Greater Anglia Travel irregularity

[tkc030765]

Hi guys,

I hope you’re well and thank you for taking the time to read this and help me with this matter.

I received an email recently regarding travel irregularities on my account with trainline, similarly to the many others on this page. Please find the letter below:


Re: Trainline Account

We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares for the rail services you have been using.

This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent.

We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this matter with you efficiently.

We invite you to respond to this letter within 7 days by email to [email protected] quoting the reference number XXX in the subject field.

I usually buy a ticket to the next stop which usually has the gate open so I don’t need to scan out or i just show the guy at the gate who lets me through. Sometimes it’s been a case as well that I’m rushing to not miss the train on the way back from Station B to station A and the gates are open so I buy a ticket as I’m running on to the train and of course i scan out of station A as the barriers are always gated.

In the past I have tried to play the game by buying a ticket to next stop to get to London and then tap in using my oyster or contactless from mainline station to go about my day in London

Also noting how Trainline recently placed a prompt notification about railcards when purchasing a ticket during peak times, beforehand my railcard was always automatically on there when purchasing a ticket because me being clueless I didn’t even know it was an issue to use it before 10am when it accepted it on an anytime day single! Since I received the prompt notification I removed the railcard for my purchases and that was well over a few months ago now.

I have never been caught with an invalid ticket or anything to dispute and I’m yet to respond as I believe that whatever I do can lead to one way or another, are you guys able to advise on the best steps going ahead with this?

 

[AlterEgo]

Say, and do, nothing - other than stop committing such an obvious fraud, and pay for your tickets properly.

Make no comment and do not reply to their email.

 

[tkc030765]

Say, and do, nothing - other than stop committing such an obvious fraud, and pay for your tickets properly.

Make no comment and do not reply to their email.

Do I continue to purchase via Trainline or stop using it and buy paper tickets? Or does it not make a difference?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==

@Hadders can you advise?

 

[AlterEgo]

Do I continue to purchase via Trainline or stop using it and buy paper tickets? Or does it not make a difference?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==

@Hadders can you advise?

Why would you continue to purchase tickets using a site which has worked out what you’ve been up to?

Start again with another site, and pay for your tickets properly. Because they’ll work it out as well.

 

[tkc030765]

Why would you continue to purchase tickets using a site which has worked out what you’ve been up to?

Start again with another site, and pay for your tickets properly. Because they’ll work it out as well.

Can you suggest ones please it’s obviously not great to use GA’s own app

 

[High Dyke]

Can you suggest ones please it’s obviously not great to use GA’s own app

This forum has a ticket purchase link. It helps this forum.

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[tkc030765]

Thank you

 

[Hadders]

The principle here is that purchasing tickets isn't illegal but using them illegally is. Greater Anglia have conducted a data trawl that indicates a journey pattern that doesn't look right and have contacted you about it. The issue is can Greater Anglia link these journeys to you. There are two possible outcomes here:

1. You co-operate with Greater Anglia and 'fess up' to what you've done. They will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement. You won't be prosecuted and won't have a criminal record.

2. You say nothing. You aren't required to incriminate yourself. It's is unlikely (but not impossible) that Greater Anglia will have sufficient evidence to link the suspicious data pattern to you, to a standard of proof required to secure a conviction in the Magistrates Court. Tt is possible that Greater Anglia have CCTV or some other evidence that links you to the suspicious journeys.

If you co-operate then once the settlement is paid that is the end of the matter. If you decide to say nothing then it probably won't go anywhere but it might do, either now or in the future.

It's really down to your appetite for risk. As for where you purchase your tickets in future it really doesn't matter. Just make sure you always have a valid ticket before boarding a train.

 

[island]

Regardless of whether you choose to engage with the email, it is absolutely essential that you purchase the correct ticket going forward, covering the full length of your journey, before you get on the train. Your card is now very much marked.

 

[AlterEgo]

If GA had any CCTV evidence (of whom? just a person? They have no idea what the OP looks like!) they would quite simply confront the OP with it, or, better, have bothered to stop them and got irrefutable evidence of the offending.

At this stage it's a fishing exercise precisely because they don't have evidence to move forward, so the best advice is no comment, and pack in the fare evasion - you have been rumbled.

 

[tkc030765]

Regardless of whether you choose to engage with the email, it is absolutely essential that you purchase the correct ticket going forward, covering the full length of your journey, before you get on the train. Your card is now very much marked.

Noted!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

If GA had any CCTV evidence (of whom? just a person? They have no idea what the OP looks like!) they would quite simply confront the OP with it, or, better, have bothered to stop them and got irrefutable evidence of the offending.

At this stage it's a fishing exercise precisely because they don't have evidence to move forward, so the best advice is no comment, and pack in the fare evasion - you have been rumbled.

The principle here is that purchasing tickets isn't illegal but using them illegally is. Greater Anglia have conducted a data trawl that indicates a journey pattern that doesn't look right and have contacted you about it. The issue is can Greater Anglia link these journeys to you. There are two possible outcomes here:

1. You co-operate with Greater Anglia and 'fess up' to what you've done. They will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement. You won't be prosecuted and won't have a criminal record.

2. You say nothing. You aren't required to incriminate yourself. It's is unlikely (but not impossible) that Greater Anglia will have sufficient evidence to link the suspicious data pattern to you, to a standard of proof required to secure a conviction in the Magistrates Court. Tt is possible that Greater Anglia have CCTV or some other evidence that links you to the suspicious journeys.

If you co-operate then once the settlement is paid that is the end of the matter. If you decide to say nothing then it probably won't go anywhere but it might do, either now or in the future.

It's really down to your appetite for risk. As for where you purchase your tickets in future it really doesn't matter. Just make sure you always have a valid ticket before boarding a traiadvise on what to reply with this

The principle here is that purchasing tickets isn't illegal but using them illegally is. Greater Anglia have conducted a data trawl that indicates a journey pattern that doesn't look right and have contacted you about it. The issue is can Greater Anglia link these journeys to you. There are two possible outcomes here:

1. You co-operate with Greater Anglia and 'fess up' to what you've done. They will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement. You won't be prosecuted and won't have a criminal record.

2. You say nothing. You aren't required to incriminate yourself. It's is unlikely (but not impossible) that Greater Anglia will have sufficient evidence to link the suspicious data pattern to you, to a standard of proof required to secure a conviction in the Magistrates Court. Tt is possible that Greater Anglia have CCTV or some other evidence that links you to the suspicious journeys.

If you co-operate then once the settlement is paid that is the end of the matter. If you decide to say nothing then it probably won't go anywhere but it might do, either now or in the future.

It's really down to your appetite for risk. As for where you purchase your tickets in future it really doesn't matter. Just make sure you always have a valid ticket before boarding a train.

I ignored and they sent across another email

Unfortunately, you have not responded to our previous e-mail unless we hear from you within the next 7 days your case will be passed over to our prosecutions department for processing.

Please be aware that if prosecuted, you will end up with a recordable record. Amongst other things, this can affect employment, both current and any in the future. It can also affect travel abroad, though this may depend on the country and its restrictions

Can you advise on how to respond to them and what to say please?

 

[AlterEgo]

Say, and do, nothing. There is no substance to that email.

Continue to ignore any and all correspondence and do not comment.

 

[tkc030765]

Say, and do, nothing. There is no substance to that email.

Continue to ignore any and all correspondence and do not comment.

and what if I do and then they'll take it to prosecution, what happens then?

 

[Mike395]

and what if I do and then they'll take it to prosecution, what happens then?

Post the letter they send if and when they do this. But at the moment, any reply risks incriminating you for more than the journeys they've got concrete evidence for, so stay quiet unless/until this happens.

 

[AlterEgo]

and what if I do and then they'll take it to prosecution, what happens then?

It's not going to happen because you must know they don't have enough evidence for that - that is the entire purpose of them contacting you so desperate for you to incriminate yourself.

 

[duffield]

It's not going to happen because you must know they don't have enough evidence for that - that is the entire purpose of them contacting you so desperate for you to incriminate yourself.

No, it's not the *entire* purpose. They know that it's quite possible nothing will happen as a direct result of this "fishing expedition" contact in many cases, and that a certain percentage of people will just not respond.

But the secondary purpose of this is to tell you that they have "marked your card" and so they expect that if nothing else, you will always buy the correct ticket in future, which is probably a fairly effective way of increasing future revenue.

 

[tkc030765]

No, it's not the *entire* purpose. They know that it's quite possible nothing will happen as a direct result of this "fishing expedition" contact in many cases, and that a certain percentage of people will just not respond.

But the secondary purpose of this is to tell you that they have "marked your card" and so they expect that if nothing else, you will always buy the correct ticket in future, which is probably a fairly effective way of increasing future revenue.

Noted, if they get back to me I’ll post the letter of what they say - I’m thinking do they have email bot that tells them if their emails have been opened???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

Post the letter they send if and when they do this. But at the moment, any reply risks incriminating you for more than the journeys they've got concrete evidence for, so stay quiet unless/until this happens.

Okay I will do thank you

 

[Wolfie]

I agree that this looks like a fishing expedition.

Personally l would be tempted, at least for a period, to buy all tickets in person at a station paying cash.

TOCs, for crime prevention purposes, have a legitimate reason to access data from all online ticket vendors. A pattern, if they can link the accounts (and use of the same payment card could do that), of sudden regular purchases of the "correct" ticket would confirm their suspicions albeit likely would be insufficient proof for a Court.

My suggestion might be overkill but....

 

[tkc030765]

I agree that this looks like a fishing expedition.

Personally l would be tempted, at least for a period, to buy all tickets in person at a station paying cash.

TOCs, for crime prevention purposes, have a legitimate reason to access data from all online ticket vendors. A pattern, if they can link the accounts (and use of the same payment card could do that), of sudden regular purchases of the "correct" ticket would confirm their suspicions albeit likely would be insufficient proof for a Court.

My suggestion might be overkill but....

I travel to work via train so will have to! - I have been using another site to buy for time being but if you think it’s better to pay cash I will !

 

[John R]

If you are buying the correct ticket going forward I see no benefit in changing how you buy it.

 

[tkc030765]

@Hadders @AlterEgo @Wolfie they’ve just sent another email:

“

Your case is due to leave this office today and be passed over to our prosecution services, if you would like to settle this case with us instead you need to reply to our e-mail by 1700 hours today.”

I really don’t want it to lead to this, can anyone advise? Should I reply or not?

 

[AlterEgo]

Only you can decide if you’re scared enough to tell on yourself, but my advice earlier in the thread still stands. It’s not in your interests to make any comment or reply. There’s no substance to that email.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you are buying the correct ticket going forward I see no benefit in changing how you buy it.

If there is a marked difference in purchasing pattern coincidentally just after receiving this email, you can imagine how it will look to the TOC.

(ETA) It may also arm them with sufficient information (i.e. the OP's true destination) to start asking more direct questions. At that stage 'no comment' becomes a bit more tricky and, as always, my advice would be not to lie.

It may be overkill but I think it is sensible advice to buy (the correct!!!) paper tickets at the ticket office in cash or, as an inferior second option, by card, to reduce any such paper trail.

I really don’t want it to lead to this, can anyone advise? Should I reply or not?

As the advice has been, it boils down to your risk appetite.

My view is that if the TOC haven't caught you in the act then they are unlikely to have any evidence.

The tone of the emails suggests that this is the case, as the emails are increasingly threatening in tone without actually asking you a direct question or offering anything substantive for you to comment upon.

My advice is the same as always: truthfully answer any direct questions that you are asked, but do not make any additional comments about questions you are not asked. No comment is usually the way to go. It's for the prosecutor to prove you were up to no good, not for you to prove you weren't.

 

[Hadders]

@Hadders @AlterEgo @Wolfie they’ve just sent another email:

“

Your case is due to leave this office today and be passed over to our prosecution services, if you would like to settle this case with us instead you need to reply to our e-mail by 1700 hours today.”

I really don’t want it to lead to this, can anyone advise? Should I reply or not?

As I said upthread it is about your appetite for risk.

If you want certainty then pay the settlement. It is unlikely that GA has sufficient evidence to prosecute but we cannot guarantee that.

If you say nothing then expect further threatening letters to be sent in the meantime, even if they don’t end up prosecuting.

 

[Haywain]

we guarantee that.

We cannot guarantee that!!

 

[Hadders]

We cannot guarantee that!!

Thanks! Post amended

 

[sauvage14]

@tkc030765 any updates on this?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

@tkc030765 any updates on this?

Hi @sauvage14 - welcome to the forum. I can't speak for the person who started this thread, but as they haven't been back for more than 3 months they probably won't be coming back - they may have settled their problem and decided to move on from it.

If you'd like us to help you with a rail problem then we ask you to start your own thread. That's because no two cases are ever exactly the same - and if we try to deal with more than one case in a thread it's very easy for all of us to get confused, which really doesn't help anyone.