Rail firm to add 220 trains a week from December

[AndrewE]

We always hear some saying this yet TFL have got back to pre covid passenger journeys (and often above) on London Overground rail routes as they have maintained pre covid levels of service. Flows and revenue havn't changed for good. In fact TfL doing well with rail revenue from LO.

Meanwhile DaFT have insisted on cuts within London on TOCs with some routes having an axe taken to them and they're lagging way behind. Is it less demand or the cuts have made it not worth using? And thus road congestion keeps rising...

DaFT need reminding of the UK government's obligations under the international treaties they have signed... without modal change (let alone pushing people off trains by various maneouvres) they won't be helping to reduce our carbon footprint!

 

[jh64]

For instance, I am able to travel easily, almost every Sunday, from Leeds to Manchester. That seems quite Northern to me....................

Anything below Scotch Corner is the midlands.

 

[Bikeman78]

Because that allows actual growth in passengers. If we keep services cut we get stuck in a negative feedback loop of woeful service leading to woeful usage and so on. Is it a coincidence that TfL services have more or less recovered their pre-covid passenger numbers while TOCs like SWR and Southern struggle far behind?

Some routes are still poor off peak, e.g. Victoria to Selhurst every 30 minutes. Wasn't that quarter hourly in 2019? In the Connex era, it was every 10 minutes. Are there really only a third of the passengers compared with 25 years ago?

There used to be ECS workings that used them too. One of my more memorable drives as a trainee was sitting with the speedometer pegged at 100mph between Tonbridge and Ashford to go through the wash road, then onwards to Ramsgate.

In the last years of the slam doors, there was a non stop train every half hour. Great fun, full power, motors screaming.

 

[PGAT]

Some routes are still poor off peak, e.g. Victoria to Selhurst every 30 minutes. Wasn't that quarter hourly in 2019? In the Connex era, it was every 10 minutes. Are there really only a third of the passengers compared with 25 years ago?

According to the earliest data I can find (2004/05) Selhurst got 740k annual passengers, which is less than the latest 2022/23 figures which put it just under a million. Same trend applies at other stations along the line. Southeastern are definitely ahead with their metro services

 

[4BEP]

Will this mean the restoration of 2tph between Ashford and Victoria (via Maidstone East) all day and at weekends? Oh dear maybe not....

No, more Ashford - Charing Cross services via Maidstone East though.

 

[yorksrob]

On the plus side, one will have three options an hour from Charing Cross to Ashford.

Come to think of it, it's been a few years since I've used the down Chiselhurst loop so maybe now's my chance !

 

[NSEWonderer]

Have they restored yet the Sidcup line connection via Woolwich and Abbey-Wood in the December Timetable? Was an absolute Travesty when removed not least the Direct Charing Cross Service.

 

[PGAT]

Have they restored yet the Sidcup line connection via Woolwich and Abbey-Wood in the December Timetable? Was an absolute Travesty when removed not least the Direct Charing Cross Service.

It’s always existed in the peak hours. The December timetable will add 12 more services but nowhere near enough for full off-peak service

 

[NSEWonderer]

It’s always existed in the peak hours. The December timetable will add 12 more services but nowhere near enough for full off-peak service

Ah I see

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The new govt wants to be seen to improving things so wont tolerate service increases that are predicated on more ot or RDW. No idea of SE position but won't be surprised to see service cut backs rather than increases to match rosterable resources so there are no negatives on p coding on many operators although SE feel in better shape than many.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

The new govt wants to be seen to improving things so wont tolerate service increases that are predicated on more ot or RDW. No idea of SE position but won't be surprised to see service cut backs rather than increases to match rosterable resources so there are no negatives on p coding on many operators although SE feel in better shape than many.

Southeastern are fine for train crew though. Have a look on a day to day and find how many trains are cancelled due to shortage of train vew. Pretty certain its 0 everyday or close to that. Certainly won't be any cutbacks for Southeastern or any TOC I suspect unless they are in truly dire straits which I don't believe any toc is currently.

 

[43066]

On the plus side, one will have three options an hour from Charing Cross to Ashford.

Come to think of it, it's been a few years since I've used the down Chiselhurst loop so maybe now's my chance !

Those do sometimes conflict with the up and down stoppers at Chislehurst (I know this because I’m frequently on the platform waiting for them when the Maidstone east service crosses from the down fast !).

The new govt wants to be seen to improving things so wont tolerate service increases that are predicated on more ot or RDW.

Has that been officially stated?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Southeastern are fine for train crew though. Have a look on a day to day and find how many trains are cancelled due to shortage of train vew. Pretty certain its 0 everyday or close to that. Certainly won't be any cutbacks for Southeastern or any TOC I suspect unless they are in truly dire straits which I don't believe any toc is currently.

Agree and as I said SE look in far better shape than many other operators who are plagued with resourcing issues especially at weekends. I would suggest Scotrails actions on service cutbacks recently are close enough to dire straits.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Southeastern are fine for train crew though. Have a look on a day to day and find how many trains are cancelled due to shortage of train vew. Pretty certain its 0 everyday or close to that. Certainly won't be any cutbacks for Southeastern or any TOC I suspect unless they are in truly dire straits which I don't believe any toc is currently.

Pretty sure that's because the service is heavily cut from what it used to be which is what is allowing them to cope well compared to what it would have been.

 

[yorksrob]

Those do sometimes conflict with the up and down stoppers at Chislehurst (I know this because I’m frequently on the platform waiting for them when the Maidstone east service crosses from the down fast !).

Is the up Chiselhurst loop reversible ? I would have thought that would be an easier route if it were - fast Charing Cross lines at Chiselhurst to Maidstone lines at St Mary Cray.

Agree and as I said SE look in far better shape than many other operators who are plagued with resourcing issues especially at weekends. I would suggest Scotrails actions on service cutbacks recently are close enough to dire straits.

They always turn in a good, reliable service when I'm down that way. Helps to have so many diversionary routes.

 

[theageofthetra]

Southeastern are fine for train crew though. Have a look on a day to day and find how many trains are cancelled due to shortage of train vew. Pretty certain its 0 everyday or close to that. Certainly won't be any cutbacks for Southeastern or any TOC I suspect unless they are in truly dire straits which I don't believe any toc is currently.

Wait until the paydeal and backdated pay gets paid. Loads will retire or leave

 

[Doomotron]

True - there would be less incentive for people to stump up the HS1 premium !

That said, wasn't this an ambition before the franchise system disappeared up its own behind ?



That's good to know !

The new franchise that was supposed to replace Southeastern which was cancelled was meant to include fast trains between Ashford and Tonbridge, effectively a revival of the express Charing Cross services. I did contact Southeastern a few years ago about it (although the context of the email was generally about the lack of trains between Dover and Ramsgate), and this is what they said:

"In terms of the running of four trains per hour between Ashford and Charing Cross as part of our franchise, I raised this with our Train Planning team for further clarification. They have advised that there are no plans to introduce four trains per hour between Charing Cross and Ashford. This scheme was in the original Invitation to Tender for the now defunct Southeastern franchise competition."

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Is the up Chiselhurst loop reversible ? I would have thought that would be an easier route if it were - fast Charing Cross lines at Chiselhurst to Maidstone lines at St Mary Cray.



They always turn in a good, reliable service when I'm down that way. Helps to have so many diversionary routes.

No its not. Only the down loop is.

 

[yorksrob]

No its not. Only the down loop is.

Ah, hence the crossing other lines.

Maybe one for the next re-signalling !