RMT Strike (Avanti) February

[weeklycommuter]

So those catering staff can now cover train managers positions. Is that what you are suggesting?

They could be offered jobs as train managers as more train managers are clearly needed to end rest day working. Avanti clearly does not employ enough staff for the current service with catering and it is of no use to rail passengers if trains do not run because the staff needed are not available, whether because they are taking industrial action or because not enough volunteer for rest day working. Rail passengers want a reliable train service in which all timetabled trains run.

 

[dk1]

They could be offered jobs as train managers as more train managers are clearly needed to end rest day working.

I’ve heard it all now

 

[185143]

They could be offered jobs as train managers as more train managers are clearly needed to end rest day working.

And what about any catering staff who may not meet the higher medical standards for the TM grade?

 

[12LDA28C]

If the train operator no longer has to pay for catering staff they can spend the money saved on more Train Managers so they can deliver the full timetable with their Train Managers working contracted hours only. The train operator will then have no need to ask any Train Managers to work rest days and there will no industrial disputes over rest day working. Rail passengers will then be able to make the journeys they need to make as the train service will not be affected by industrial action over rest day working as is happening on 22, 23 and 29 December, just when people want to travel either side of Christmas.

This is just nonsense isn't it. You're suggesting that catering staff can be laid off at the drop of a hat (as if that won't itself lead to industrial action) and the money saved spent on recruiting and training up more Train Managers. Really? Recruitment of sufficient TMs shouldn't be dependent on arbitrarily sacking of other grades, should it?

Might it not be rather simpler in the short term to offer a better incentive for overtime and RDW so that the action around Christmas gets called off? I suspect that is what will happen anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

I’ve heard it all now

Did I miss Christmas and New Year? Is it April 1st already?

 

[dk1]

Did I miss Christmas and New Year? Is it April 1st already?

It is haha. Time absolutely flies when you read such comments.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

I know some don’t always understand exactly how things happen within the industry but some of what I am reading is just farcical.

 

[Egg Centric]

It is haha. Time absolutely flies when you read such comments.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

I know some don’t always understand exactly how things happen within the industry but some comments are just farcical.

It is crazy to me how screwed industrial relations are. Absolutely the RMT could be more reasonable. But on the other hand, anyone who, like me, might be "constitutionally" inclined towards being exasparated with bolshy staff needs to see rare (to the public) examples of management-staff communications in the West Worthing RAIB report. Particularly the Appendix:



Image shows various passive aggessive notices about bottles of urine written in a sarky tone, e.g:

Many notices have been produced about this particular issue and have fallen on deaf ears!....I shouldn't have to resort to asking or telling other adults to please stop this....Network Rail are considering the installation of a camera, I don't believe this action is necessary... do you?

If I were treated like this I'd be a bolshy staff member too! And there's plenty of other stories on this forum about staff being treated like crap. So they cannot be blamed.

 

[185143]

It is crazy to me how screwed industrial relations are. Absolutely the RMT could be more reasonable. But on the other hand, anyone who, like me, might be "constitutionally" inclined towards being exasparated with bolshy staff needs to see rare (to the public) examples of management-staff communications in the West Worthing RAIB report. Particularly the Appendix:

View attachment 170854

Image shows various passive aggessive notices about bottles of urine written in a sarky tone

If I were treated like this I'd be a bolshy staff member too! And there's plenty of other stories on this forum about staff being treated like crap. So they cannot be blamed.

That's just a pi** take!

 

[spp]

I’m trying to understand your logic there. Why would a union representing their members in a dispute consider the those things?

To keep public support?

I’ve always fully backed strike action over the past few years but shouldn’t strike action target most the interests of the decision makers (ie cost them £ and stop the wheels of commerce rolling which is what they care about). Striking on days a lot of places of work are closed anyway just seems to me like they’re targeting ordinary people trying to see family over the Christmas period. Losing support from me, added to the lack of notice.

Just cancelled my monthly donation to the RMT.

 

[dk1]

Just cancelled my monthly donation to the RMT.

I didn’t even know you could donate unless you were a member and I’ve been paying into various railway unions constantly since 1984.

 

[Donny85]

Out of curiosity, is this strike action linked to a ballot conducted within the last six months, or have the rules softened under Labour, allowing Avanti to agree to a shorter notice period and the use of e-ballots?

Notice period:
• In the UK, unions are required to give employers at least 14 days’ notice of strike action following a valid ballot. (as previously mentioned above)

• The strike notice for the first action date (22 December) was announced on 10 December. This is exactly 12 days’ notice, which falls short of the legal requirement unless Avanti West Coast agreed to a shorter period (minimum 7 days).

E-Ballots:
Under UK employment law, e-ballots are generally not lawful for industrial action unless specifically authorised. The law governing this is the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (TULRCA), which has strict requirements for how ballots must be conducted.

Key Legal Requirements for a Lawful Ballot

1. Postal Voting Requirement:
• Industrial action ballots must be conducted as a postal ballot under TULRCA.

2. Electronic Voting:
• E-balloting is not currently permitted for industrial action ballots, even though other types of union voting (such as for internal leadership elections) may allow it.

• Although there has been debate about modernising this rule to allow electronic voting, no legal changes have been implemented to permit e-ballots for strike action.

 

[spp]

I didn’t even know you could donate unless you were a member and I’ve been paying into various railway unions constantly since 1984.

National dispute fund, regular PayPal payments.

I may switch it back on, in principle I still support the action I just wish they’d target work days rather than weekends/holidays. Maybe then the powers that be would apply more pressure.

You think the chief execs old boys club who are driven round everywhere care if some peasants like may can’t see their family because of strikes? No chance, they’d care more if they thought disruption was ‘costing the economy’.

A union disproportionally targeting working class families instead of big business…..why thank you comrade!

 

[dk1]

National dispute fund, regular PayPal payments

Well theres something you learn everyday. I could never imagine doing that.

 

[43066]

It is crazy to me how screwed industrial relations are. Absolutely the RMT could be more reasonable. But on the other hand, anyone who, like me, might be "constitutionally" inclined towards being exasparated with bolshy staff needs to see rare (to the public) examples of management-staff communications in the West Worthing RAIB report. Particularly the Appendix:

View attachment 170854

Image shows various passive aggessive notices about bottles of urine written in a sarky tone

If I were treated like this I'd be a bolshy staff member too! And there's plenty of other stories on this forum about staff being treated like crap. So they cannot be blamed.

You’ve nailed it, in terms of how things work in this industry (to be fair GTR are worse than most).

To add insult to injury I believe this is where a driver was killed the other year, while taking a whizz, having exited the cab to do so…

Well theres something you learn everyday. I could never imagine doing that.

Me neither!

 

[Horizon22]

Do they really think this is a good plan? Especially since the Midland Main line is shut with buses going to Milton Keynes. How can this action be initiated by anyone who has a conscience. Shame on you RMT and Avanti TMs. I am also disgusted.

Whether or not you agree with the actual industrial action the whole point of it is to make an impact which this certainly would.

If a strike had limited or low impact then what would be the point.

 

[piers1234]

I note a 92% vote for action on an 81% turnout, which suggests some very angry Train Managers.

That's a very good turnout

 

[Horizon22]

Why indeed, maximum inconvenience to the travelling public so great result. Give themselves a good pat on the back and enjoy their time off.

As above. Any industrial action needs to make an impact to be worthwhile!

 

[piers1234]

As above. Any industrial action needs to make an impact to be worthwhile!

So is it a RD ban or strike? Or both still a bit confused

 

[12LDA28C]

So is it a RD ban or strike? Or both still a bit confused

According to the RMT website it is clearly described as 'strike action'.

Avanti train managers to strike after overwhelming rejection of rest day proposals

Train Managers at Avanti West Coast will take strike action after overwhelmingly rejecting the company’s inadequate proposals on rest day working arrangements.

www.rmt.org.uk

 

[spp]

According to the RMT website it is clearly described as 'strike action'.

Avanti train managers to strike after overwhelming rejection of rest day proposals

Train Managers at Avanti West Coast will take strike action after overwhelmingly rejecting the company’s inadequate proposals on rest day working arrangements.

www.rmt.org.uk

So why not 14 days notice?

 

[Horizon22]

So why not 14 days notice?

Legally they have to inform the operator within 14 days.

Whether Avanti/RMT have communicated it is a different matter. Perhaps there was last-ditch meetings to prevent it.

 

[scrapy]

Legally they have to inform the operator within 14 days.

Whether Avanti/RMT have communicated it is a different matter. Perhaps there was last-ditch meetings to prevent it.

Yes there is no requirement that strikes have to be communicated to the public 14 days before. The union have to give the operator 14 days notice. It is then the operators responsibility to inform customers.

Out of curiosity, is this strike action linked to a ballot conducted within the last six months, or have the rules softened under Labour, allowing Avanti to agree to a shorter notice period and the use of e-ballots?

It was a postal ballot that concluded on 28th November 2024. E-ballots are not permitted for industrial action.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

Is it a strike-not-strike with only a work to rule on the first part? This obviously negates the 14-day notice period. However, RMT and Avanti use the word 'strike' so...

Work to rule is still action short of a strike and requires 14 days notice.

 

[Starmill]

Work to rule is still action short of a strike and requires 14 days notice.

Only if wanting to rely on the lawful protection for industrial action.

 

[Horizon22]

Only if wanting to rely on the lawful protection for industrial action.

Well more that the operator / DfT can null and void the action.

 

[Clarence Yard]

If the train operator no longer has to pay for catering staff they can spend the money saved on more Train Managers so they can deliver the full timetable with their Train Managers working contracted hours only. The train operator will then have no need to ask any Train Managers to work rest days and there will no industrial disputes over rest day working. Rail passengers will then be able to make the journeys they need to make as the train service will not be affected by industrial action over rest day working as is happening on 22, 23 and 29 December, just when people want to travel either side of Christmas.

They don’t make those choices. The number of train managers to be employed is a DfT decision.

 

[Starmill]

Well more that the operator / DfT can null and void the action.

They can't really stop most working to rule though as it doesn't involve a breach of contract.

 

[Horizon22]

They can't really stop most working to rule though as it doesn't involve a breach of contract.

No of course, but it still industrial action and what it involves has to be declared.

 

[Tezza1978]

I'm sorry but as someone who largely supported the ongoing railstrikes prior to the agreements - this action seems purely targeted at families and normal working people and I cannot remotely support it. This has ruined plans for a night away in Glasgow with my 10 yr old son prior to Xmas. I recognise the issues with RDW agreements and that Sundays should be inside the working week, but calling strikes in the 2 days next to Xmas is cynical and deliberate in the extreme. Alienating public support right now is deeply stupid and unwise for the unions. No reason why the strikes couldnt have been called for January.

 

[Krokodil]

. I recognise the issues with RDW agreements and that Sundays should be inside the working week,

I'm pretty sure that Avanti TMs do have Sundays inside

 

[lordbusiness]

I fear this is only the beginning, waiting with baited breath for the next round of pay talks given what's just been offered to the public sector.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Thankfully I’m out of the country so won’t be affected, but I’d much rather have a train with no TM at all than a cancelled train.