Penalty fare

[lilyjones11]

Hello,

I just want some advice. I was travelling from Liverpool to London yesterday. I was fined for not having my railcard on me, however, I also had put in a child ticket as well. The inspector issued me a penalty fare for not having my railcard, i tried to pay online but it would not let me so I paid in person which was fine. However he didn’t mention anything about it being a child ticket and only charged me the penalty fare for not having my railcard. Did he remove it from online because he later noticed it was a child ticket and is it likely to be taken further now I’ve paid the penalty fare

 

[ikcdab]

If you have paid the penalty fare then the case is closed and you will hear no more.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which train company are you dealing with? Liverpool to London direct is with Avanti West Coast who do not operate a Penalty Fare scheme.

Have you travelled on other tickets without a railcard, or claimed a child discount when you are not eligible for one?

 

[30907]

It's more likely that the details hadn't uploaded to the website in time.

The matter is now closed - consider yourself lucky.

 

[lilyjones11]

I have travelled previously with child tickets and I accidentally put in the wrong railcard this time round as well. He has given me the penalty fare but I think it didn’t come up online because he realised it was a child ticket and decided to remove it instead. I gave him all my details and then he gave it to me, I tried to pay it online and it was gone. Is there a chance he could of removed it? It was visible on the in person train system but not online. If it was cancelled is there a chance it could still appear on the train system but not online? Also roughly how long does it take for a penalty fare to be visible online? And once it’s been paid does it still appear online or disappear? I still can’t find it now

 

[island]

Can you clarify what kind of document you received? Avanti, the only train operating company with direct service from Liverpool to London, do not do penalty fares.

Where did you pay? Do you have a receipt?

 

[lilyjones11]

Can you clarify what kind of document you received? Avanti, the only train operating company with direct service from Liverpool to London, do not do penalty fares.

Where did you pay? Do you have a receipt?

Hello, it wasn’t a direct train as I stopped off to see my friend on the way. The train company that issued me the penalty fare notice was SWR

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello, it wasn’t a direct train as I stopped off to see my friend on the way. The train company that issued me the penalty fare notice was SWR

That's quite a long way away from a Liverpool to London trip! SWR may have noted the fact you purchased a child ticket and sent a data request to the ticket purchaser to uncover further offending. The Penalty Fare disposes of the single instance where you got caught, but not historic fare evasion. If they contact you again, please do let us know.

 

[John R]

Hello, it wasn’t a direct train as I stopped off to see my friend on the way. The train company that issued me the penalty fare notice was SWR

If you were stopped by SWR then it's a somewhat circuitous way round. Can you be more specific as to exactly where you were issued with the penalty fare, and what was that particular leg of the journey. (ie where were you travelling from and to on that service.)

 

[lilyjones11]

The length of the journey I was doing was only around 20 minutes. When I paid the fine they said that the case was closed, however, if it was realised it was a child ticket could they bring it back up now? And when the inspector went to issue the penalty fair could his machine of stopped him doing it as he had my details which said my birthday, would the machine stop him putting it through as he scanned the ticket which was a child one??

 

[John R]

The length of the journey I was doing was only around 20 minutes.

From where to where?

 

[island]

The length of the journey I was doing was only around 20 minutes. When I paid the fine they said that the case was closed, however, if it was realised it was a child ticket could they bring it back up now? And when the inspector went to issue the penalty fair could his machine of stopped him doing it as he had my details which said my birthday, would the machine stop him putting it through as he scanned the ticket which was a child one??

We really are having to drag answers out of you here. If we’ve asked questions it’s because they’re important, not because we’re trying to wind you up.

So once again – where did you pay the Penalty Fare and do you have a receipt?

 

[lilyjones11]

I wouldn’t wanna say just because I want to keep this anonymous. But I have a receipt of me paying the penalty fare and I paid it in person at the closest train station to me

 

[alholmes]

One additional thought is how you had a child ticket with a railcard discount - I’m struggling to think what railcard that could be.

As others have said, lots of unanswered questions here which make it very difficult to offer help / advice.

 

[lilyjones11]

What I wanted to ask was now that the penalty fair has been given could they take it further if they later realise it was a child ticket

 

[soil]

What I wanted to ask was now that the penalty fair has been given could they take it further if they later realise it was a child ticket

since you refuse to give proper facts and appear to be lying about the circumstances where this took place, nobody could possibly begin to answer your question.

 

[lilyjones11]

since you refuse to give proper facts and appear to be lying about the circumstances where this took place, nobody could possibly begin to answer your question.

Why so harsh? I’m just trying to get anonymous advice I don’t understand why I need to be accused of lying

 

[Hadders]

Forum members want to aassist you but we cannot help if we do not know what has happened. The reason we are asking questions is because only certain train companies are allowed to issue Penalty Fares and the train company operating between Liverpool and London isn't one of them. We want to make sure the train company has followed the specific rules when issuing the Penalty Fare.

So far what you've told us is:

You made a journey from Liverpool to London. Can you tell us which train companies you travelled with.
You were issued with a Penalty Fare, by SWR. SWR don't operate trains anywhere near the Liverpool to London route, so we need to know how you managed to be travelling on a SWR train.
Exactly what tickets did you use? What railcard discounts were applied? How much did the ticket cost?

Can you also tell us the value of the Penalty Fare you paid. Ideally we need to see the entire notice (as there are often mistakes made when they are issued). Do cover up any reference numbers on the documentation before uploading it.

Normally once a Penalty Fare is paid that is the end of the matter in respect of that single incident. Some train companies have been known to audit the purchase history of people who have been issued Penalty Fares and then ask further questions if this indicates there are other ticket purchasing irregularities.

 

[WesternLancer]

What I wanted to ask was now that the penalty fair has been given could they take it further if they later realise it was a child ticket

Ultimately yes. If they decide to look at your case and realise you are guilty of other ticket infringements they could seek to question you about them.

Whether they could pursue that to a successful court prosecution is hard to say.

Whether they are likely to do that is hard to say. I suspect not but that’s just my hunch. It may be you have got lucky this time and they haven’t noticed and won’t notice. But if you keep doing it eventually your luck will run out.

They do also keep records of who has been issued a penalty fare. If you keep getting them they tend to stop issuing them and report people for investigation so in that scenario all sorts of things can get uncovered. Like purchase records of previous child tickets, railcard discounts when no railcard held etc.

The above is my personal view.

 

[lilyjones11]

Forum members want to aassist you but we cannot help if we do not know what has happened. The reason we are asking questions is because only certain train companies are allowed to issue Penalty Fares and the train company operating between Liverpool and London isn't one of them. We want to make sure the train company has followed the specific rules when issuing the Penalty Fare.

So far what you've told us is:

You made a journey from Liverpool to London. Can you tell us which train companies you travelled with.
You were issued with a Penalty Fare, by SWR. SWR don't operate trains anywhere near the Liverpool to London route, so we need to know how you managed to be travelling on a SWR train.
Exactly what tickets did you use? What railcard discounts were applied? How much did the ticket cost?

Can you also tell us the value of the Penalty Fare you paid. Ideally we need to see the entire notice (as there are often mistakes made when they are issued). Do cover up any reference numbers on the documentation before uploading it.

Normally once a Penalty Fare is paid that is the end of the matter in respect of that single incident. Some train companies have been known to audit the purchase history of people who have been issued Penalty Fares and then ask further questions if this indicates there are other ticket purchasing irregularities.

could I message you privately about this so not every single person can see the notice?

The reason I am not giving away much information is because my full name is the name of my account as I forgot to change it and I don’t want anymore traces back

 

[Hadders]

could I message you privately about this so not every single person can see the notice?

It's our policy not to give advice off the main forum. This is because collectively we are a group of experts in railway ticketing matters. What one person might miss another forum member is likely to spot.

 

[lilyjones11]

Also I just wanted to say that they did spell my name wrong on the penalty fare notice, could this be why it wasn’t uploading online? The fare notice cost me £75

 

[Hadders]

I'm unsure if you've actually been issued with a Penalty Fare. PFs are normally £100 plus the appropriate fare, discounted to £50 plus the appropriate fare if paid within 21 days.

A PF from Liverpool to London will be more than £75. We cannot help you if we can't see what you've been given and if you keep drip feeding us information.

 

[lilyjones11]

It said on the notice ‘penalty fare’ and it wasn’t all the way from London to Liverpool because I stopped to see my friend then bought a new ticket to get from my friends to London a few hours later. They told me the price of the penalty fare would be £50 plus the amount of money it would cost to get from where I got on to London, which was around £25. Would that make sense in that case for it to be £75 or should it have been £100 from the start?

 

[Hadders]

Without knowing the stations involved I can't say.

 

[lilyjones11]

I’ve never received a penalty fair before either, would this be likely to help or can you not say?

 

[FenMan]

I’ve never received a penalty fair before either, would this be likely to help or can you not say?

If you actually want to be helped I suggest answering the questions posed in this thread would be a good start.

 

[WesternLancer]

It said on the notice ‘penalty fare’ and it wasn’t all the way from London to Liverpool because I stopped to see my friend then bought a new ticket to get from my friends to London a few hours later. They told me the price of the penalty fare would be £50 plus the amount of money it would cost to get from where I got on to London, which was around £25. Would that make sense in that case for it to be £75 or should it have been £100 from the start?

So the journey to Liverpool is irrelevant.

You were given a Penalty Fare by SWR for a train journey from somewhere to or from London for not having a correct ticket?

You have paid that penalty fare.

Chances are that will be the end of it and you will hear nothing more. If you do hear more you can come back here for more advice and information.

 

[lilyjones11]

So the journey to Liverpool is irrelevant.

You were given a Penalty Fare by SWR for a train journey from somewhere to or from London for not having a correct ticket?

You have paid that penalty fare.

Chances are that will be the end of it and you will hear nothing more. If you do hear more you can come back here for more advice and information.

Thank you for this advice, would they be able to bring it back up if they later discovered it was a child ticket? Also could I just ask you of possible reasons as to why penalty fares don’t appear online if you know? And is this a common thing you’ve seen on here?

 

[John R]

We are struggling to understand how a penalty fare can have been issued for not having a railcard and at the same time you are suggesting that it was a child ticket. Those two facts appear incompatible.