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Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

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800001

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92002

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Under normal feeding it ought to be sufficient but NR will want to cover at least an N-1 condition (loss of one of the grid infeeds for example at Crewe) to maintain normal service an adjacent infeed) which could would effective double the area being fed and thus the number of trains so there is a risk of overloading the remaining feeder and it tripping on overcurrent.
It is surprising that ECML is the recipient of a vast power upgrade and that North end of WCML which carries far more traffic is left in some places on the 1960's kit and at best the early 1970s distribution equipment. The problem with electrification is that its often not really obvious on train running that the system is running with an outage but at some point probability will conspire that a double outage occurs in the same area and then no electric trains will be moving.
Although it must be said that the ECML does see a good number of Passenger trains and little electric freight trains. In some areas dual mode trains are running on diesel for now. Till upgrades are completed

On the WCML the OHL to Manchester and Liverpool was installed in the Mid 60s and is now approaching 60 years old. From Weaver to Glasgow that now is approaching 50 years old. Although North of Preston trains are flighted together and could be spread out to allow more use of other electric trains.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I was under the impression that Crewe-Manchester (at least as far as Cheadle Hulme) was comprehensively upgraded during WCRM (new OHL, bi-di signalling etc), around 2002.
The same was true of the North Staffs line which had two rounds of upgrades, the SRA being dissatisfied with the first effort.
There was also work on Crewe-Weaver Jn (eg new fast line at Hartford Jn), and towards Liverpool, but maybe not to the OHL other than making it 125mph.
 

Andrew1395

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Could have sworn I saw one of these wizzing through Bushey on the down fast about 13:20 today. Could it have been or just a cut down 5 car Pendolino?
 

Andrew1395

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SansHache

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Reminds me of the plan for Virgin to acquire some "minilinos". How many cars were they going to be ?
The introduction of 22 6-car Baby Pendolinos to replace the WCML Voyager fleet was part of the Virgin franchise proposal in 2012. Sir Richard Branson was photographed shaking on the deal with Alstom's CEO.
A lot of preparatory work was completed, including trials of multiple unit operation with pantographs raised on each unit. The new trains were to be equipped with autocouplers to allow push-pull operation to Chester and Holyhead using Class 67 or Class 68 locomotives.
Sadly it was not to be, following the collapse of the franchise award. The new fleet would have been in service for more than 8 years now. Definitely a sliding doors movement for Alstom in the UK.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Unbranded 807002 being delivered today from Merchant Park to Oxley. Going via Edinburgh and Carlisle.
Presumably using wires all the way from Darlington.
But has to reverse at Wolverhampton as it cannot use the unwired direct link from Bushbury Jn to Stafford Rd Jn next to Oxley.
 

800001

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Unbranded 807002 being delivered today from Merchant Park to Oxley. Going via Edinburgh and Carlisle.
It’s not on delivery, it’s heading back across to continue more testing. Unit is still not accepted by Avanti, and is still a Hitachi test train.
 

59CosG95

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Here is the more complex answer to the power supply issues from a good known source:

"The government's direct involvement has been a forced reduction in the scope of the power supply upgrades along the Crewe - Preston section, and that's in addition to the poor supply capacity north and south of Carlisle as others have mentioned. The "new" feeder at Willow Park (close to Newton-le-Willows, and replacing the old Parkside feeder) was supposed to support autotransformer feeding all the way to the neutral section at Crewe Coal Yard; work started, as evidenced by the newer added insulators at the top of the structures, but got stopped by the government as a cost saving measure. The result is that the section between the neutrals at Crewe Coal Yard and just north of Weaver Junction (both Runcorn and Warrington routes) is still being fed by an old arrangement of conductors and circuit breakers. This has always been a weak section, I'm sure that drivers of (class) 90- and 92-hauled trains along here can confirm that. One problem that it is fed through old oil-filled circuit breakers, which can only see a limited number of trips (30?) before the oil must be changed; clearly this is a maintenance cost that Network Rail could do without. A related problem is that the poor supply is distorted by pairs of 90s, particularly those accelerating along the Down Slow Line north from Crewe where much of the train is still on the climb out of Basford Hall yard; and this distortion can cause premature overload circuit trips (the "distance protection" on the feeder sees a waveform distortion and assumes it's a line fault, not a freight train).

Of course this whole area would have had its feeder arrangements altered when work on HS2 was carried out in the Crewe area, but we know what's happened to that....."
I'm sure other OLE-minded folk can divulge more details here, but as far as I can recall:
  • The new connection at Frodsham is live
  • The new ATFS at Crewe (situated nr the existing on on the Manchester lines) was built but remains un-commissioned and mothballed
  • All the AT sites between Crewe & Weaver Jn were built but never commissioned
  • RC/BT (Return Conductor/Booster Transformer) operation persists between Whitmore (Staffs) & Weaver Jn (essentially in the area nominally fed by Crewe)
  • AT feeding is in operation south of Whitmore (inc. Northampton Loop but exc. the West Midlands, which was outwith WCPSU's scope) as far as Bourne End (Herts)
    • Bushey ATFS (Herts) was meant to AT feed from Bourne End to North Wembley but that got mothballed, like Crewe. Work recently restarted, then paused again
  • AT feeding is in operation north from Weaver Jn to Euxton Jn (essentially Willow Park ATFS's feeding area) and from Carnforth north to Great Strickland (essentially Oxenholme ATFS's feeding area).
    • The section fed by Catterall (i.e. Euxton - Preston - Lancaster - Carnforth) is still RC/BT but ATF supports went up on the masts.
    • IIRC a new 400kV grid feeder is planned nr Penwortham, and that would presumably pave the way for ATFs in the Preston area)
    • Beyond Gt Strickland, RC/BT feeding persists north all the way to Glasgow. Harker ATFS (between Carlisle & Gretna Jn) has had its AT equipment installed but never commissioned.
    • North of the Border, Elvanfoot FS was mooted for AT feeding which never materialised.
 

92002

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It’s not on delivery, it’s heading back across to continue more testing. Unit is still not accepted by Avanti, and is still a Hitachi test train.
Certainly was delivered from Merchant Park today and put in a good mileage in the process.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'm sure other OLE-minded folk can divulge more details here, but as far as I can recall:
  • The new connection at Frodsham is live
  • The new ATFS at Crewe (situated nr the existing on on the Manchester lines) was built but remains un-commissioned and mothballed
  • All the AT sites between Crewe & Weaver Jn were built but never commissioned
  • RC/BT (Return Conductor/Booster Transformer) operation persists between Whitmore (Staffs) & Weaver Jn (essentially in the area nominally fed by Crewe)
  • AT feeding is in operation south of Whitmore (inc. Northampton Loop but exc. the West Midlands, which was outwith WCPSU's scope) as far as Bourne End (Herts)
    • Bushey ATFS (Herts) was meant to AT feed from Bourne End to North Wembley but that got mothballed, like Crewe. Work recently restarted, then paused again
  • AT feeding is in operation north from Weaver Jn to Euxton Jn (essentially Willow Park ATFS's feeding area) and from Carnforth north to Great Strickland (essentially Oxenholme ATFS's feeding area).
    • The section fed by Catterall (i.e. Euxton - Preston - Lancaster - Carnforth) is still RC/BT but ATF supports went up on the masts.
    • IIRC a new 400kV grid feeder is planned nr Penwortham, and that would presumably pave the way for ATFs in the Preston area)
    • Beyond Gt Strickland, RC/BT feeding persists north all the way to Glasgow. Harker ATFS (between Carlisle & Gretna Jn) has had its AT equipment installed but never commissioned.
    • North of the Border, Elvanfoot FS was mooted for AT feeding which never materialised.
Do we know if any of the AT shortfall will be progressed in the CP7 timeframe?
There's a lot of investment not delivering any benefits there.
I do remember the northern section (north of Gt Strickland) being axed because of the decline in expected freight traffic (in line with the end of port-to-power station coal traffic).
 

800001

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Certainly was delivered from Merchant Park today and put in a good mileage in the process.
Well if it has been delivered to Avanti I stand corrected.
My understanding was it remained a Hitachi test train. As any units getting delivered to Avanti are also deliver wrapped in the Avanti livery.
 
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92002

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Well if it has been delivered to Avanti I stand corrected.
My understanding was it remained a Hitachi test train. As any units getting delivered to Avanti are also deliver wrapped in the Avanti livery.
Any train delivered from the factory, whether brand new or returned for work will probably not be accepted to the fleet. In all probability the mileage test may or will have been returned to zero for a another test free milage to accumulate. Livery is not really a sign of acceptance and is invariably applied at the depot.
 

800001

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Any train delivered from the factory, whether brand new or returned for work will probably not be accepted to the fleet. In all probability the mileage test may or will have been returned to zero for an another test free milage to accumulate. Livery is not really a sign of acceptance and is invariably applied at the depot.
You are mistaking what I am classing as delivered.

I, and many others class a delivery move as a unit being delivered and accepted by the customer.

So as I stated earlier the move today was not a delivery move, mearly a positioning move from the factory to Oxley on behalf of Hitachi so they can continue testing.

As for livery, again you are mistaken. Units leaving Hitachi now for delivery to Avanti, depart with livery applied after doing the relevant mileage acceptance overnight on the ECML.

I won’t comment any further on it, as this could go round and round in circles.
 

Richard123

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Under normal feeding it ought to be sufficient but NR will want to cover at least an N-1 condition (loss of one of the grid infeeds for example at Crewe) to maintain normal service an adjacent infeed) which could would effective double the area being fed and thus the number of trains so there is a risk of overloading the remaining feeder and it tripping on overcurrent.
It is surprising that ECML is the recipient of a vast power upgrade and that North end of WCML which carries far more traffic is left in some places on the 1960's kit and at best the early 1970s distribution equipment. The problem with electrification is that its often not really obvious on train running that the system is running with an outage but at some point probability will conspire that a double outage occurs in the same area and then no electric trains will be moving.
The WCML has seen vast spend on traction power over the past two decades since the start of WCRM; well over a billion to my memory, maybe double that in today's money. Most control periods had multi-hundred million pound upgrades in the business plan.

However the technology used there is clearly not cheap and there are significant stretches still untouched.

ECML's upgrade only started more recently, and based on the NR business plans a fraction of the budget spent on WCML.

Even on ECML, it seems work stopped on the Scottish section during Covid, perhaps related to the DfT view that passenger traffic would not return and timetables could be slimmed. Boats and ha'pennies of tar perhaps?
 

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