Worst Rolling Stock in UK

[Pumbaa]

I've never see a 390 rammed to the conditions i've seen a 220, where the first/standard ratio is ludicrous

390 FC is often rammed in the peaks. 390s are always rammed in the peaks regardless, but FC space is not wasted at these times.

 

[mumrar]

1st / Standard ratio too much in favour of 1st.

You're not the only one to mention this, so ignore that I've only quoted you. The LCHS sets that were withdrawn immediately before the 390s entered service were either exclusively Mk3 sets or Mk2 sets with a Mk3 buffet. The Mk3 sets had 2 FC, 1 FC buffet and 4 SC carriages (sometimes 5 SC). The hybrid sets were 3 FC, 1 FC buffet and 5 SC carriages. The hybrid Mk2 set is exactly the same split as a 390 and the Mk3 set fractionally better. Since the Pendolino's much faster timetables permit business travellers to commute to/from further places outside London then an increase is not unreasonable.

Looked for info on formations to clarify as I'm working from memory, but the principle still remains about 1st class ratios.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Actually, I think the longitudinal seating on the 378s makes perfect sense, given the routes that they are used on. Trying to squeeze on (or sometimes off) a 313 on the central part of the North London line in the peaks was not always possible. The increase in capacity (even if some of that is standing) of the 378s over the 313s is amazing, and very necessary. Yeah, the seats are not great (but...compared with the rock hard seats of the new 09 stock on the Victoria line...are not so bad), but they seem to represent a sensible solution to the needs of the lines they're used on.

Pacers, however, I can make no excuses from, apart from that they were cheap (and probably helped keep some rural lines open when they were introduced). Some of the busier and inter-urban routes they are used on now are clearly unsuitable for them.

And pendolinos - claustrophobia city!

 

[466.networkers]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the 508/2s ....

They were so unreliable that when Southeastern made the wise decision to replace them with Class 466s that no-one else wants them!

 

[HST Power]

HSTs?! Smooth?! I'd like to disagree on account of my jeans covered that were covered in orange juice after a recent trip!

It's a thousand times worse when you're holding the orange juice at 35,000 feet and flying over Pakistan, where the turbulence is appalling!

HST's can be a bit rough sometimes, but I'd say they are generally quite good and give you a comfortable journey!

 

[GospelOak117]

I've not travelled on the 378's yet, but I was not inf avour of their longitudinal seating when they were introduced. It seems to me to be a step backwards for Overground trains.

It's just TfL trying to make everything look like the underground as that is popular and replacing proper suburban trains with underground style ones is certainly a step in the wrong direction IMO.

And you said about groaning when a 153 turns up...I like them but on a sunny saturday like today a single car 153 on the Felixstowe branch for example; there is nothing worse!

 

[Lampshade]

They were a good idea at the time but they are obsolete at best today. The 144s on the other hand are much better, proper seats and three carriages.

 

[Pumbaa]

They were a good idea at the time but they are obsolete at best today. The 144s on the other hand are much better, proper seats and three carriages.

Are we talking about Pacers or Pendos here?!

 

[HST Power]

The word 'Pacer' is scribbled all over this thread sixty times over, but what's wrong with the Pendolinos?

10 more posts to go....

 

[Lampshade]

Are we talking about Pacers or Pendos here?!

Pacers

I'm watching F1 and had the reply screen on for ages, didn't anticipate the number of 390-related posts that were made between me clicking reply and actually submitting it hock:

 

[HST Power]

:
I'm watching F1 and had the reply screen on for ages, didn't anticipate the number of 390-related posts that were made between me clicking reply and actually submitting it hock:

I've given up on F1, it's just Vettel, Vettel, Vettel!

And indeed, it never hesitates to amaze me how quickly these posts roll in. I think around 16:00 is peak time for heavy posting, up until about ten or eleven.

 

[Yew]

They were a good idea at the time but they are obsolete at best today. The 144s on the other hand are much better, proper seats and three carriages.

Not all of the 144's In fact I would say a minority of them. the seats are better, but the suspension isnt

 

[BestWestern]

...I shall put on my coat and prepare to leave before I post this, in anticipation of having said the obvious and started WWIII....

Umm, Voyagers...??!!

Yes, they were (sort of) revolutionary, but I'd have to say the poor design elements are plain to see; intense vibrations throughout the whole train under acceleration, cramped interior due to the completely superfluous 'tilting' profile on non-tilting 220's, and of course the stinky bogs. Just not nice really :cry:

I'd also like to nominate a 444, not because it's a poor train but because the seating is woefully uncomfortable, being almost solid. Not what one needs when trying to have a kip on a journey of more than an hour!

 

[HST Power]

...I shall put on my coat and prepare to leave before I post this, in anticipation of having said the obvious and started WWIII....

No comment!

 

[Lampshade]

...I shall put on my coat and prepare to leave before I post this, in anticipation of having said the obvious and started WWIII....

Umm, Voyagers...??!!

Yes, they were (sort of) revolutionary, but I'd have to say the poor design elements are plain to see; intense vibrations throughout the whole train under acceleration, cramped interior due to the completely superfluous 'tilting' profile on non-tilting 220's, and of course the stinky bogs. Just not nice really :cry:

I'd also like to nominate a 444, not because it's a poor train but because the seating is woefully uncomfortable, being almost solid. Not what one needs when trying to have a kip on a journey of more than an hour!

Voyagers are a bit ropey but 222s are much improved. When travelling between Manchester and London I usually go via Chesterfield because I prefer the 222s to the 390s

The 444s have standard Desiro seats which are a bit of a love/hate thing.

 

[GospelOak117]

I'd also like to nominate a 444, not because it's a poor train but because the seating is woefully uncomfortable, being almost solid. Not what one needs when trying to have a kip on a journey of more than an hour!

..........absobloomingexactly . The 442, there WAS (as in not anymore since GatEx hacked out the old interiors) a comfortable train for the 2 hours + to Dorset, or even dare I say it, the 411......

 

[142094]

Been away for exams for the past week or so, nice to see the anti-142 threads going strong

 

[HST Power]

Been away for exams for the past week or so, nice to see the anti-142 threads going strong

As always! They'll never die as far as this forum is concerned! I take it you were doing GCSE?

 

[ushawk]

Class 378 for me - longitudinal seating on Overground trains is wrong, although it is good during peaks only.

 

[TomJ93]

390 - 294 standard 145 first thats 2.02 standard seat for every first seat
220 - 174 standard 26 first thats 4.54 standard seat for every first seat

I have never been on a pendolino where first is full and standing.
So how many 390s are running round with 7 standard and 4 first then.

The fact that a 220 has less standard class coaches then a 350/1 is ludicrous.

How many will be running around in the next few years? 30+, how many lengthened Voyagers are planned? 0.

264 standard class seats in a 350/1. Say what you like about the 390s not have more standard at the moment. The previous WC Loco hauled had the same. The Pretendolino is running around in 90+ standard +4first+DVT as well! It's how it's been run for a while and up until a boom in numbers catered very well. The boom has resulted in the order for more carriages to rectify this problem too. Unless your very tall, I can see a problem, I'm fairly tall and have no problems, neither does my 6ft4" friend.

 

[Minilad]

The fact that a 220 has less standard class coaches then a 350/1 is ludicrous.

How many will be running around in the next few years? 30+, how many lengthened Voyagers are planned? 0.

And who was it that blighted XC with Voyagers before leaving them in the lurch.
Oh yeah, that would be Virgin

Don't really get the comparison with 350s as they are hardly for the same market.
We all know Voyagers are too short so I don't really know what you are trying to prove here

 

[TomJ93]

And who was it that blighted XC with Voyagers before leaving them in the lurch.
Oh yeah, that would be Virgin

Don't really get the comparison with 350s as they are hardly for the same market.
We all know Voyagers are too short so I don't really know what you are trying to prove here

Sorry I read that as Virgin when i'm sure it says the SRA
But it's not too much to ask a company like Arriva to dip their hands in their own (DB's) pockets, lengthen the Voyager's and be rewarded by more people using XC/being able to offer a better service.

The point is the 350 is a 4 car local unit, that can also do long distance and has first class provisions. You are arguing that 4 fc carriages on a 390 is silly whereas it isn't on a XC train.

 

[Minilad]

I am not arguing anything about Voyagers at all as the OP was about why I dont like 390s
Oh yeah of course it was the SRA that introduced Voyagers with all the fanfare of Operation Princess.
Anyway you stick with your lovely Pendolinos and I am sure you will enjoy every minute of them. I am off to reminisce about 87s on the WCML !!

 

[TomJ93]

You stick with your reminiscence, i'm booked on an 86 from London to Scotland in August

 

[All Line Rover]

Oh come on! Why stop at 158s? I would much rather have the comfort levels of 1st class on a 225 on my branch line - built around the same time.

There are two slight problems with introducing 225's on most branch lines:

• There's no electricity (so the train wouldn't move an inch!)
• The train wouldn't fit the platforms!

 

[TomJ93]

There are two slight problems with introducing 225's on most branch lines:

• There's no electricity (so the train wouldn't move an inch!)
• The train wouldn't fit the platforms!

Who needs electricity when you have a 37 or something in place of a 91?

 

[All Line Rover]

I would rather do any run on the WCML on a 350

Are you mad!? Imagine if Virgin had 350's operating the WCML! They're slow, they're noisy, they have few toilets, some have 3+2 seating, they're cold in winter, the carriage with a toilet often smells, First Class it too small, First Class only has 2+2 seating, the list is endless....

Pendolinos aren't excellent, but are much better for InterCity services than a 350. (I only ever go on a 350 between Crewe and London when I need to travel at short notice.)

As others have said, First Class on Pendolinos can be full at peak hours, particularly on the Liverpool to London route. A main benefit of First Class is that you are almost guaranteed a seat and that it won't be too full, so it's only sensible to have a large number of First Class carriages. Most of Virgin's revenue comes from First Class passengers anyway.

East Coast do not have a significantly "better" First/Standard Class ratio, and Virgin's ratio will be fine on 11 carriage Pendolinos.

I have been in a Mark 2 carriage a few times, and have found the vestibules to be awfully loud. Pendolinos are far quieter - quiet enough so that you can make a phone call!

Pendolinos are quiet, smooth, fast, have plenty of toilets, have a gigantic kitchen and have excellent First Class carriages. Standard Class priority seats have plenty of legroom, but if that still doesn't satisfy you, just upgrade to First Class!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Are you mad!? Imagine if Virgin had 350's operating the WCML! They're slow, they're noisy, they have few toilets, some have 3+2 seating, they're cold in winter, the carriage with a toilet often smells, First Class it too small, First Class only has 2+2 seating, the list is endless....

Personal choice. Smooth, quiet, peaceful. Only 350/2s have 3+2 seating, a tend to be stuck on the tring/Northampton-Euston runs, as well as a couple of Birmingham-Euston/Liverpool runs. Sit away from the toilet, and if I didn't have to be anywhere fast, I would happily stay on a 350/1 all day.

 

[Pumbaa]

I would happily stay on a 350/1 all day.

As would I, they are fantastic units. Smooth, airy, comfortable seats (I think anyway) and great at their job.

 

[Ivo]

You can guess what my vote will go to can't you?

I'll give you a clue: It's a 3-car 3xx operated by LM and NT.