Different jobs command a different salary to each other. More on this shocking revelation at 10...
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End in sight for the ASLEF dispute: Offer now made
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theageofthetra
On Moderation
Was it confirmed in today's ASLEF webinar if London weighting was included in the pay award?
12LDA28C
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If it's a one-off annual payment I would doubt it. It's the base salary that is subject to the proposed increase, not any allowances on top such as London weighting.
Turtle
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Median annual average UK pay to July 2924 is £28,752 according to ONS - unless I've misread something.
SouthStand
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You’ve certainly misread the date
Merle Haggard
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Another interesting statistic would be the proportion of the population earning more than the median pay of drivers.
SouthStand
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No wonder the public are fuming, £60k and still they want to strike! The sooner we get automatic train operation the better
12LDA28C
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This is satire, right? Looks like you're two years behind everyone else with that comment too.
Turtle
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And the rate of inflation!
And the rate of inflation!
No rate of pay makes bullying OK.
Unstaffed trains aren't coming to any mainline near you.
father_jack
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No- the newspapers you read and I use to line my food waste bin are fuming, I think the public think differently.
InkyScrolls
On Moderation
You seem rather ill informed - I'm going to guess you've just finished today's Mail?
It includes salary based allowances, so yes it will be.
12LDA28C
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If an allowance is based on a percentage of salary then yes. If it is a fixed amount, not directly based on salary then I would say not.
Yes indeed, although I’ve only ever known London weighting to be calculated as a proportion of base salary.
SouthStand
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I don’t read newspapers. Perhaps the £60K was missing a plus sign at the end. The public are fed up of train strikes without doubt.
As for driverless trains, it might be after my lifetime but they’re definitely coming.
TreacleMiller
Member
Computer controlled with a "hands ready" driver would be about 5/10 years away based off the demonstration I've been involved with in a past life. That's with a signaling system that's able to do it and there isn't one in the UK (or one coming) that can.
You could argue AI could physically replace a driver and run that way, using cameras and GPS. I suspect the refit for that will be several billion for the rolling stock to be converted to work in such a way and the relevant legislation passed. Good luck with that.
That all being said, thank you for making the "It's a short career" argument for us. How much are footballers on again?
Isn't that how the Thameslink core is supposed to operate? Obviously quite a different environment to the wider railway where I agree it's years and years away and with a lot of £££ attached!
EC54
Member
I think you will find it would be in your great grand childrens lifetime then again the current billions it would cost would be nearer a trillion, so we can prob forget that as well.
Depending on how you slice it (really it needs further weighting for the defined benefit pension of a generosity now available to very few other professions, but ignoring that for now) it's somewhere in the 5%-6% area. So about 95% of full time PAYE workers of all types in the UK get less compensation*.
Anyone who has the inclination can easily verify this from public domain ONS data.
Mean salaries are meaningless quoted in isolation, at least without giving some partner statistic about the skewness (e.g. kurtosis) of the distribution. In this case, the kurtosis is massive which is just a fancy way of saying arithmetic mean is a useless measure of location. The median is the simplest measure of any use here.
*This explains why it is reasonable for Josephine Average to wonder why this first-glance extraordinary position exists.
theageofthetra
On Moderation
How can we get confirmation of this, if it's fixed or a % of salary.
AverageJoe
On Moderation
Why are people so offended by train driver salaries?
is it a decent wage? Yes. Are we millionaires no!
Do we have to make a lot of sacrifices in order to do the job? Yes!!
Plenty of higher paying jobs out there.
CEO’s managers, company owners, self employed trades, celebrities, sports stars, even lower level sports player likely earn considerably more.
If you feel underpaid then you probably are, fight for better conditions or change job.
Become a train driver and see if it’s the job you think it is.
is it a decent wage? Yes. Are we millionaires no!
Do we have to make a lot of sacrifices in order to do the job? Yes!!
Plenty of higher paying jobs out there.
CEO’s managers, company owners, self employed trades, celebrities, sports stars, even lower level sports player likely earn considerably more.
If you feel underpaid then you probably are, fight for better conditions or change job.
Become a train driver and see if it’s the job you think it is.
12LDA28C
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If you receive it, you should know!
TreacleMiller
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That system is the closest to it, yes.
I'm not trained on it so can't comment further.
SouthStand
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Considering it’s not a graduate job, I’d say you’re very lucky to get that salary. The biggest irk most people have is the seemingly increasing strikes!
AverageJoe
On Moderation
In what way lucky?
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InkyScrolls
On Moderation
Well I'm certainly nowhere near that.
So are we!
They already exist. But the money saved in paying drivers pales into insignificance compared with the many, many billions it would cost to make the network suitable outside of a very few, closed loop locations (i.e. the Tube).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Indeed! Train driving is a highly skilled, mentally and physically demanding career, with huge sacrifices having to be made in one's personal life. Why should that not be adequately compensated? If you paid £25k I doubt you fill the vacancies!
TreacleMiller
Member
Any more bitter sounding?
Graduating from a university has little to do with income in this day and age.
Learnt that the hard way.
Oh and the rules course is easily on par with a HNC in terms of intensity and depth of knowledge - easily.
I have a degree in an advanced subject and made a career with it - earning more than most do based on the median pay figure.
I was never respondible for £40mil worth of equipment and hundreds of lives whilst working shifts and under stringent and regular inspection. I am now.
I was allowed the odd "slow day / off day" at the office. That could now cost me my job or kill people, potentially lots of people. Oh and if I'm in the mood, I could deliberately do so.
Free markets reward skills. We largely have that. Turns out in demand, high value skills with massive economic benefits pay well. Who knew?
I can operate a train safely with fair paying passengers on a single trip and generate thousands in revenue as a minimum. Not bad for circa £40 an hour cost.
Luck has nothing to do with it.
Oh and id say about 1/2 to 2/3 of the drivers at my depot who've joined the railway to drive hold degrees.
Who are ‘the public’ you profess to speak on behalf of? Not seen any blistering comments en masse critical of the pay deal or the strikes.
The better informed public appreciate the need for a pay deal to have been offered, feel we are entitled to a pay deal after 5 years of stagnant salary increases and appreciate the pay deal is some 8% below inflation. Hence the lack of public outcry.
The LNER dispute is a separate matter and is years in the making.
Timing of the LNER dispute unfortunate yes.
Our salary is entirely commensurate with the skill, knowledge, experience, training and responsibility.
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