December 2024 timetable change

[30907]

But thank you both for the explanation, its always helpful to know exactly why sonethings can or can't be done.

And it's never wrong to ask

 

[hexagon789]

Anyone have an idea when the final four TOCs are likely to appear?

(Avanti, ScotRail, Greater Anglia and c2c)

 

[Peter0124]

Anyone have an idea when the final four TOCs are likely to appear?

(Avanti, ScotRail, Greater Anglia and c2c)

I've noticed it seems to be around 9pm each day that they get uploaded, so there is a chance one of them could be up tonight, but judging by the last few weekdays, probably not tonight.

 

[hexagon789]

I've noticed it seems to be around 9pm each day that they get uploaded, so there is a chance one of them could be up tonight, but judging by the last few weekdays, probably not tonight.

Thank you, I'll just keep checking each evening then as before.

I've noticed it seems to be around 9pm each day that they get uploaded, so there is a chance one of them could be up tonight, but judging by the last few weekdays, probably not tonight.

ScotRail and c2c are now in, Avanti and Greater Anglia still absent.

 

[dk1]

Thank you, I'll just keep checking each evening then as before.


ScotRail and c2c are now in, Avanti and Greater Anglia still absent.

As I’ve previously stated, we are saving the best until last. Let’s hope Scotrail are next to upload

 

[hexagon789]

As I’ve previously stated, we are saving the best until last. Let’s hope Scotrail are next to upload

ScotRail is in, though.

It's just Avanti and GA that aren't

 

[dk1]

ScotRail is in, though.

It's just Avanti and GA that aren't

Whoops!! I meant to say Avanti next

 

[hexagon789]

Whoops!! I meant to say Avanti next

It's okay, at first I thought maybe I had made a typo and put the wrong TOC!

 

[Peter0124]

GA are in. Avanti late as usual

 

[dk1]

GA are in. Avanti late as usual

Darn it

Just cast my beady eye over Norwich SX departures and nothing appears to have changed. Regional routes have a possible shake up in May 25 but for now it’s a shame the 08:09 & 18:04 Yarmouth along with their return workings have still not returned.

 

[bramling]

Saw a post on a local user group regarding the extra Letchworth to KX GN services; which reads along the lines of “another pair of services is under consideration subject to one of our trains being upgraded from 90 mph to 100 mph”.

One presumes this implies class 717 operation.

 

[chefchenko]

Probably still no hourly Sunday service Northern Manchester to Stoke-on-Trent or Manchester to Chester via Altrincham.

Had I a pound for each thread in which I've written that so far, I could probably take a day's extra leave!

I think the long suffering folk of Congleton have given up !!!

 

[Jaydubya]

First time poster…

I was wondering if all the Southern trains are added to the December timetable on real time trains. Currently there are trains at 0750 and 0820 from Streatham Hill to London Bridge via Tulse Hill that appear to have gone.

These fulfil two purposes for passengers: (1) help provide extra capacity on the Peckham Rye route which is often busy at peak times with just 6 car trains; (2) provide a considerably more direct and quicker service from Streatham Hill to London Bridge compared to the round the houses route via Crystal Palace or the hassle of interchange on to the Northern Line at Balham. I get on these quite regularly at Tulse Hill and they have a good loading of passengers from Streatham Hill. Looking at real time trains it appears as if one sort of replacement service is provided from Sutton roughly around the time the 0820 service ran.

Any knowledge gratefully received as makes a future prospective move to Streatham Hill less attractive!

 

[PGAT]

First time poster…

I was wondering if all the Southern trains are added to the December timetable on real time trains. Currently there are trains at 0750 and 0820 from Streatham Hill to London Bridge via Tulse Hill that appear to have gone.

These fulfil two purposes for passengers: (1) help provide extra capacity on the Peckham Rye route which is often busy at peak times with just 6 car trains; (2) provide a considerably more direct and quicker service from Streatham Hill to London Bridge compared to the round the houses route via Crystal Palace or the hassle of interchange on to the Northern Line at Balham. I get on these quite regularly at Tulse Hill and they have a good loading of passengers from Streatham Hill. Looking at real time trains it appears as if one sort of replacement service is provided from Sutton roughly around the time the 0820 service ran.

Any knowledge gratefully received as makes a future prospective move to Streatham Hill less attractive!

The 0750 and 0820 were both supplemented by ECS services from Victoria which have now been diverted elsewhere to accommodate the new services. One of them is the aforementioned replacement service from Sutton and the other is the 0903 from Norwood Junction to London Bridge

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The 0750 and 0820 were both supplemented by ECS services from Victoria which have now been diverted elsewhere to accommodate the new services. One of them is the aforementioned replacement service from Sutton and the other is the 0903 from Norwood Junction to London Bridge

Since these two trains were effectively the "Parliamentary" service over the chord between Streatham Hill and Tulse Hill, there must be something else new at least once a week to cover that section - is there any sign of such a replacement in the new uploads?

Presumably at an ungodly hour on the weekend like previously?

 

[SC318250]

The evening diesel Glasgow Central to Edinburgh service and late night Edinburgh to Motherwell service and the morning Motherwell to Edinburgh which were Class 158 operated look as tho they are now booked for a Class 385 from new timetable

 

[Kite159]

The evening diesel Glasgow Central to Edinburgh service and late night Edinburgh to Motherwell service and the morning Motherwell to Edinburgh which were Class 158 operated look as tho they are now booked for a Class 385 from new timetable

Weren't those services diesel as a way to get the 158s to the depot in Glasgow for maintenance? So if they go across to 385 run will it mean an increase of dead mileage from Edinburgh to/from Corkerhill?

Or more 158s being used on Glasgow - Dundee services?

 

[Peter0124]

Weren't those services diesel as a way to get the 158s to the depot in Glasgow for maintenance? So if they go across to 385 run will it mean an increase of dead mileage from Edinburgh to/from Corkerhill?

Or more 158s being used on Glasgow - Dundee services?

The 2Y56 06:14 Glasgow to Edinburgh and 2Y69 22:59 Edinburgh to Glasgow are both 158s now instead of the Motherwell ones.

Appears that 2Y56 works the 08:03 from Edinburgh to Leven when it arrives in Waverley.

 

[PGAT]

Since these two trains were effectively the "Parliamentary" service over the chord between Streatham Hill and Tulse Hill, there must be something else new at least once a week to cover that section - is there any sign of such a replacement in the new uploads?

Presumably at an ungodly hour on the weekend like previously?

I’ve identified ECS movements like this that reverse at Tulse Hill making use of the chord. There are no passenger services.

Realtime Trains | 5B06 0555 Streatham Hill Down Sdg to Sutton (Surrey) | 23/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5B06 0555 departure from Streatham Hill Down Sdg to Sutton (Surrey) on 23/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[MikeWM]

I guess it wouldn't be a timetable thread if I didn't have my usual moans, none of which are improved by this timetable:

Firstly there are no later last trains from Kings Cross to north of Cambridge on Mondays to Fridays, despite such being promised in the 2018 draft timetable.

Then the Sunday timetable from Ely remains awful:

- First train in any direction is still at the ludicrously late hour of 0857, making it impossible to get to Cambridge before 9am or London before 10am.
- First train in the Peterborough direction isn't until 1049, which itself has pretty terrible connections at Peterborough, meaning you can't get to Leeds or York before 1pm.
- The first southbound XC service isn't until 1353 (!). Westbound is at least a bit better, with the first service at 1115, though this still means you can't get to Birmingham before 1.30pm.
- All the trains to/from Cambridge remain bunched together - 3 trains an hour to Cambridge, but they leave within 10 minutes of each other. 3 trains an hour from Cambridge, but they leave within 13 minutes of each other.

Finally the (M-F) 0948 Ely-Kings Cross remains starting at Ely, rather than starting back at Kings Lynn as it did pre-covid. I'm not actually moaning about that, it's quite useful for me, but a significant gap for those north of Ely, and given how busy the following train is on arrival at Ely, there's seems sufficient demand for it to start back at Lynn again.

 

[43055]

I guess it wouldn't be a timetable thread if I didn't have my usual moans, none of which are improved by this timetable:

Firstly there are no later last trains from Kings Cross to north of Cambridge on Mondays to Fridays, despite such being promised in the 2018 draft timetable.

Then the Sunday timetable from Ely remains awful:

- First train in any direction is still at the ludicrously late hour of 0857, making it impossible to get to Cambridge before 9am or London before 10am.
- First train in the Peterborough direction isn't until 1049, which itself has pretty terrible connections at Peterborough, meaning you can't get to Leeds or York before 1pm.
- The first southbound XC service isn't until 1353 (!). Westbound is at least a bit better, with the first service at 1115, though this still means you can't get to Birmingham before 1.30pm.
- All the trains to/from Cambridge remain bunched together - 3 trains an hour to Cambridge, but they leave within 10 minutes of each other. 3 trains an hour from Cambridge, but they leave within 13 minutes of each other.

Finally the (M-F) 0948 Ely-Kings Cross remains starting at Ely, rather than starting back at Kings Lynn as it did pre-covid. I'm not actually moaning about that, it's quite useful for me, but a significant gap for those north of Ely, and given how busy the following train is on arrival at Ely, there's seems sufficient demand for it to start back at Lynn again.

For Cross Country at least it is because the line between Leicester and Peterborough doesn't open until 1200. 1353 is still earlier than the first services along the North Staffs Line which doesn't open until 1430 on a Sunday!

 

[Adrian1980uk]

As I’ve previously stated, we are saving the best until last. Let’s hope Scotrail are next to upload

I see GA were delayed by the massive amount of changes... I jest as why change a timetable that seems to work well

 

[TheBigD]

For Cross Country at least it is because the line between Leicester and Peterborough doesn't open until 1200. 1353 is still earlier than the first services along the North Staffs Line which doesn't open until 1430 on a Sunday!

The line between Leicester and Peterborough is now open 24hrs, 7 days a week.

 

[Peter0124]

I see GA were delayed by the massive amount of changes... I jest as why change a timetable that seems to work well

Sounds like Avanti could have some decent changes coming along with this one then. Maybe the 2nd Liverpool?

 

[dk1]

I see GA were delayed by the massive amount of changes... I jest as why change a timetable that seems to work well

Yes I know. Not sure why it took quite so long considering.

 

[Toby268]

Sounds like Avanti could have some decent changes coming along with this one then. Maybe the 2nd Liverpool?

Supposed to be additional Liverpool services from December but not 2 an hour all day.

 

[hexagon789]

Sounds like Avanti could have some decent changes coming along with this one then. Maybe the 2nd Liverpool?

It won't be the full 2nd Liverpool, but possibly some additional 390-timed ones with Tamworth & Lichfield calls; some were planned for either June or last December I forget which, but postponed.

Then there's switching two pairs of Euston-Birmingham-Blackpool to run to/from Glasgow instead, with Blackpool getting 1 additional up and 2 down via Trent Valleys in compensation. The application for this was submitted earlier this year.

Then the potential for more hours with three Euston/Birmingham services, allowing more Euston-Birmingham-Scotland to run fast Euston/Coventry.

Those are the changes which could appear but have to wait to see what will appear.

 

[Toby268]

It won't be the full 2nd Liverpool, but possibly some additional 390-timed ones with Tamworth & Lichfield calls; some were planned for either June or last December I forget which, but postponed.

Then there's switching two pairs of Euston-Birmingham-Blackpool to run to/from Glasgow instead, with Blackpool getting 1 additional up and 2 down via Trent Valleys in compensation. The application for this was submitted earlier this year.

Then the potential for more hours with three Euston/Birmingham services, allowing more Euston-Birmingham-Scotland to run fast Euston/Coventry.

Those are the changes which could appear but have to wait to see what will appear.

The Blackpool changes you’ve mentioned are bid for may/June 25 timetable change (I forget which month it is) not Decembers.

 

[Robski]

Saw a post on a local user group regarding the extra Letchworth to KX GN services; which reads along the lines of “another pair of services is under consideration subject to one of our trains being upgraded from 90 mph to 100 mph”.

One presumes this implies class 717 operation.

By this do they mean that an additional 2 services on top of the 6 already planned? If so, then in my opinion the bigger blocker is probably driver headcount - I struggle to see how they will crew the new trains already planned, yet alone more.

 

[hexagon789]

The Blackpool changes you’ve mentioned are bid for may/June 25 timetable change (I forget which month it is) not Decembers.

So probably just some extra Liverpools then, if there are any Avanti changes.