Rail firm to add 220 trains a week from December

[yorksrob]

Well we know they got rid of that to try and encourage people into HS1.

True - there would be less incentive for people to stump up the HS1 premium !

That said, wasn't this an ambition before the franchise system disappeared up its own behind ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2024 ==

Both are still in use - freight along there isn’t all routed via the platforms. Delayed services running fast still use the through lines at Paddock Wood & Headcorn.

That's good to know !

 

[paul1609]

Both are still in use - freight along there isn’t all routed via the platforms. Delayed services running fast still use the through lines at Paddock Wood & Headcorn.

Dont think thats correct unless its happened in the last few weeks. Paddock Wood, The points at the country end of the up through were temporarily out of use with all traffic routed through the platform and had been for some months. I understood the down through had recently joined them. Headcorn is still in use.

 

[yorksrob]

Now you mention it, the up fast through Paddock Wood did look a bit rusty last time I went through there.

 

[Timmyd]

Perhaps rush hour should be treated differently to pre-covid but I am of the opinion that for off-peak and weekend services at least, it would be a sensible target. Using the Penge East line as an example, aiming for 2tph to Blackfriars all the way through the peak probably isn’t reasonable, but aiming to restore the pre-covid turn-up-and-go service certainly is. As you said yourself travel
patterns have changed and we should be focusing on catering for leisure travellers

Why would you not want to maintain the Blackfriars services? They’re pretty well used now at least in the up direction especially as they have been reduced to 4 from 6 cars. Evenings less so due to the very poor hourly service and the very awkward connection in the down direction at Blackfriars which makes it easier for most people from Farringdon, City etc to take a Thameslink and change at Herne Hill.

 

[PGAT]

Why would you not want to maintain the Blackfriars services? They’re pretty well used now at least in the up direction especially as they have been reduced to 4 from 6 cars. Evenings less so due to the very poor hourly service and the very awkward connection in the down direction at Blackfriars which makes it easier for most people from Farringdon, City etc to take a Thameslink and change at Herne Hill.

I havent used those peak services so I can’t really comment about any improvements regarding it. The reduction seemed to indicate they weren’t too well used

 

[Timmyd]

I havent used those peak services so I can’t really comment about any improvements regarding it. The reduction seemed to indicate they weren’t too well used

I use the up trains most days. Admittedly not crush loaded but busy enough and also play an important part in keeping things sensible on the Thameslink trains from Herne Hill, otherwise they’d be impossible to board if lots more passengers were changing there

 

[dk1]

Explains the need for 170 drivers in the recent campaign which before this news I couldn't believe it was down to just retirements and general staff turnover.

More good news.

 

[Mikey C]

Well SE saw heavy cuts in 2022 and many lines are still someway behind service levels in 2020 even after this modest increase. There's also no additional leasing of trains. It's using existing stock.

For example the Slade Green rounders mentioned used to run all day every day every 30 mins. Now it's about two in total in the rush hour. It's going up to about four in the rush hour. Still none throughout the majority of the day. The Vic services were every 15 mins as Metro routes serving densely populated areas. Now every 30 mins and will go back to pre-cut levels. Those aren't incredible frequencies.

Also the argument that it's well staffed is simply wrong. Staff shortages on the SouthEastern network have been huge in recent years. No staff often see on busy stations and mass ticket office closures have been the norm. Don't forget that's often in addition to DOO.

The Networkers are clapped out and internally worse than much of Northerns stock.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2024 ==


The long distance lines and areas of Kent get a lot better service and TLC than suburban routes in London and into Dartford.

Indeed. Crazy that at the same time as the Elizabeth Line created lots of extra traffic into Abbey Wood that the Southeastern services serving that station were cut.

 

[Cletus]

Staffing problems even down here today. I wonder why?

Kent trains cancelled due to staffing issues

Southeastern says the handful of cancellations are due to a shortage of available train crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

A number of train services between Kent and London have been cancelled because of a shortage of available crew....

 

[bramling]

Passenger numbers across the network may be approaching the numbers before 2020, but that doesn't mean the patterns of travel are the same as they were then. The move to working from home is very much here to stay, particularly for people who travel further to work. Incremental improvements in timetables are welcome but that should not be without a review that the right services are running.

I’m increasingly unconvinced that working from home is here to stay, much as some people might like to keep telling themselves that as a form of wishful thinking.

There’s someone who lives two doors up from here who was absolutely adamant that he’d never be returning to the office. Funny how last week I passed him on all five days walking to the station at 0700 in the morning! And he’s far from being an edge case.

 

[paul1609]

I’m increasingly unconvinced that working from home is here to stay, much as some people might like to keep telling themselves that as a form of wishful thinking.

There’s someone who lives two doors up from here who was absolutely adamant that he’d never be returning to the office. Funny how last week I passed him on all five days walking to the station at 0700 in the morning! And he’s far from being an edge case.

I think whatever you call it the demand for long distance commuting to London in the southeast has demnished considerably. In Kent and East Sussex once you reach approximately an hour away from the London Terminals demand drops off a cliff. Many stations which previously had multi £ million in season tickets and car parking are now rural backwaters with tumbleweed blowing around the car parks.

 

[Horizon22]

Let's not forget Southeastern had cut routes on the North Kent line just 18-24 months ago, so part of this is replacing these services.

 

[JamesT]

I’m increasingly unconvinced that working from home is here to stay, much as some people might like to keep telling themselves that as a form of wishful thinking.

There’s someone who lives two doors up from here who was absolutely adamant that he’d never be returning to the office. Funny how last week I passed him on all five days walking to the station at 0700 in the morning! And he’s far from being an edge case.

My employer definitely thinks it’s here to stay. They’re trying to reduce space usage so they can stop renting some buildings. There’s no suggestion of redundancies, so it has to be through people being in the office less often.
Purely anecdotally, the people I know that used to commute by train every day are now doing a week or two per month, or switching to a couple of days a week and aiming for off-peak where possible.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Staffing problems even down here today. I wonder why?

Kent trains cancelled due to staffing issues

Southeastern says the handful of cancellations are due to a shortage of available train crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

Precisely why I returned home on an earlier train; I couldn't possibly comment....

 

[Horizon22]

Staffing problems even down here today. I wonder why?

Kent trains cancelled due to staffing issues

Southeastern says the handful of cancellations are due to a shortage of available train crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

I dare you to find any TOC (or any industry relying on overtime) that wouldn't have staffing issues today!

 

[andythebrave]

There used to be ECS workings that used them too. One of my more memorable drives as a trainee was sitting with the speedometer pegged at 100mph between Tonbridge and Ashford to go through the wash road, then onwards to Ramsgate.

Not much cleaning at that speed!

 

[sp503]

My employer definitely thinks it’s here to stay. They’re trying to reduce space usage so they can stop renting some buildings. There’s no suggestion of redundancies, so it has to be through people being in the office less often.
Purely anecdotally, the people I know that used to commute by train every day are now doing a week or two per month, or switching to a couple of days a week and aiming for off-peak where possible.

May I just add that in addition to working from home reducing traffic demand,
COVID has also changed how businesses are done considerably. For example, while a regional manager used to visit the head office in London every now and then for some unimportant meeting, those are largely done online now. And so are regular meetings with clients. This kind of business travel changes not only the demand in commuter services but also in longer distance routes as well.

 

[DarloRich]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clmy41lz1rdo:

Bully for them... How come there is money to employ staff and lease rolling stock for a better service in the SE, when rail is almost unuseable in the North of England because of shockingly bad reliability resulting from staff and rolling stock shortages?
Especially when peak-time services are notoriously financially inefficent (for a provider) due to poor stock and staff utilisation.

sigh not everything in life is a conspiracy or a north/south attack line.

BTW - I have never found rail "almost unusable in the North of England", even with the staff engagement issues that we currently face but what would I know eh?

I’m increasingly unconvinced that working from home is here to stay, much as some people might like to keep telling themselves that as a form of wishful thinking.

I think we are looking at a hybrid approach. 2/3 days in the office, 2/3 days at home. ( Those office days will be Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for many)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I’m increasingly unconvinced that working from home is here to stay, much as some people might like to keep telling themselves that as a form of wishful thinking.

Plenty of businesses I know of have moved to smaller offices that couldn't fit the entire workforce based there at the same time (e.g. 50 desks for 100 staff), and I don't think they'll go back.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Explains the need for 170 drivers in the recent campaign which before this news I couldn't believe it was down to just retirements and general staff turnover.

There will need to be considerably more recruitments needed just as soon as the ASLEF pay claim is resolved satisfactorily. A swathe of more senior drivers will be retiring the service as soon as their arrears are paid

 

[NSEWonderer]

There will need to be considerably more recruitments needed just as soon as the ASLEF pay claim is resolved satisfactorily. A swathe of more senior drivers will be retiring the service as soon as their arrears are paid

Indeed. Quite a few other TOCs too with outstanding pay deals will most likely see the same movement come a decent pay deal, assuming it's backdated sufficiently.

 

[Krokodil]

220 trains a week is virtually nothing in the scheme of things

Indeed, it's some way fewer than the number of trains that a certain operator (beginning with 'N') cancelled on Sunday alone.

Staffing problems even down here today. I wonder why?

Kent trains cancelled due to staffing issues

Southeastern says the handful of cancellations are due to a shortage of available train crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

Six cancellations and two part-cancellations? So trivial, I'm amazed that the BBC found it newsworthy. They also found Chiltern, LNER and GWR's cancellations to be newsworthy. The N operator (with 250+ cancellations) didn't get a mention by the BBC. They must have been aware of it - given that Mediacity is in Manchester - so I'm concluding that "Northern cancellations on Sunday" comes under the same heading as "Pope is Catholic".

BTW - I have never found rail "almost unusable in the North of England", even with the staff engagement issues that we currently face but what would I know eh?

With your username one might presume that you're in the NE rather than NW, and therefore not affected by the Sunday issue. One station was left without a train for nearly five hours. If that doesn't qualify as "unusable" then I don't know what does.

 

[Class15]

With your username one might presume that you're in the NE rather than NW, and therefore not affected by the Sunday issue. One station was left without a train for nearly five hours. If that doesn't qualify as "unusable" then I don't know what does.

May I please know which station this is? There are actually stations in Scotland which are not supposed to have much more of a service than that?

 

[MikeWh]

Explains the need for 170 drivers in the recent campaign which before this news I couldn't believe it was down to just retirements and general staff turnover.

The cuts in 2022 meant that Southeastern rarely had to cancel any trains when ASLEF worked to rule. They were only really affected on strike days.

 

[theageofthetra]

There will need to be considerably more recruitments needed just as soon as the ASLEF pay claim is resolved satisfactorily. A swathe of more senior drivers will be retiring the service as soon as their arrears are paid

Correct, plus loads leaving or have left to earn more money at TFL

 

[DarloRich]

With your username one might presume that you're in the NE rather than NW, and therefore not affected by the Sunday issue. One station was left without a train for nearly five hours. If that doesn't qualify as "unusable" then I don't know what does.

that is my point. The service is entirely usable in much of the north. There is clearly a harmonisation issue with terms and conditions leading to problems in one section of the northern franchise.

 

[Krokodil]

that is my point. The service is entirely usable in much of the north. There is clearly a harmonisation issue with terms and conditions leading to problems in one section of the northern franchise.

"One section"? That makes it sound like just a couple of depots. Bit of an understated way to describe half of the operation.

 

[DarloRich]

"One section"? That makes it sound like just a couple of depots. Bit of an understated way to describe half of the operation.

whatever. The service is entirely usable in much of the "north". It is certainly usable in the best bit!

EDIT - it is clear that the Northern service in the north west DOESNT WORK. However, the north west does not equal the north nor is the entire train service in the "north" unusable. For instance, I am able to travel easily, almost every Sunday, from Leeds to Manchester. That seems quite Northern to me....................

 

[Geogregor]

Perhaps rush hour should be treated differently to pre-covid but I am of the opinion that for off-peak and weekend services at least, it would be a sensible target. Using the Penge East line as an example, aiming for 2tph to Blackfriars all the way through the peak probably isn’t reasonable, but aiming to restore the pre-covid turn-up-and-go service certainly is. As you said yourself travel
patterns have changed and we should be focusing on catering for leisure travellers

Absolutely. 2tph frequency in densely populated inners suburbs of London was a joke, 4tph should have been restored a while ago. It was always more important than some peak trains to Blackfriars, especially in the new world of less pronounced peaks.

In fact I would do something about Sunday service. Services mid-day can be rammed, more than during the week. But that's a whole can of worms...

 

[ScotGG]

Why is the 'pre-Covid timetable' always seen as the aim? Passenger flows have changed for good, revenue has diminished, and a recast which actually reflects the new patterns of demand may give a better timetable than operated 'pre-Covid' .

We always hear some saying this yet TFL have got back to pre covid passenger journeys (and often above) on London Overground rail routes as they have maintained pre covid levels of service. Flows and revenue havn't changed for good. In fact TfL doing well with rail revenue from LO.

Meanwhile DaFT have insisted on cuts within London on TOCs with some routes having an axe taken to them and they're lagging way behind. Is it less demand or the cuts have made it not worth using? And thus road congestion keeps rising...