December 2024 timetable change

[PGAT]

Hastings seems to lose the 0507 to London Victoria, with the next East Coastway service not being until the 0554 to Brighton. I'm hoping it's a mistake as it was always quite busy when I commuted to Eastbourne and I know a lot of people who rely on it.

I believe it is a service that hasn't been filled in yet. On RTT it says the 0537 from Littlehampton gains coaches at Haywards Heath which suggests the Hastings portion is still intended to run

 

[GatwickDepress]

I believe it is a service that hasn't been filled in yet. On RTT it says the 0537 from Littlehampton gains coaches at Haywards Heath which suggests the Hastings portion is still intended to run

Good to know, thank you. My worries have been assuaged!

 

[Peter0124]

Is it just c2c, Scotrail, Avanti and Greater Anglia to be uploaded?

 

[hexagon789]

Is it just c2c, Scotrail, Avanti and Greater Anglia to be uploaded?

Believe so

 

[stan claire]

Hopefully 331s will still be used on Preston-Manchester as I'm not a fan of the 323s (the 3+2 seating specifically)

I can see them using 331s and 323s (and pray that they do because a short formed 323 on 1Y55 will be my thirteenth reason) but surely there won't be enough 323s to do Airport to Blackpool (especially as a 6 car), Glossop, probably Manchester to Crewe, maybe a few Liverpool to Wigans as well as Bolton to Wigan *maybe* using 6 car 323s once wired? Also as a commuter on the Blackpool to Airport services the 323s would be a significant downgrade from the 331s in my opinion in the way the 331s just have a way better interior, standing room and aircon over the 323s, however it'll be much better than cramming onto a 4 car 331
Also how come it still shows Sunday timings as 319s despite them not running regular services here since 2021, as well as their complete withdrawal at the start of the year?

 

[Peter0124]

I can see them using 331s and 323s (and pray that they do because a short formed 323 on 1Y55 will be my thirteenth reason) but surely there won't be enough 323s to do Airport to Blackpool (especially as a 6 car), Glossop, probably Manchester to Crewe, maybe a few Liverpool to Wigans as well as Bolton to Wigan *maybe* using 6 car 323s once wired? Also as a commuter on the Blackpool to Airport services the 323s would be a significant downgrade from the 331s in my opinion in the way the 331s just have a way better interior, standing room and aircon over the 323s, however it'll be much better than cramming onto a 4 car 331
Also how come it still shows Sunday timings as 319s despite them not running regular services here since 2021, as well as their complete withdrawal at the start of the year?

Also Manchester to Stoke which currently uses a mix of 323 and 331. Its possible they'll be taken from that to do the services through Preston.

 

[dontteleport]

I deleted it as I was looking at Sundays by mistake

I did a victory lap but alas, too soon. The lack of a direct Brighton - Clapham Junction service is a pet peeve of mine, and the promised simple changes often don't materialise that way! It really makes no sense to me not to offer this given the small armies of passengers I see each time sprinting across Gatwick footbridge onto the packed xx:43 departure. Apparently it's preferable to Bognor services having to split at Haywards Heath

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Apparently it's preferable to Bognor services having to split at Haywards Heath

Yes. Both coastways are too busy to have one or both operate as a 4 car versus catering to the CLJ - BTN flow given it's a couple mins connection at HHE (amongst other stations)

 

[stan claire]

Also Manchester to Stoke which currently uses a mix of 323 and 331. Its possible they'll be taken from that to do the services through Preston.

As in 323s or 331s? I can also for some reason see some Glossop 323s being used on Preston services when some of the 4 car 331s get sent their way

 

[cle]

17:40 London Bridge to Sutton via Forest Hill

Interesting non-stop run from West Croydon to Sutton at the end.

Speeding to a turnaround no doubt... What do these two new services become at Sutton?

 

[Failed Unit]

On Great Northern, three peak trains have been reinstated in each direction in the path of the Baldock peak service between Letchworth and Kings Cross. Southbound they leave Letchworth at 0717, 0745 and 0817, and northbound they leave at 1724, 1754 and 1824. They call at all stations Letchworth - Welwyn North, skipping Stevenage.

Also, the two Peterborough peak services marked as "Runs as required" in the current timetable are now no longer shown as such (iirc these trains are meant to start running from October?).

I was hoping they would reinstate some of the evening services to keep the 30 minute interval to Potters Bar, Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City after 2200. Hopefully next time as the existing services can be very crowded in the evening. This is good news however as it will provide more seats on the Cambridge services. Hopefully there won’t be any extra 700 operated services

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting non-stop run from West Croydon to Sutton at the end.

Speeding to a turnaround no doubt... What do these two new services become at Sutton?

The two via Forest Hill go to Victoria empty then to Streatham Hill Depot.

The one via Tulse Hill goes to Epsom sidings, Victoria then the carriage sidings.

 

[Jimini]

Interesting non-stop run from West Croydon to Sutton at the end.

Speeding to a turnaround no doubt... What do these two new services become at Sutton?

Just like the old SWT services 20 or so years ago!

 

[PGAT]

There is also a morning service that departs at 0700 and goes to London Bridge via Norbury skipping Carshalton Beeches and Waddon although there is a long wait at West Croydon afterwards

I did a victory lap but alas, too soon. The lack of a direct Brighton - Clapham Junction service is a pet peeve of mine, and the promised simple changes often don't materialise that way! It really makes no sense to me not to offer this given the small armies of passengers I see each time sprinting across Gatwick footbridge onto the packed xx:43 departure. Apparently it's preferable to Bognor services having to split at Haywards Heath

It would be preferable if they adopted the Sunday arrangement of cutting GX away from Brighton but that’s for another thread

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As in 323s or 331s? I can also for some reason see some Glossop 323s being used on Preston services when some of the 4 car 331s get sent their way

Can 331s even go to Glossop?

 

[rg177]

Can 331s even go to Glossop?

They've definitely been tested down there, photos here: https://friendsofglossopstation.weebly.com/home/new-class-331-trains-on-test-on-glossop-line

 

[ThameslinkUser]

It would be preferable if they adopted the Sunday arrangement of cutting GX away from Brighton but that’s for another thread

Preferable for whom? It's a very effective use of resources at the moment.

 

[Class 466]

I could be remembering totally wrong but when Northern last ran the Huddersfield half of the stopper it was 195s and I suspect it will be againj despite the timings.

Nope, it'll be a 150 as per the timing load - there aren't 195s available.

 

[bristollh]

They've definitely been tested down there, photos here: https://friendsofglossopstation.weebly.com/home/new-class-331-trains-on-test-on-glossop-line

331029 was working Hadfields the Saturday before last (10th August). Impressed some fellow passengers on the journey I caught.

Jeff

 

[cle]

There is also a morning service that departs at 0700 and goes to London Bridge via Norbury skipping Carshalton Beeches and Waddon although there is a long wait at West Croydon afterwards

I seem to recall a few in the old days which called at Wallington.
Similarly, I remember some services fast from Clapham Juncton to Carshalton.

 

[bw_267]

On Great Northern, three peak trains have been reinstated in each direction in the path of the Baldock peak service between Letchworth and Kings Cross. Southbound they leave Letchworth at 0717, 0745 and 0817, and northbound they leave at 1724, 1754 and 1824. They call at all stations Letchworth - Welwyn North, skipping Stevenage.

Also, the two Peterborough peak services marked as "Runs as required" in the current timetable are now no longer shown as such (iirc these trains are meant to start running from October?).

It's a shame GN continues to neglect Hertford loop services, especially north of Gordon Hill. Hopefully in the future semi fasts return to the line in addition to the current service because Hertford North especially has poor off peak frequency and a long journey time into London despite it's size and proximity to London

 

[Failed Unit]

It's a shame GN continues to neglect Hertford loop services, especially north of Gordon Hill. Hopefully in the future semi fasts return to the line in addition to the current service because Hertford North especially has poor off peak frequency and a long journey time into London despite it's size and proximity to London

Maybe one for a different thread, but I don't think GN have enough drivers to bring back the complete 2018 timetable. I think they have such a backlog that using Covid as an excuse for the current level of services is a great excuse for them. The Letchworth - London ones returning this timetable will relieve the Cambridge - London services operating at the same time. They are beginning to get full, but not overcrowded to the levels they were pre 2018 timetable. So it is a great relief they are taking action now.

Will we see the 15 minute returning to the off-peak frequency? I hope so, but not until we see a drastic improvement in the number of drivers they have available. But agree Hertford north has its worse frequency for many years (definately since privatisation) - granted more seats but the services are getting reasonable loadings now so I suspect that the poor frequency is probably directing people towards alternatives such as the piccadilly line.

 

[sp503]

A bit disappointed that SWR hasn’t reinstated the weekday evening half-hourly services to Reading. Half of them still terminate at Bracknell after 8pm. I thought that with the anticipated introduction of 701s (finally that’s really happening) the half-hourly services could come back. Really useful as the population around Wokingham area has increased quite significantly in the past couple of years.

 

[JonathanH]

A bit disappointed that SWR hasn’t reinstated the weekday evening half-hourly services to Reading. Half of them still terminate at Bracknell after 8pm. I thought that with the anticipated introduction of 701s (finally that’s really happening) the half-hourly services could come back.

I can't imagine the terminating of services at Bracknell is stock related. Unfortunately, Bracknell works as a terminating point with the way the current timetable is structured, rather than Wokingham which would make more sense from a traffic perspective.

 

[Baji]

The one via Tulse Hill goes to Epsom sidings

Shame that service only goes up to Sutton rather than being extended to Epsom

 

[30907]

Shame that service only goes up to Sutton rather than being extended to Epsom

It only goes to Epsom because there isn't time to change ends and go back empty to Victoria, its final destination.

 

[moonarrow458]

The two via Forest Hill go to Victoria empty then to Streatham Hill Depot.

The one via Tulse Hill goes to Epsom sidings, Victoria then the carriage sidings.

Shame that service only goes up to Sutton rather than being extended to Epsom

It only goes to Epsom because there isn't time to change ends and go back empty to Victoria, its final destination.

I suppose the point being made here is that if it has to run to Epsom anyway in order to turnround its a shame they dont run it in service all the way instead of tipping out at Sutton and running empty to Epsom.

I personally would've thought thered be more of a performance risk terminating at Sutton and blocking the through platform for several minutes whilst you lock the train out to go ECS. At Epsom there's more platforms so even if there were delays you wouldn't necessarily delay everything behind it, unlike at Sutton

 

[JonathanH]

At Epsom there's more platforms so even if there were delays you wouldn't necessarily delay everything behind it, unlike at Sutton

Epsom has a very restrictive layout from the north, but fewer trains than Sutton. Platform 4 at Sutton is occupied at the time the train arrives there.

The empty train runs to the sidings at Epsom, not the platforms.

 

[30907]

I suppose the point being made here is that if it has to run to Epsom anyway in order to turnround its a shame they dont run it in service all the way instead of tipping out at Sutton and running empty to Epsom.

I personally would've thought thered be more of a performance risk terminating at Sutton and blocking the through platform for several minutes whilst you lock the train out to go ECS. At Epsom there's more platforms so even if there were delays you wouldn't necessarily delay everything behind it, unlike at Sutton

At Epsom all down SN trains must use P1, and, checking the timetable, there would only be 2min to lock out there instead of 4 at Sutton.

Sorry, missed previous post which covers similar ground.

 

[moonarrow458]

Epsom has a very restrictive layout from the north, but fewer trains than Sutton. Platform 4 at Sutton is occupied at the time the train arrives there.

The empty train runs to the sidings at Epsom, not the platforms.

At Epsom all down SN trains must use P1, and, checking the timetable, there would only be 2min to lock out there instead of 4 at Sutton.

Sorry, missed previous post which covers similar ground.

Ahh right, sorry i was always under the impression that SN trains could use both 1 & 2 southbound at Epsom, but now taking a closer look at the track layout its quite apparent that they only use pl.1 .

But thank you both for the explanation, its always helpful to know exactly why sonethings can or can't be done.