ASLEF - LNER drivers to strike every Sat & Sun for 3 months from 31 Aug - Now called off

[Goldfish62]

Interesting article in the Guardian yesterday, particularly this quote from an ASLEF official :

A source close to the discussions said: “We totally ****ed up by announcing the strike action in the same week and it’s stupidity of the highest order. The LNER is an entirely separate dispute, but the announcement has now totally conflated the two issues. We were expecting the strike action to be announced at least four weeks after the pay deal was reached.”

The rest of the article is interesting in itself:

Former Tory rail minister says he understands Labour deal with unions

Huw Merriman calls for end to ‘demonisation’ of train drivers and apologises for failing to bring reforms

www.theguardian.com

I don't actually believe the timing of the strike announcement was an act of stupidity. It was pretty obvious what the impact would be. Seems to me it was a deliberate act by the leadership to embarrass the government, which they've dove very successfully. With friends like that who needs enemies?! Have they learned nothing from the 1970s?

 

[Magdalia]

I should have said:

“Generally (but not universally) the railway does employ enough staff to cover all the shifts, with spare cover as well, based on agreed assumptions about the levels of absence, levels of training, and company and/or local agreements about rostering and cover for annual leave, bank holidays, weekends, etc.

Those general assumptions do appear to have been generally wrong for a very, very long time, though!

All business critical assumptions should be checked regularly and frequently to confirm that they still apply.

For example, I know of more than one TOC where absence has doubled compared to historical norms pre Covid. After trying for some time to manage it back down, at least one of them has bitten the bullet and started to recruit, accepting that absence rates are going to remain higher beyond the short term.

Increases in sickness absence could and should have been foreseen. It is only necessary to pay attention to the NHS waiting list statistics to see that.

NHS waiting lists hit record high in England

The latest data shows 7.47 million people are waiting for routine hospital treatment.

www.bbc.co.uk

A record 7.47 million people are waiting to start routine hospital treatment, NHS figures, external for the end of May show - up from 7.42 million the previous month.

This is the highest number since records began for the NHS in England, in 2007.

In the particular case of traincrew, shiftwork is an inherently unhealthy lifestyle because of the disruption to sleeping and eating patterns. The nature of the work also leads lots of traincrew onto a diet dominated by ultra-processed food. I'd guess that traincrew are more likely to be on an NHS waiting list than the population generally because of this.

Other TOCs are recruiting hard to deal with anricipated leavers.

Demographic trends, particularly retirements, can be foreseen when they are many years away. If the demographic profile of traincrew is anywhere close to the profile for the UK as a whole, as shown in the 2021 census, then recruitment will have to run faster just to stand still, and this should have been obvious for some time.

training requirements which have historically always been willingly accepted by the union as being dealt with by rest days.

I have already commented elsewhere about the Covid pandemic leading to lots of people reassessing work life balance. Another factor here is the freeze on income tax personal allowances. There is much less financial incentive to work a rest day when the money earned is going to be taxed at 40%. The impact of these on traincrew making themselves available for rest day working could and should have been foreseen.

 

[Krokodil]

Increases in sickness absence could and should have been foreseen. It is only necessary to pay attention to the NHS waiting list statistics to see that.

Yes, I've known someone forced to go abroad for an op, because private healthcare in the UK would have been unaffordable and they would have been waiting so long on the NHS that they'd have lost their job.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Should the cost of employing extra staff fall onto the taxpayer or passenger?

The taxpayer and the passenger are both just as outraged as short-staffing causes delays and cancellations of services.
Except in this case, you’re opposing safe staffing numbers…

 

[dk1]

Been thirty odd years since I've seen a driver on the 'panel' pretty much always guards that fill in nowadays.

Yes, all three ‘panel’ at my depot are guards that cover. I think I was one of the last drivers to do that job and that was over 20 years ago when I was a depot driver and did it for the guaranteed HGD.

 

[Falcon1200]

It's exactly what airlines do.

And of course the airlines are renowned for never cancelling or delaying flights!

Unfortunately, during my time and roles on the railway, the pressure was always on to reduce headcount (a reason I retired in 2016) and employing extra staff, 'just in case', in what was not always viewed by senior management as an essential function was a non-starter.

 

[Bald Rick]

Increases in sickness absence could and should have been foreseen.

I think that‘s somewhat optimistic.

There is much less financial incentive to work a rest day when the money earned is going to be taxed at 40%.

Most (but not all) drivers have been in the 40% tax band for a long while. We’re now at the point that many will be taxed at a marginal rate of 60% above a typical number of rest days, and yes that will have an effect.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes, I've known someone forced to go abroad for an op, because private healthcare in the UK would have been unaffordable and they would have been waiting so long on the NHS that they'd have lost their job.

And some people wonder why the number of people claiming of sickness benefits has been increasingly significantly in recent years. Could it possibly be that more people waiting longer for treatment mean more people losing jobs (or giving them up, or not getting into work in the first place) due to their ill health? No, they must surely be scrounging wastrels! We must continue to demonise and beat them with sticks until the situation improves!

 

[pitdiver]

Someone up thread mentioned getting some sort of financial reward for being called at home on a rest day. When I worked on LUL back in the early 80s we would get 2 hours "Disturbance Allowance" if called at home,
However that went down the pan with Company Plan.

 

[Mawkie]

Demographic trends, particularly retirements, can be foreseen when they are many years away.

It's not as simple as you seem to think. I remember a time where a driver at my depot did a pension forecast, and when it came back favourable, told everyone else in the depot - who also did their own forecasts and 7 drivers handed their notice in within a week. It takes many many months to train drivers (and that's not including the recruitment process). So it made for interesting times trying to find coverage - especially as the "little railway" I work on doesn't permit voluntary overtime.

There are many other situations that prevent predictability in retirement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And of course the airlines are renowned for never cancelling or delaying flights!

Airlines are generally a lot more reliable (in terms of not cancelling) than the railway is at the moment. They're less punctual, but that's largely because there are far more variables and it doesn't take much to cause a major delay.

 

[Magdalia]

It's not as simple as you seem to think. I remember a time where a driver at my depot did a pension forecast, and when it came back favourable, told everyone else in the depot - who also did their own forecasts and 7 drivers handed their notice in within a week. It takes many many months to train drivers (and that's not including the recruitment process). So it made for interesting times trying to find coverage - especially as the "little railway" I work on doesn't permit voluntary overtime.

There are many other situations that prevent predictability in retirement.

I never said it was simple. But every employer knows the age of all their employees, and age is still the most important factor in retirement.

I agree that retirement is more flexible than it used to be, but in your example, the employer will know exactly how many employees will be in the age group that entitles them to take their pension, even if they don't know when exactly they will decide to do so.

 

[mpthomson]

Staff liable to be called at home should be receiving a call allowance as standard.

The NHS would burn its way through far more money if that was the case...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==

Interesting article in the Guardian yesterday, particularly this quote from an ASLEF official :

The rest of the article is interesting in itself:

Former Tory rail minister says he understands Labour deal with unions

Huw Merriman calls for end to ‘demonisation’ of train drivers and apologises for failing to bring reforms

www.theguardian.com

I don't actually believe the timing of the strike announcement was an act of stupidity. It was pretty obvious what the impact would be. Seems to me it was a deliberate act by the leadership to embarrass the government, which they've dove very successfully. With friends like that who needs enemies?! Have they learned nothing from the 1970s?

As I've said previously I do think it was someone getting a bit over-excited after the success of the previous day and going off prematurely, so a fit of hubris rather than anything else. Whatever it's made any further negotiations with the government harder than they need to be

 

[Moonshot]

The taxpayer and the passenger are both just as outraged as short-staffing causes delays and cancellations of services.
Except in this case, you’re opposing safe staffing numbers…

That wasn't what I asked

 

[74A]

This dispute boils down to the fact ASLEF want to dictate when a train can be run.

In most TOCs if a driver is not available then the train is cancelled. Even if there is a driver manager available then ASLEF want that train cancelled.

LNER are trying to run the service for the benefit of the passenger not the union.

 

[yorksrob]

LNER are trying to run the service for the benefit of the passenger not the union.

Their fares trial suggests otherwise.

 

[ainsworth74]

This dispute boils down to the fact ASLEF want to dictate when a train can be run.

How do you work that one out? Sounds rather more like it's managers making drivers feel pressured to work when they're not contracted to do so. Amongst other things. The excellent post by @TreacleMiller refers.

 

[74A]

How do you work that one out? Sounds rather more like it's managers making drivers feel pressured to work when they're not contracted to do so. Amongst other things. The excellent post by @TreacleMiller refers.

Because they don't want driver managers to drive trains. That's pretty clear. So they want the train to be cancelled.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Because they don't want driver managers to drive trains. That's pretty clear. So they want the train to be cancelled.

I can't speak for anyone other than me but I want managers (who do an important job) to be actually doing that job. That involves training, their assessment duties and day to day management tasks. They shouldn't be hindering those duties to drive trains.

 

[66701GBRF]

I can't speak for anyone other than me but I want managers (who do an important job) to be actually doing that job. That involves training, their assessment duties and day to day management tasks. They shouldn't be hindering those duties to drive trains.

That's fine in a perfect world, but in the real world would you prefer services are cancelled instead? I've said in previous posts how it's not the driver's concern if they are rest day not available and the manager needs to find cover, but equally it's not the driver's concern how the manager manages or juggles their remaining duties and tasks.

 

[Krokodil]

This dispute boils down to the fact ASLEF want to dictate when a train can be run.

No it doesn't.

LNER are trying to run the service for the benefit of the passenger not the union.

LNER are trying to run the service for the benefit of the DfT and the now ex-government. That's why they have implemented a number of policies either geared towards improving short-term performance (at the expense of long-term) or fleecing passengers.

 

[renegademaster]

Are LNER allowed to be petty and drop the pay offer unless they end this dispute too?

 

[Krokodil]

That's fine in a perfect world, but in the real world would you prefer services are cancelled instead? I've said in previous posts how it's not the driver's concern if they are rest day not available and the manager needs to find cover, but equally it's not the driver's concern how the manager manages or juggles their remaining duties and tasks.

Today's postponed paperwork is tomorrow's cancellation.

 

[TreacleMiller]

That's fine in a perfect world, but in the real world would you prefer services are cancelled instead? I've said in previous posts how it's not the driver's concern if they are rest day not available and the manager needs to find cover, but equally it's not the driver's concern how the manager manages or juggles their remaining duties and tasks.

In the real world, there haven't really been instances of the practices that are currently being used which has deliberately prolonged and provoked industrial action.

It's very much "our" concern when the only reason a manager is out driving a particular service is because there is a driver within the depot awaiting competence to be completed. Or when they are move start times and training to suit lucrative overtime payments. Or when hidden rules are potentially being broken.

If you go to your workplace tomorrow and find someone else doing your job for more money than you, whilst also being paid to do their own job which they may not be doing in full you'd probably be pretty annoyed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==

Today's postponed paperwork is tomorrow's cancellation.

Exactly. Beautifully put.

 

[Krokodil]

And the same goes for Avanti postponing training to make the ex-government look good. Just makes problems build up.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are LNER allowed to be petty and drop the pay offer unless they end this dispute too?

I don't think so... it's a completely separate dispute, so blocking the pay rise unless this dispute is ended is probably a good way of triggering an all out strike ballot...

 

[Starmill]

Are LNER allowed to be petty and drop the pay offer unless they end this dispute too?

They've made the pay offer at the instruction of the Department along with the 13 other companies. It isn't going to be rescinded unless it's formally not accepted.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Airlines are generally a lot more reliable (in terms of not cancelling) than the railway is at the moment. They're less punctual, but that's largely because there are far more variables and it doesn't take much to cause a major delay.

Air travel does have its nightmares at times (power failures, IT gone wrong, ATC strikes, severe weather etc).
But individual cancellations on an average day are rare and you have rerouting/assistance rights.
I did once have an "crew out of hours" delay, which cost us a day's holiday, but that's rare.
We make much fun of the railway reasons for delay/cancellation, but airlines are more likely to be evasive and give non-reasons*, knowing that passengers can't easily check for accuracy.
Luckily Flighradar24 and similar can tell you what's going on these days, like RTT can on the railway.

In the distant past airlines like BA habitually ran "combined flights", meaning one of a pair was cancelled so you had to wait for the second.
That meant usually that there were not enough passengers to fill one flight, let alone two, and the cancellation was probably a commercial decision.
Dynamic pricing means that doesn't happen any more.


* like "late arrival of the incoming aircraft".

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I am pleased that Merriman and an ASLEF representative have admitted that mistakes were made. I think healing can begin when mistakes are admitted.

 

[66701GBRF]

In the real world, there haven't really been instances of the practices that are currently being used which has deliberately prolonged and provoked industrial action.

It's very much "our" concern when the only reason a manager is out driving a particular service is because there is a driver within the depot awaiting competence to be completed. Or when they are move start times and training to suit lucrative overtime payments. Or when hidden rules are potentially being broken.

If you go to your workplace tomorrow and find someone else doing your job for more money than you, whilst also being paid to do their own job which they may not be doing in full you'd probably be pretty annoyed.

If there is a driver that is siting around because they are out of competence then that points towards a more fundamental failure. As for people getting paid more to do the same job or moving training or start times, personally I don't really concern myself with that sort of stuff.