First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[YorkRailFan]

BBC News is reporting that First will reinstate the X84 from February (no specific date given yet):

First Bus said the X84 service between Otley, Ilkley and Leeds city centre would be reintroduced in February.

The route was pulled in October and replaced by alternative services in December, with an online petition against the change signed by more than 3,000 people.

Sarah Carmody, from Adel, who launched the petition, said she was "delighted that the voices of people have been listened to."

'Early Christmas present'
Katie White, MP for Leeds North West, who also campaigned against the change said she had heard "heart-breaking stories and a lot of frustration" from constituents about the impact of the route being scrapped.

"People were coming to us saying they were late for school, they were late for hospital appointments, they were struggling to make sure that they got to work in time," she said.It was completely unreliable and it wasn't working," she added.

She described news the X84 would be reinstated, with additional weekday services at peak times, as "an early Christmas present".However, the changes mean Pool-in-Wharfedale, which had been included on the replacement services, will no longer have a direct service to Leeds city centre.

White said: "What we need to do is make sure that we have a bus service that works for people across the whole of Leeds north-west, and we will be working with Tracy Brabin to do that.

"It's not the end of the bus service story and we will continue to work to make sure that we get the right services for constituents."

A spokesperson for First Bus said: "This decision is the result of an extensive review and builds on the immediate actions we took to improve journeys on the existing 25/26 service which replaced the X84.

"We will introduce further resources from January 2025 to support reliability on the overall Headingley corridor which should also benefit customers travelling from Otley."

Leeds to Ilkley X84 service to be reinstated following backlash - BBC News

First Bus say the X84 bus, which was axed in October, will be reintroduced in February.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good news for those in Ilkely, Otley and Leeds, hopefully something can be sorted for those in Poole.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Presumably the weekend of 22/23 February looking at the list of service change dates on the Metro website

 

[Deerfold]

This is a further blow to what has been a miserable year for local bus passengers - luckily I rarely have need to use them any more. Odd that First's own website still mentions the 590 as being affected, despite it only running Rochdale to Todmorden these days:


https://www.firstbus.co.uk/west-yorkshire/news-and-service-updates/updates/services-590591592

There's a few places with this information, but despite the extremely long diversion, no updated timetables.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2024 ==

Good news for those in Ilkely, Otley and Leeds, hopefully something can be sorted for those in Poole.

I'd reserve judgment on that until the timetable is available. I doubt anything will be done for a replacement Pool to Leeds link - these have come and gone several times over the years.

 

[TUC]

This is a further blow to what has been a miserable year for local bus passengers - luckily I rarely have need to use them any more. Odd that First's own website still mentions the 590 as being affected, despite it only running Rochdale to Todmorden these days:


https://www.firstbus.co.uk/west-yorkshire/news-and-service-updates/updates/services-590591592

Still no actual timetables, as far as I can see, several days into the incident which is woeful.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Still no actual timetables, as far as I can see, several days into the incident which is woeful.

First's app is no help either, the routes are still showing as normal on the map. Buses that are off-route on the diversion via Littleborough don't appear to show at all, looking at the current display.

I suppose the only redeeming feature is that the recent move to an all single-deck fleet at Todmorden has made this diversion much easier to implement, as there is a low bridge on the A58 at Littleborough.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Fare changes are coming from 1 January at First York.

Fares

As you may know, the UK Government has announced a new £3 flat fare cap in England – which means some of our fares will be changing from 1st January 2025. We’re also simplifying the way we charge our customers to make it fairer for everyone. You’ll now only be charged for how far you’ve...

www.firstbus.co.uk

Child Day, and Child 5 Day tickets will remain the same price:

Any tickets not referenced below, including our FirstDay Child ticket (£2.80) and First 5 Day Child ticket (£9.00), will not be changing in price.


FirstWeek Child was £10.50 now £11.00

Changes to 16-18 fares:

FirstWeek 16-18 was £16.50 now £17.00
FirstMonth 16-18 was £65.00 now £67.00

Student tickets will increase in price:

FirstDay Student was £4.30 now £4.50
FirstWeek Student was £17.00 now £18.00
FirstMonth Student was £65.00 now £70.00

Changes to Tap On/Tap Off capping

1 day was £4.80 now £6.00
2 days was £9.60 now £11.80
3 days was £13.50 now £16.80
4 days was £16.00 now £19.80
5 days was £18.00 now £22.00
6 days was £19.00 now £23.00
7 days was £20.00 now £24.00

Changes to Adult fares:

Adult Single£1.50 (available via TOTO only)No change
£2.00£2.00 (cash/contactless/TOTO)
£2.60 (cash/contactless/TOTO)
£3.00 (cash/contactless/TOTO/First Bus app)
Dependent on distance travelled
Adult NHS Single was £1.00 now £1.50
Adult Return was £4.00 (on bus only) now Removed
FirstDay Adult was £4.80 now £6.00
FirstDay Group was £11.00 now £13.00
Bundle tickets3 in 5
5 in 7
6 in 20
10 in 20
12 in 30Removed
FirstWeek Adult was £20.00 now £24.00
FirstMonth Adult was £72.00 now £85.00

What is the distance for the different TOTO fares? Its always been unclear whether you will pay £1.50 or £2, but now with 4 different fares for TOTO, what are the distances for each fare? Or is First just expecting people to check using the Journey Planner on their website/app?

 

[stevieinselby]

Or is First just expecting people to check using the Journey Planner on their website/app?

No, they aren't expecting people to check at all, just to tap their card and not think about how much each individual journey costs.

Most bus companies have never published a fares table on their websites or given passengers any other easy way to check the single/return fare for a particular journey. Sure, if you're buying a ticket then the driver tells you the fare before you make the payment, but seriously, how many people have been stood in the doorway of the bus and then decided not to travel after finding out how much it costs?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

What is the distance for the different TOTO fares? Its always been unclear whether you will pay £1.50 or £2, but now with 4 different fares for TOTO, what are the distances for each fare? Or is First just expecting people to check using the Journey Planner on their website/app?

No, they aren't expecting people to check at all, just to tap their card and not think about how much each individual journey costs.

Most bus companies have never published a fares table on their websites or given passengers any other easy way to check the single/return fare for a particular journey. Sure, if you're buying a ticket then the driver tells you the fare before you make the payment, but seriously, how many people have been stood in the doorway of the bus and then decided not to travel after finding out how much it costs?

Bus companies do seem to have this thing for keeping single fares secret. I guess we are all too dumbed down now to understand a good old fashioned triangular fares table!

I haven't checked this specific operator, nor my local operator for beyond 31 December, but by finding the route on bustimes.org and adding /fares to the end of the address bar, that usually does the trick. It works for First Potteries who apply the 'you can always ask us' approach. Whether the distance related fare applied for a real journey matches the fare-stage based fares I don't know beyond the relatively few trips I make. If I understand it correctly the fare tables are just there as 'shadow fares' for calculation / reimbursement of ENCTS or the £2 fare cap.

Example:

6A - Hanley, Bus Stn [F] - Bly' B, Elmwood Rd

First Potteries

bustimes.org

Fares – 6A - Hanley, Bus Stn [F] - Bly' B, Elmwood Rd – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

 

[dodecahedron67]

£6 for a day ticket is extortionate in York, given that's not even the AllYork one

 

[Seehof]

A neighbour has a number of £2 tickets in his First Bus (York) wallet which suddenly say they cannot be used after 28th December when up until recently they were valid a year. Can he get a refund on them now? He is in Portugal until 2nd January!
Having arthritis in his hands he will dread having to tap twice using the bus now.

 

[stevieinselby]

£6 for a day ticket is extortionate in York, given that's not even the AllYork one

As the price for a FirstDay is currently the same as for an All York ticket (with the only benefit over All York is that you can use it to/from Stamford Bridge), presumably that means that the All York is going up to £6, which does seem like something of a rip-off.

Although interestingly, All York is cheaper now (£4.80) than it was from 2020 to 2022 (£4.90). Averaged over 5 years, it is only a 4% annual increase from £4.90 in 2020 to £6.00 in 2025.

 

[greyman42]

£6 for a day ticket is extortionate in York, given that's not even the AllYork one

Nothing is cheap in York.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As the price for a FirstDay is currently the same as for an All York ticket (with the only benefit over All York is that you can use it to/from Stamford Bridge), presumably that means that the All York is going up to £6, which does seem like something of a rip-off.

Although interestingly, All York is cheaper now (£4.80) than it was from 2020 to 2022 (£4.90). Averaged over 5 years, it is only a 4% annual increase from £4.90 in 2020 to £6.00 in 2025.

Travelling round all day for £6 seems reasonable - in town, out the other side, return later = 4 trips @ £1.50 each. However, if it is a simple trip to the supermarket and back for £6.00 that does feel steep, but is also the equivalent of just two single trips at £3.00 under the January 2025 cap.

Again the infrequent traveller may feel penalised compared to the much reduced cost per trip of a daily, weekly etc pass buyer.

 

[Deerfold]

As the price for a FirstDay is currently the same as for an All York ticket (with the only benefit over All York is that you can use it to/from Stamford Bridge), presumably that means that the All York is going up to £6, which does seem like something of a rip-off.

Although interestingly, All York is cheaper now (£4.80) than it was from 2020 to 2022 (£4.90). Averaged over 5 years, it is only a 4% annual increase from £4.90 in 2020 to £6.00 in 2025.

In West Yorkshire, the First Day ticket is the same price as the all-operator ticket which causes lots of people problems if they don't realise when purchasing. Of course other operators don't want to take them when they don't get a cut of the purchase price.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The A646 closure between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge is being extended until January 6th, the BBC has reported:

• • 23 December 2024

The closure of a busy road between two West Yorkshire market towns due to emergency repairs to a damaged sewer will continue into the new year, drivers have been warned.
The A646 Halifax Road between Hebden Bridge and Todmorden has been closed in both directions at the junction with Stony Lane, at Charlestown, since 16 December.
A spokesperson for Yorkshire Water and Calderdale Council said the closure of that stretch of road would now remain in place until 6 January, rather than 24 December as originally thought.
"Unfortunately, the repair is very complex, and while we have been undertaking work, we have found a number of further complexities," they said.
More damage than expected to the council-owned culvert had been discovered, as well as an unmapped council-owned surface water sewer, while further work also needed on the damaged sewer, according to the spokesperson.

'Official diversion'​

While Calderdale Council and Yorkshire Water were both "working closely to minimise disruption as much as possible", the road would not be reopened as planned on Christmas Eve, the spokesperson said.
"Teams will be working on-site 07:00 to 20:00 GMT daily, but will not be working on Christmas Day and Boxing Day to reduce disruption to residents living close to the repair," they added.
"Further Yorkshire Water work will be required in the future, but this will be done under two-way traffic lights.
"A shuttle bus is operating in the area to minimise the impact on residents nearby, but the diversion is expected to continue to cause disruption.
"Please consider your route before you travel and adhere to the official diversion. Thank you for your patience while we work."

https://www.bbbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y8qn49elwo

 

[D6130]

The A646 closure between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge is being extended until January 6th, the BBC has reported:

https://www.bbbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y8qn49elwo

A TLC bus driver told me last night that they've been told that the road is unlikely to reopen before the end of January.

 

[Deerfold]

The A646 closure between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge is being extended until January 6th, the BBC has reported:

https://www.bbbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y8qn49elwo

And first still haven't released timetables for the diverted routes.
On Sunday Metro says Halifax to Hebden bridge would be hourly from 0630, which is 90 minutes earlier than buses normally run at half the normal frequency. There were no timetables published, though and a request on Twitter seemed to confuse them.

They followed up by telling me buses would run as close as possible to the normal timetable, which makes no sense.

 

[D6130]

Halifax to Jensen bridge

Presumably that should read Halifax to Hebden Bridge?

 

[Deerfold]

Presumably that should read Halifax to Hebden Bridge?

It should. Autocarrot running riot. I've corrected my post.

 

[Andyh82]

As is the norm for Boxing Day only Bramley and Huddersfield depots were open

Bramley ran their own routes, plus those from Hunslet Park and Bradford. No electric buses were used on Bradford routes.

Huddersfield ran their own routes plus a skeleton selection of routes in Halifax. Halifax routes seemed to be entirely Streetlite operated including the 508 & 576

 

[D6130]

As is the norm for Boxing Day only Bramley and Huddersfield depots were open

Bramley ran their own routes, plus those from Hunslet Park and Bradford. No electric buses were used on Bradford routes.

Huddersfield ran their own routes plus a skeleton selection of routes in Halifax. Halifax routes seemed to be entirely Streetlite operated including the 508 & 576

If the bustimes.org map is to be believed, a 508 appeared in Hebden Bridge yesterday afternoon. That must be a first! perhaps it was running a 591 or 593 and the driver forgot to change the route number in the ticket machine on departure from Halifax. unfortunately I wasn't in town at the time to check it out.

 

[Deerfold]

If the bustimes.org map is to be believed, a 508 appeared in Hebden Bridge yesterday afternoon. That must be a first! perhaps it was running a 591 or 593 and the driver forgot to change the route number in the ticket machine on departure from Halifax. unfortunately I wasn't in town at the time to check it out.

It could have been a 591. I don't think there were any 593s yesterday, though First are reluctant to provide timetables for anything at the moment through Hebden Bridge.

x.com

x.com

 

[JRT]

If the bustimes.org map is to be believed, a 508 appeared in Hebden Bridge yesterday afternoon. That must be a first! perhaps it was running a 591 or 593 and the driver forgot to change the route number in the ticket machine on departure from Halifax. unfortunately I wasn't in town at the time to check it out.

Yes, the 508s were interworking at Halifax to run through to Hebden Bridge as a 591.
Information courtesy of Google maps ("remain on board")

 

[D6130]

Yes, the 508s were interworking at Halifax to run through to Hebden Bridge as a 591.
Information courtesy of Google maps ("remain on board")

Thanks. I thought it may have been something like that.

 

[Seehof]

My neighbour’s Transdev bus fare (a single journey) on their route 24 here in York has gone up from £1.60 to £3.00. (£6 return). So he is now proposing to drive about a mile to a First P&R site (Poppleton Bar or Askham Bar) passing the Transdev bus stop that he normally uses. He tells me he will pay £3.80 return with First and can park there for free! I cannot believe this is true!!

 

[stevieinselby]

My neighbour’s Transdev bus fare (a single journey) on their route 24 here in York has gone up from £1.60 to £3.00. (£6 return). So he is now proposing to drive about a mile to a First P&R site (Poppleton Bar or Askham Bar) passing the Transdev bus stop that he normally uses. He tells me he will pay £3.80 return with First and can park there for free! I cannot believe this is true!!

Park & Ride fares have always been cheaper than the regular suburban services, working on the basis that most residents aren't going to be so petty that they waste loads of time and petrol driving in the wrong direction to a P&R site just to save a few pence on the fare. By my reckoning, it will take him about 15 minutes longer each way, and at least 60p in driving costs, so he's wasting half an hour out of his day to save £1.60, which is frankly pathetic. If he's that worried about every last penny, he could walk into town in not much more time than that and it would be free.

Unfortunately with both Transdev and First showing out-of-date fare tables on bustimes, it isn't possible to check what the fares should be, and whether your neighbour would save any money by just walking to the main road (it might be a £2.60 single on First, or it might be the full £3.00, difficult to tell).

 

[Seehof]

Thank you. My opinion exactly!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2025 ==

Does anybody know what the fare is on York’s 1 from Acomb shops to the station and the Theatre Royal? Just returned from a coffee shop in Acomb and never in my 25 years of living here have I ever heard people so worked up and critical about the fares. It is like it is the last straw for some with all these other price increases.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Noticed a Kite has had the new First logo applied on the side of it, in place of the "York Electric" branding. Will this apply to all vehicles at York and is this the end of the "York Electric" branding?

 

[Roilshead]

Noticed a Kite has had the new First logo applied on the side of it, in place of the "York Electric" branding. Will this apply to all vehicles at York and is this the end of the "York Electric" branding?

Ticket machines in Leeds now programmed with the new logo and font, and new ticket rolls with the same steadily appearing.

 

[Deerfold]

First seem not to have produced new timetables for the Calderdale 591/2/3 despite it being 4 weeks since the lengthy diversion was introduced. The 591/2 are regularly running more than 30 minutes from the advertised timetable on the 591/2. Today Metro have told me the 593 will run as and when First have an available driver and First have told me they're withdrawing the 593 rather than the extended timetable (with no actual times) that Metro are advertising on Sundays.

x.com

x.com

metrotravelnews
@MetroTravelNews


I have spoken to First Halifax and they are unable to run the 593 to a Timetable at the moment and can only advise that they will run buses when they have a driver available

x.com

x.com

First West Yorks
@FirstWestYorks
Morning Nathan! Checking for you now, I can see that todays service has very much stuck to the stated timetable, which can be found here >> https://bustimes.org/services/593-halifax-bus-station-calder-high-school… I have checked thoroughly, and can confirm Sunday service on the 593 has been withdrawn. (1/2)

x.com

x.com

First West Yorks
@FirstWestYorks


The timetable that currently stands will still be running to the timing points published, we will just be missing the point where the road is closed, and this is Mytholmroyd. (2/3) -Ellice

I was looking for timetables for the 591/2 on their diversion and connections on the 593. They don't seem to know where the diversion is.

https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/a646-halifax-road-charlestown/

A646 Halifax Road, Charlestown closed due to emergency roadworks until Tuesday 7 January

Updated: 16 December 2024​

This page is updated regularly, but this date never changes

Services 591 and 592 are diverting between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge via Walsden, Littleborough, the A58 road by Blackstone Edge Reservoir, Turvin Road, Blackstone Edge Road, Cragg Road and Burnley Road.
Services will be running between Burnley and Hebden Bridge only whilst the road is closed.
A Shuttle Bus service will operate Monday-Saturday, 0900-1700, between Todmorden Bus Station (Stand D) and the closure point, leaving Todmorden at **15 & **45.
Through passengers to and from Halifax will have to connect with service 593 in Hebden Bridge.
On Sundays a 593 service will operate between Halifax and Hebden Bridge between approximately 0600 - 2300.

Looking at bustimes, some buses from Burnley are terminating in Todmorden, some in Hebden Bridge and some going beyond Hebden Bridge.