Eurovision 2024 discussion.

[takno]

Not sure the average person voting in Eurovision over the last couple of decades has much interest in politics and probably has virtually no knowledge of UK government policies. It would however be useful to know what the demographic of voters actually is. I imagined it's biased towards under 30s.

I would have guessed at not many people under 25, and lots of people above 30. It's a very Radio 2 vibe.

 

[DanNCL]

On the matter of Israeli participation, my opinion is that they shouldn’t have been there for two completely unrelated reasons. The first is that they’re not in Europe, and yes I’ll argue the same about Australia too.
The second is that a precedent was set when Russia and Belarus were kicked out in 2022 for the war in Ukraine, the precedent had been set that a country engaging in an illegal war would be excluded, yet this wasn’t applied to Israel, so one rule for them…

Honestly reading online about all this fluff and nonsense about a low quality singing contest just makes me fear for humanity. The fact that the Israeli singer was booed and had to have an armed escort just shows how utterly warped humanity is becoming. Did she authorise the use of lethal force in Gaza? No. Has she committed to wiping Gaza off the face of the planet? No. Her crime then? Being from Israel. Can you imagine the response if a signer from Gaza or the West Bank was invited and booed at? Yet their government is as equally committed to violence and murder as the Israeli government.

All this stupid virtue signalling needs to stop, because none of it makes a blind bit of difference. In the conflict in Gaza both governments are equally responsible, but their people are not, at least the ones not taking up arms. So everyone should stop taking it out on their people, its stupid and childish, and it makes me really angry.

Believe she’s joining the Israeli military next week. She’s not as innocent one might initially think.

I agree that neither side is innocent in the Gaza conflict but there’s one staggering difference between the two sides - one is committing what many would consider to be a genocide and the other isn’t. That’s not saying the other is innocent, Hamas are far from innocent.

You're simply projecting your own prejudices of the UK onto the whole of Europe.

Sorry, but out of the whole of Europe, the UK is arguably one of the least xenophobic/racist/whatever word you want to use whose meaning has been totally diluted over the past decade or two. Just look at the amount of inter-race marriages we have compared compared to Europe. Polls consistently show us as more tolerant to foreigners too. I honestly don't know what you're basing it on that you think we are less tolerant than continental European nations, everything points to the contrary.

Ordinary people in the UK generally aren’t racist/xenophobic. But our government definitely is and that’s what everyone else judges us on.

What may not have helped here was that unfounded allegations were made against the Greek artist.

She yawned at the same time the Israeli artist (who, for avoidance of doubt, should NOT have been excluded IMV) was having an interview. Probably just because she was tired, rather than anything else.

Yet you get the "Sun" calling her a "brat". Nice. The UK gutter media to a tee.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2024 ==

Absolutely, the likes of the Sun have done what they always do and made an already bad situation worse.

 

[najaB]

I would have guessed at not many people under 25, and lots of people above 30. It's a very Radio 2 vibe.

In the UK, yes. In most other countries there is a lot of youth interest.

 

[dgl]

The problem with our entry is it was an attempt to do europop but it simply didn't have the quality of europop and everyone saw right through it. Whether you like their music or not the standard of music in the rest of Europe is simply higher than that in the UK. The artists are more talented and the production is generally better.

I also agree with other posters regarding our image on the world stage, by having a government that doesn't reflect the views of the majority of the population but seemingly having the loudest voice it's easy to get the wrong idea about a country.

 

[AM9]

I'm sorry that is utter nonsense. Its a singing contest no more no less, I seem to remember in the days when I watched the show that most contestants waived their national flag, it was all just part of the show. But now Israelis do it and its "in your face". It makes me laugh when I read reports gushing about how tolerant the event is, and how love reigns over everything, except the Israeli contestant of course... Utter, complete nonsense...

So you disagree, - like mine you post expresses just another opinion. The event however has become political over many years, public votes are often cast in line with groups of nations' following common socio-cultural that venture into political views, (e.g. the the Scandinavian affinities and the ex-iron curtain east European nations etc.), but that's the nature of any competition where support is tribal with flags exacerbating following to the extreme. Generally, the 'in your face' (not sure why you editied my comment with double inverted commas) falls somewhere between enthusiasm and something more devisive, so in times of perceived vulnerability, it might be more wise to reel it in abit, but in this case, the response was to carry firearms and be prepared for battle.
I think the 'competiton' in the event is really for broadcast and production organisations to showcase their expertise on a programme with a massive audience. As is usual, the production was cutting edge with some interesting diversions to (shore up/distract from, - choose appropriate term) plenty of mediocre one-shot songs.

 

[takno]

In the UK, yes. In most other countries there is a lot of youth interest.

There's more youth interest in some countries, but I wouldn't overstate it. It tends not to be covered on the youth-oriented channels in most countries that I'm aware of, and it belongs to the state broadcasters who are rarely particularly down with the kids. Even the younger artists usually have a bit of a "loved by grannies everywhere" vibe.

One of the issues for other countries is that they can't really put forward serious music that's loved by big domestic audiences, because it either gets mocked for being a bad copy of English, or gets null points from an international audience who are not there to be challenged. The upshot is broadly a show dominated by rather conservative generic pap, which tends to skew older.

 

[najaB]

There's more youth interest in some countries, but I wouldn't overstate it. It tends not to be covered on the youth-oriented channels in most countries that I'm aware of, and it belongs to the state broadcasters who are rarely particularly down with the kids. Even the younger artists usually have a bit of a "loved by grannies everywhere" vibe.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that it's youth-dominated by any stretch, but you just have to look at the artists to see that it's definitely not the sole preserve of the blue-rinse brigade to the extent that it is in the UK.

 

[nw1]

Oh, I'm not suggesting that it's youth-dominated by any stretch, but you just have to look at the artists to see that it's definitely not the sole preserve of the blue-rinse brigade to the extent that it is in the UK.

To be fair, after hearing them on phone-ins, etc, I'm not sure the average Eurovision fan in the UK could be considered the "blue-rinse brigade" these days, and (if you're talking about the R2 listenership, apologies if you are not) R2 definitely doesn't have a "blue-rinse" image.

If the listenership was at all youth-oriented outside the UK, you can see why there might be resentment towards the UK due to the actions and rhetoric of our Government. Presumably a lot of continental European youth might formerly have wanted to emigrate to the UK and our Government have basically stopped them.

 

[najaB]

To be fair, I'm not sure the average Eurovision listener in the UK could be considered the "blue-rinse brigade" these days, and (if you're talking about the R2 listenership, apologies if not) R2 definitely doesn't have a "blue-rinse" image.

If the listenership was at all youth-oriented outside the UK, you can see why there might be resentment towards the UK due to the actions of our Government. Presumably a lot of continental European youth might formerly have wanted to emigrate to the UK and our Government have basically stopped them.

Yeah, being somewhat tongue-in-cheek there, but the demographic definitely skews older in the UK than many other countries, particularly as you go further east in Europe. That said, it's become more popular among younger people here over the last few years.

 

[dosxuk]

I do agree the song was a bit bland, but then again so were a lot of the others. Something must be making people disfavour the UK entry more than all the other bland songs; and presumably that thing is politics.

The main reason we consistently score poorly is because we're great at entering middle-of-the-road songs that don't stand out to the audience - you only get points from the audience if you are in the top ten of songs according to each country. The odd time we have a song that does actually stand out (e.g. Spaceman in 2022), we score well. When we send a mediocre song, performed weakly (e.g. 2023, 2024), we score badly. Even if every country in the competition rates you the 11th best song, then you get zero points.

Politics is a factor, but it's far outweighed by the quality of the songs and cultural links between countries.

Regarding the UK entry, I read somewhere that the staging was meant to represent a spaceship heading for a black hole; It looked more like dilapidated municipal lavatory to me. Compared to what some, many, of the other countries managed, it was pathetic.

Reminded me of the bathroom from the original Saw movie... I don't think it helped that everyone involved was going on about how creative and amazing the staging was this year - proper bubble mentality.

 

[Mojo]

I do wonder whether the UK, rightly or wrongly, now has an international image of being a mildly-xenophobic and distinctly, shall we say, "uncool" country. A country you wouldn't be seen dead voting for.

Given that the UK came second overall (and 5th in the public vote) a mere two years ago, what are you basing this on?

 

[takno]

Reminded me of the bathroom from the original Saw movie... I don't think it helped that everyone involved was going on about how creative and amazing the staging was this year - proper bubble mentality.

The British performance was absolutely awful, really claustrophic, tedious and uncomfortable to watch. Worst thing on the show this year - even worse than the segment in the middle with last year's winner planking and droning on for what seemed like forever.

Mind you, I thought the performance aspect of the Swiss one was pretty tedious as well, but they seemed to carry that one by having a much better song and a performer who was so obviously infectiously happy.

 

[alex397]

I think the UK entry in 2022 did so well because it was a fun song, unpretentious and didn’t take itself too seriously. This year’s UK entry was musically bland that tried to be too serious, and sounding like most of the same songs they play on Radio 1.
Olly Alexander is no doubt talented, but I found this song boring.

 

[Energy]

This year’s UK entry was musically bland that tried to be too serious, and sounding like most of the same songs they play on Radio 1.
Olly Alexander is no doubt talented, but I found this song boring.

The BBC have a good article and what we need to win Eurovision.

The song is good and well made from a compositional respective, its why we got a good result from the juries. But to the public it sounds fairly similar to other pop songs. The charts often favour familiarity but Eurovision likes well made, memorable songs.

It also didn't feel that close to Olly Alexander, its a fairly generic theme. For those unaware the performer used to be in a group and has been breaking out and going solo recently, it seems odd that they didn't decide to use this as a theme.

The idea of a the rotating camera is good, and was really well done with the choreography. But the urinals didn't really make sense with the 'dizzy' theme. A set boxed in for the first few mins also blocks out the live audience.

Overall an unsuprising result. Its undeniably well made, giving us a good jury vote, but it's forgettable-ness gave a poor public vote. The UK doesn't have a strong alliance with other countries so our public vote can be really all-or-nothing.

I don't think we need the public vote to return, our past Eurovision acts and Boaty McBoatFace have shown that the British public do quite like taking the piss.

 

[takno]

Overall an unsuprising result. Its undeniably well made, giving us a good jury vote, but it's forgettable-ness gave a poor public vote. The UK doesn't have a strong alliance with other countries so our public vote can be really all-or-nothing.

Ireland and Australia are arguably in our corner when there's something worth talking about. Norway also illustrate that alliances can easily be worthless - similar to us they put in a technically interesting and impressive song which was unfortunately quite dull in practice, and they got virtually nothing from Denmark, Sweden, Finland or Iceland.

 

[birchesgreen]

There are 26 (usually) songs, you need to stand out from them so people remember it when they decide who to vote for.

 

[JD2168]

The song by Olly Alexander I thought was a bit poor & at the start the vocals were lacking as you could hardly hear them. I thought the Ireland song was dreadful, just a lot of shouting & screaming with little singing. The winning song by Switzerland was ok I just thought myself that the Croatia song was more likeable & catchy.

A bad year for the EBU boss who is normally very well liked with cheering but the booing was on a similar level in both when he was shown & when he rushed through the Netherlands Jury vote.

 

[nw1]

Given that the UK came second overall (and 5th in the public vote) a mere two years ago, what are you basing this on?

That was very much an outlier in the general pattern for the last 10-15 years or so.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Honestly reading online about all this fluff and nonsense about a low quality singing contest just makes me fear for humanity. The fact that the Israeli singer was booed and had to have an armed escort just shows how utterly warped humanity is becoming. Did she authorise the use of lethal force in Gaza? No. Has she committed to wiping Gaza off the face of the planet? No. Her crime then? Being from Israel. Can you imagine the response if a signer from Gaza or the West Bank was invited and booed at? Yet their government is as equally committed to violence and murder as the Israeli government.

All this stupid virtue signalling needs to stop, because none of it makes a blind bit of difference. In the conflict in Gaza both governments are equally responsible, but their people are not, at least the ones not taking up arms. So everyone should stop taking it out on their people, its stupid and childish, and it makes me really angry.

Wasn't the Israeli entry incredibly political to the extent they were forced to change the lyrics? Whilst she isn't the one actively committing genocide she is very happy to support it.

And you make no mention of the harassment from the Israeli delegation either, despite bringing up the security their entry has needed

 

[najaB]

Wasn't the Israeli entry incredibly political to the extent they were forced to change the lyrics?

It definitely could have been interpreted as political. Apparently it was the Israeli president who requested changes.

 

[DanNCL]

Wasn't the Israeli entry incredibly political to the extent they were forced to change the lyrics? Whilst she isn't the one actively committing genocide she is very happy to support it.

It definitely could have been interpreted as political. Apparently it was the Israeli president who requested changes.

Not just the lyrics that were political, the title was too. The original title of the song was 'October Rain', which was renamed 'Hurricane'. The chorus, which goes 'I'm still broken from this Hurricane' was originally 'I'm still wet from this October rain'. The Hebrew part also had to be changed, the last line originally translated as 'They were all good children, each one of them'. Plenty of other lines were also changed but a lot of it was allowed to stay.

No doubt whatsoever that the song was written about the Hamas attack in October last year. Whilst songs about this sort of thing have been allowed before, good example being Ukraine's 2016 winner which was about the deportation of Crimean Tatars by the Soviets, they've only been permitted about historical events, not current/ongoing events. Certainly if Ukraine were to try sending a song about February 2022 it wouldn't be allowed for the same reason.

 

[Bantamzen]

Wasn't the Israeli entry incredibly political to the extent they were forced to change the lyrics? Whilst she isn't the one actively committing genocide she is very happy to support it.

As I understand she referred to those people killed in October. Music is often emotional and evocative, and is often inspired by real world events. Remember Bono literally screaming into the mic singing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" not long after the bomb attack on Enniskillen? Was he supporting the the IRA by singing about Bloody Sunday? No. Maybe for balance a Palestinian singer should have been invited along to sing?

It incredible that people can wave the flag of a government that is committing its own war crimes with impunity, and nobody bats an eyelid but an Israeli singers references the attacks in October and it is supporting genocide. As I have mentioned above, I see blame on both sides. My point is that if someone is going to condemn Israel's government and actions, then Palestine's actions should be equally condemned. But that doesn't happen.

And you make no mention of the harassment from the Israeli delegation either, despite bringing up the security their entry has needed

Well I wasn't aware of it, hence I made no mention.

 

[najaB]

My point is that if someone is going to condemn Israel's government and actions, then Palestine's actions should be equally condemned. But that doesn't happen.

To place blame where it lies, one should be critical of Hamas rather than "Palestine" - for one thing Hamas is only in charge of one part of Palestine, and for the other they don't (or at least didn't) enjoy popular support. They won a slim majority in the last parliamentary elections which were almost two decades ago and the population hasn't had a chance to sling them out since.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm sorry that is utter nonsense. It’s a singing contest no more no less, I seem to remember in the days when I watched the show that most contestants waived their national flag, it was all just part of the show. But now Israelis do it and it’s "in your face". It makes me laugh when I read reports gushing about how tolerant the event is, and how love reigns over everything, except the Israeli contestant of course... Utter, complete nonsense...

This wouldn’t have happened if Israel had been banned, as they ought to have been.

 

[Bantamzen]

To place blame where it lies, one should be critical of Hamas rather than "Palestine" - for one thing Hamas is only in charge of one part of Palestine, and for the other they don't (or at least didn't) enjoy popular support. They won a slim majority in the last parliamentary elections which were almost two decades ago and the population hasn't had a chance to sling them out since.

Well indeed, as one should be critical of the Israeli government not the Israeli people, or their singers. Which has been my point all along.

This wouldn’t have happened if Israel had been banned, as they ought to have been.

Quite what any of this actually achieves is beyond me. Does anyone even for a moment think that that banning Russian acts has Putin rethinking his attitude towards Ukraine? Would it make a difference if the same were applied to Israel?

 

[AM9]

Well indeed, as one should be critical of the Israeli government not the Israeli people, or their singers. Which has been my point all along.


Quite what any of this actually achieves is beyond me. Does anyone even for a moment think that that banning Russian acts has Putin rethinking his attitude towards Ukraine? Would it make a difference if the same were applied to Israel?

Yes it would. However far the current Israeli administration is driven by the zionist extremists within, the population of the country has an interest in (and in some ways a craving for) western culture. Banning Israel from entering could well undermine Netanyahu's survival in the current political mess that is the government there. Hence some countries' pussy-footing around actually saying much about it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Quite what any of this actually achieves is beyond me. Does anyone even for a moment think that that banning Russian acts has Putin rethinking his attitude towards Ukraine? Would it make a difference if the same were applied to Israel?

Israel thrives on Western approval. The sanctions against South Africa, which also ran a racist ethnostate based on apartheid, were an important factor in the dismantling of that system.

 

[Bantamzen]

Honestly I don't believe for a second that Israel would suddenly change it's policy towards Palestine simply because they were chucked out of Eurovision.

 

[najaB]

Honestly I don't believe for a second that Israel would suddenly change it's policy towards Palestine simply because they were chucked out of Eurovision.

No. Of course they wouldn't. No single action would be enough to get the government to change course. But concerted action would likely, over time, lead to a moderation of their attitude towards their non-Jewish neighbours.

 

[DanNCL]

As I understand she referred to those people killed in October. Music is often emotional and evocative, and is often inspired by real world events. Remember Bono literally screaming into the mic singing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" not long after the bomb attack on Enniskillen? Was he supporting the the IRA by singing about Bloody Sunday? No. Maybe for balance a Palestinian singer should have been invited along to sing?

Bono wasn’t going to a competition where political lyrics are banned, Eden Golan was. If now after the contest she wants to release the full unedited version of ‘October Rain’ there’s no reason why she couldn’t.