan is also on the WCML.Wigan is part of the Manchester urban area though, but is on the route of the Liverpool trains.
In early VXC days it used to have a Portsmouth service.
Perhaps the fact that there are only two northbound services per day, and one southbound (the other southbound train starts at Lancaster).
More likely it's because Liverpool is a terminus station in reality with limited onward connections, whereas Manchester is much more of a hub with onward (or incoming ) passengers from the east of the Pennines, Nottingham etc.None of which is a reason for the Liverpool service to be so poor.
Wigan is also on the WCML.
More likely it's because Liverpool is a terminus station in reality with limited onward connections, whereas Manchester is much more of a hub with onward (or incoming ) passengers from the east of the Pennines, Nottingham etc.
More reason to exclude it from the Greater Manchester population figures in this context.Wigan is also on the WCML.
Wigan has almost nothing to do with Manchester. It has 0 direct services to the airport which is wrong. They’ve always been an independent Lancashire town with their own council. It’s just under greater Manchester for administrative purposesMore reason to exclude it from the Greater Manchester population figures in this context.
Surprisingly, yes. Every day's a school day on Rail Forums UK.Wigan has almost nothing to do with Manchester. It has 0 direct services to the airport.
Wigan has almost nothing to do with Manchester. It has 0 direct services to the airport which is wrong. They’ve always been an independent Lancashire town with their own council. It’s just under greater Manchester for administrative purposes
Sirprisingly, yes. Every day's a school day on Rail Forums UK.
A lot of people on the Wirral will be going to Chester for their connections southbound too (though not northbound).But aside from that, the LCR (including the Wirral) is basically on a pair of sort-of peninsulas and thus has almost no catchment outside the City Region and a small area of West Lancashire, whereas Manchester is more central and is useful for connecting from a far wider area, so it will clearly result in more demand even were the population of the area not nearly double.
Over the years there have been a number of direct service from Liverpool to Glasgow - seems to be one of the first to get the chop when there is a review.I cant believe how awfully inconvenient the Liverpool to Scotland services are for a city with identical population to Manchester.
Is it down to capacity or something else...
What do you think?
It did have an hourly TPE service (from Scotland) for several years until the Bolton route was wired and trains diverted that way.Surprisingly, yes. Every day's a school day on Rail Forums UK.
I don't think that anyone would argue that Liverpool should have identical service frequencies to Manchester but the difference is generally starkly inequitable (e.g., Scotland, London, Cardiff).
If they went back to the 3tpd each way I think that would be quite adequate with decent connections for Edinburgh at Preston or Carlisle perhaps?I wouldn't agree at all. Liverpool probably has about 1/5 of the catchment of Manchester Piccadilly (yet say 1/3 of the London service), and I think that's being kind.
You can't have direct trains from everywhere to everywhere.
If they went back to the 3tpd each way I think that would be quite adequate with decent connections for Edinburgh at Preston or Carlisle perhaps?
Time was (post-steam) that a Glasgow/Edinburgh to Manchester/Liverpool combined at Carstairs and split at Preston. Some of the Liverpool portions even went to Exchange via Ormskirk.What they need to do is divide trains at Preston for Liverpool/Manchester.
Time was (post-steam) that a Glasgow/Edinburgh to Manchester/Liverpool combined at Carstairs and split at Preston. Some of the Liverpool portions even went to Exchange via Ormskirk.