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It’s an entirely fair and proportionate offer by my reckoning. UK inflation 2020 - 2024 (the period which we’ve not had a pay rise) stands at 23%.
I’m 100% going to vote yes to this offer, but for the benefit of anyone’s doubt or issue with this offer, it’s still a below inflation offer (I’m honestly not being critical of the offer, just honest assessment).
A much needed cessation of hostilities for paying passengers in particular.
DfT now under immense pressure. A huge cloud over the running disputes lifted. Less wriggle room for TOCs and DfT to blame striking & overtime resistant staff for creating cancellations and punctuality problems.
We’re about to see what the railways are really made of now!
What Im not sure about is the rates of the deductions to be applied; whether its within each year or all from this year. It will take some working out!!
Hence my suggestion to another poster to speak with your union rep and/or the payroll department since everyone's circumstances are different and the tax implications of getting bad advice from 'someone on the Internet' could be quite significant.
Well considering drivers aren’t paid by the government/taxpayer, and this will allow the railway to return to regular running, I’d say it will actually make money, given productivity should increase, both for commuters and railway workers.
Even though I work on board and have a reasonable understanding of what goes on, can someone explain to me how this isn’t being paid by the taxpayer? Back in the days of franchises, yes - I get it - as the TOC’s were responsible for everything - including salaries. Nowadays they’re all management contracts where the TOC’s get a set fee and the government collect the fares and take the financial risk…. So surely when the DfT are now making the pay offers rather than the TOC’s - surely the government are paying for it? DfT = Government.
Maybe simplistic but if I’m wrong I’d love for someone to explain it.
Either way, quite a result for the drivers - well deserved and quite frankly if you vote no to this no-strings deal then you require sectioning
This isn't the end, it's just the start of Aslef holding the country to ransom, again. Give it 2 years, max, and they'll be back on strike. It wouldn't be too bad if it resulted in some modernisation of working practices. I don't begrudge backdated pay rises, but it's a big increase for the well paid.
This isn't the end, it's just the start of Aslef holding the country to ransom, again. Give it 2 years, max, and they'll be back on strike. It wouldn't be too bad if it resulted in some modernisation of working practices. I don't begrudge backdated pay rises, but it's a big increase for the well paid.
Give your head a wobble, what complete nonsense, this was the first national strike in 30 years, prior to 2019 pay deals regularly had productivity elements to them.
Your last point, it wouldn't have come to this if wasn't the political ideology of the previous government.
This isn't the end, it's just the start of Aslef holding the country to ransom, again. Give it 2 years, max, and they'll be back on strike. It wouldn't be too bad if it resulted in some modernisation of working practices. I don't begrudge backdated pay rises, but it's a big increase for the well paid.
"Back on strike" apart from these strikes, which were provoked by the Conservative government being unwilling to sit down with ASLEF (despite resolving similar disputes with RMR Guards and Signallers) when were the last ASLEF initiated strikes?
Hence my suggestion to another poster to speak with your union rep and/or the payroll department since everyone's circumstances are different and the tax implications of getting bad advice from 'someone on the Internet' could be quite significant.
Nobody is suggesting anyone use such figures to make any plans or calculate taxes from ‘someone on the internet’, it’s just interesting to know how it will be calculated, the devil is in the detail and we will all find out soon enough.
Most TOCs haven’t changed drivers salaries since 2019. So over 5 years.
I’m curious as to how you feel this is a ‘bad deal for the taxpayer’ if we’re doing the same duties?
Every worker in the UK has a right to afford the same things today as they did when they initially took their job; irrespective of how long ago it was.
The reason this dispute went on for so long, was because we hadn’t been afforded a pay review due to reasons relating to Covid, and then when talks were carried out; the government insisted on mediation, and as such, a below inflation offer was made as well as changes to our hard fought terms and conditions (put in place over decades of fatal incidents) which would have left the entire industry less safe for everyone, and the workers unable to have a say in any work reforms in the future, as well as giving up our weekends.
I think you should re read what I said.
In line with inflation is 100% deserved, and whilst I think that wages for everyone should increase in line with inflation across all industries it is not a “right”.
And yes the taxpayer doesn’t pay you. As a taxpayer I don’t send a bill every month to a railway worker. What I do is pay taxes part of which goes towards the railway. An above inflation pay rise must be paid for by someone.
On the terms of contract I agree and glad that these have been successfully defended.
Finally if someone offers the exact same services in real terms why should their wages continue to go up and up and up (beyond the rate of inflation)? Again this is for any industry not just the railway
Even though I work on board and have a reasonable understanding of what goes on, can someone explain to me how this isn’t being paid by the taxpayer? Back in the days of franchises, yes - I get it - as the TOC’s were responsible for everything - including salaries. Nowadays they’re all management contracts where the TOC’s get a set fee and the government collect the fares and take the financial risk…. So surely when the DfT are now making the pay offers rather than the TOC’s - surely the government are paying for it? DfT = Government.
Maybe simplistic but if I’m wrong I’d love for someone to explain it.
Either way, quite a result for the drivers - well deserved and quite frankly if you vote no to this no-strings deal then you require sectioning
The DfT pay the TOCs a management fee for fulfilling their contracts ie., running trains in accordance with the timetable. That’s a super simplistic view.
Once the fee is paid to the TOC, the TOC can to some extent, spend the money as they wish. Pay staff, shareholder divs, expand the MD remuneration package .
The TOCs staff salaries are therefore paid by a private company ie., the TOC
The operating fee is paid by the DfT (government). It could be argued, the source of the staff salaries is the DfT.
But it’s more complicated. Some of the DfT’s budget is indicative of passenger ticket revenue, private investment and tax subsidy.
If you want to split hairs, non OLRs are paid by the TOCs. But the TOCs now get their money from the DfT management fees.
The back is broken of the main dispute so hopefully these will all get sorted very shortly. I’m hearing XC drivers are getting the Avanti £600 RDW offer.
I think you should re read what I said.
In line with inflation is 100% deserved, and whilst I think that wages for everyone should increase in line with inflation across all industries it is not a “right”.
And yes the taxpayer doesn’t pay you. As a taxpayer I don’t send a bill every month to a railway worker. What I do is pay taxes part of which goes towards the railway. An above inflation pay rise must be paid for by someone.
On the terms of contract I agree and glad that these have been successfully defended.
Finally if someone offers the exact same services in real terms why should their wages continue to go up and up and up (beyond the rate of inflation)? Again this is for any industry not just the railway
As a worker, you have every right to demand a pay rise in line with inflation from your employer.
Even more so if it is stipulated in contract to have a pay review periodically.
Drivers are paid by private companies which have given their directors tens of percent increases in wages, year on year… paid millions in shareholder dividends, year on year and under-invested in the infrastructure, year on year.
As an employee, I’d be miffed to watch the directors systematically mismanage and pay themselves fat cheques and bonuses despite running a shoddy service plagued with cancellations and late running trains, growing more and more out of touch with the people who bear the brunt of the work and who carry the responsibility of operations and public facing.
Weaponised incompetence or daylight robbery… I don’t know.
And if my cost of living is going up, why shouldn’t my wages do so commensurately?
You wouldn’t sell a house for the same price or less than you bought it for if it’s worth more, would you?
Same goes for labour, and the price of labour is driven by the cost of living. If it wasn’t, none of us would need to work.
If and when the RMT and Network Rail agree to a pay raise and settle the pay disputes, would the increase in pay be applicable for someone joining this year lets say in September ?
As a driver who recently moved TOCs, I am pleased that this deal will include back pay for leavers.
There are negotiations to be done in the future. The employers want certain things such as rostering flexibility and the unions also want to achieve certain things for members such as re safeguarding travel facilities. That will come with professional negotiation in the years to follow I am sure of it.
For now, I think this offer is very fair and balanced. I will be voting to accept it as will the majority of drivers. I suspect some won't, but I remain confident that these will be in the minority.
Can anyone tell me how backpay is calculated? Say you're on 55k and it rises to 65k....is that simply 10k backpay but taxed? Never been in this kind of situation so it's all new to me!
Under PAYE tax rules, tax and NI is applied to the payslip where any backpay or bonus or adjustment is made. So if you had £10000 of various adjustments added that would be treated as part of this months taxable amount. It is not added to previous tax years even if back pay.
HMRC doesn't care about what the amount is made up of (split of basic, overtime, bonuses, adjustments etc), just the total for the month is used for the tax calc.
Unless your union rep is authorised to give tax advice (normally they aren't, unless they have done tax exams), you need to consider your own position. Common ones are child benefit clawback if your total for year will be over £60,000 (consider topping up pension as that reduces taxable income and if you have children and are in clawback taper might lose 50%, 60% or more depending on number of children). Similarly if you have a student loan probably lose 9% of it as repayment (but if total pay for year is below certain amount can claim this single month back at end of year)
Look at respected websites like Martin Lewis moneysaving or speak to an IFA (independent financial advisor) rather than taking the word of old Sid down the pub. Even the UK Gov website has calculators of what effects are of extra income. Don't need to panic yet, just make sure any extra pension contributions etc are done by end of March so fall in same tax year so can be offset.
HMRC's self assessment online form does all the work and runs the calculations for you, its even possible to check the effect on net pay, just enter the projected amounts, save it and let it calculate it (Do Not hit submit button though whilst it has dummy figures in it). Can then edit the figures and try out different scenarios to see effect on your own tax. Just remember to put final amounts after getting end of year P60 in May 2025 and only then submit it.
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That doesn't necessarily mean it will be paid automatically though. Particularly for people who left some time ago, the company will need to confirm things like bank details are still correct, so I expect it will be a manual process.
Even though I work on board and have a reasonable understanding of what goes on, can someone explain to me how this isn’t being paid by the taxpayer? Back in the days of franchises, yes - I get it - as the TOC’s were responsible for everything - including salaries. Nowadays they’re all management contracts where the TOC’s get a set fee and the government collect the fares and take the financial risk…. So surely when the DfT are now making the pay offers rather than the TOC’s - surely the government are paying for it? DfT = Government.
Maybe simplistic but if I’m wrong I’d love for someone to explain it.
Either way, quite a result for the drivers - well deserved and quite frankly if you vote no to this no-strings deal then you require sectioning
It is 100% paid for by the government, yes. I think people are resistant to the semantics of it being funded entirely by “subsidies” because there is of course also the money coming from farebox and ancillary revenue.
Since the end of franchise contracts in 2020 all revenue and cost risk have been borne by the government, as you rightly point out!
The media is describing it as a 14.25% increase. This is the arithmetic sum of the three tears' increases - 5.0%, 4.75% and 4.5% - but if these increases had been applied sequentially each year, the increase would have been compounded and the result is just over 14.9%.
I wonder which is correct. But maybe, unlike most of the media, it's just that I'm numerate...
It’s an entirely fair and proportionate offer by my reckoning. UK inflation 2020 - 2024 (the period which we’ve not had a pay rise) stands at 23%.
I’m 100% going to vote yes to this offer, but for the benefit of anyone’s doubt or issue with this offer, it’s still a below inflation offer (I’m honestly not being critical of the offer, just honest assessment).
A much needed cessation of hostilities for paying passengers in particular.
DfT now under immense pressure. A huge cloud over the running disputes lifted. Less wriggle room for TOCs and DfT to blame striking & overtime resistant staff for creating cancellations and punctuality problems.
We’re about to see what the railways are really made of now!
This from the DfT over how much revenue the industry has lost over strike action (there is also external impact on other industries and hospitality has been the most vocal about the impact).
According to analysis produced by GBRTT, direct industry passenger revenue foregone from national strike days across rail trade unions has totalled around £850 million in nominal prices since industrial action commenced in June 2022.
This analysis is based on data for all mainline train operating companies (TOCs) operating passenger services in Great Britain.
So plenty to go after and hopefully DfT will also now sanction RDW payments to ensure the timetable is being run reliably day in day out so this revenue is captured.
The media is describing it as a 14.25% increase. This is the arithmetic sum of the three tears' increases - 5.0%, 4.75% and 4.5% - but if these increases had been applied sequentially each year, the increase would have been compounded and the result is just over 14.9%.
I wonder which is correct. But maybe, unlike most of the media, it's just that I'm numerate...
If the money for prior year awards is being paid as a lump sum, this will leave drivers flush with cash, for a while, and perhaps less inclined to work overtime/rest days for a few weeks, as is their right. I’m interested to see what contingency plan is in place to deal with this.
A large number of drivers at the worst-affected operators and depots are already working no overtime. Given it can't go below zero I don't think those ones will be in too much trouble.
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I'm unhappy at the current shambolicness of Scotrails service provision. Which I may well have misunderstood as being part of a pay strike. Which is why I was unhappy this deal only applied to England. My mistake if that's the case.
EDIT - Tbh, I have no idea what the problem is with Scotrail right now.
Think of it this way. ScotRail & Cal Sleeper were in a better position than the DfT operators because they had settled for previous years. Now the DfT operators will be in a better position because they have settled the current year, which ScotRail & Cal Sleeper have not.
The media is describing it as a 14.25% increase. This is the arithmetic sum of the three tears' increases - 5.0%, 4.75% and 4.5% - but if these increases had been applied sequentially each year, the increase would have been compounded and the result is just over 14.9%.
I wonder which is correct. But maybe, unlike most of the media, it's just that I'm numerate...
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