First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[Seehof]

In York today with family (Saturday 11th). There are at least 3 York Pullman diesels instead of electrics. The battery bus on the 9, we have been on was freezing! The 1 we waited for earlier never turned up and seemed to be stuck in Chapelfirlds! Embarrassing when you have car orientated family with you!

 

[greyman42]

In York today with family (Saturday 11th). There are at least 3 York Pullman diesels instead of electrics. The battery bus on the 9, we have been on was freezing! The 1 we waited for earlier never turned up and seemed to be stuck in Chapelfirlds! Embarrassing when you have car orientated family with you!

Their have been some Pullmans on hire for the last few days.

 

[Seehof]

There are at least 4 today! So what is wrong with the “Electrics”?

 

[dodecahedron67]

From a driver at FY “Electroliners freezing their handbrakes, Versas being freezing, and all batteries are doing slam dunk”

 

[Seehof]

Thank you. I guessed as much.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The A646 closure and associated diversion of the 591/2 is to continue for at least another two weeks:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8d9pd0n95ro

A major road between two West Yorkshire towns is to remain closed for another two weeks due to "further complications" and recent extreme weather.

The A646 Halifax Road near Hebden Bridge was closed on December 13 after a sewer collapsed and was set to reopen on January 13.

In a joint statement, Calderdale Council and Yorkshire Water said the road would remain closed until at least January 27.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I doubt anything will be done for a replacement Pool to Leeds link - these have come and gone several times over the years.

The issue with the X84 is that no matter what is done there will be somewhere that'll lose out.

One solution could be for a reintoduction of a 784 that could run limited stop to West Park, then all stops (including running via Bramhope village, Pool and Burley-in-Wharfedale) to Ilkley (or even Skipton) with the X84 running limilted stop on the faster bits avoiding Bramhope village, Pool and Burley-in-Wharfedale.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2025 ==

First seem not to have produced new timetables for the Calderdale 591/2/3 despite it being 4 weeks since the lengthy diversion was introduced. The 591/2 are regularly running more than 30 minutes from the advertised timetable on the 591/2. Today Metro have told me the 593 will run as and when First have an available driver and First have told me they're withdrawing the 593 rather than the extended timetable (with no actual times) that Metro are advertising on Sundays.

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Seems a mess in Hebden Bridge with passengers boarding what they think is a bus to Halifax, turns out to be a bus to Todmorden/Burnley and vice-versa. On Boxing Day certain buses had "591 Mythom" on the destination blind which some people boarding at Halifax thought was terminating at Mythomroyd, maybe having "Turning Circle" added underneath or better still "Hebden Bridge / Eaves" would've cleared it up a bit.

Speaking of which there's plenty of yellow diversion signs but zero posters placed at main bus stops explaining the issue, quite poor from both First's and Metro's end. I'm suprised that Hebden Royd parish council haven't stuck their oar in and had a crack at providing some information given that the issue is in their local area.

 

[Deerfold]

The issue with the X84 is that no matter what is done there will be somewhere that'll lose out.

One solution could be for a reintoduction of a 784 that could run limited stop to West Park, then all stops (including running via Bramhope village, Pool and Burley-in-Wharfedale) to Ilkley (or even Skipton) with the X84 running limilted stop on the faster bits avoiding Bramhope village, Pool and Burley-in-Wharfedale.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2025 ==


Seems a mess in Hebden Bridge with passengers boarding what they think is a bus to Halifax, turns out to be a bus to Todmorden/Burnley and vice-versa. On Boxing Day certain buses had "591 Mythom" on the destination blind which some people boarding at Halifax thought was terminating at Mythomroyd, maybe having "Turning Circle" added underneath or better still "Hebden Bridge / Eaves" would've cleared it up a bit.

Speaking of which there's plenty of yellow diversion signs but zero posters placed at main bus stops explaining the issue, quite poor from both First's and Metro's end. I'm suprised that Hebden Royd parish council haven't stuck their oar in and had a crack at providing some information given that the issue is in their local area.

I've asked several times if First have produced timetables for what they're trying to do but have been told they're just trying to follow normal timetables. Looking at where buses terminate this is clearly not what's happening at all.

First have told me they're not running 593s on Sundays at all, whilst Metro advertise it's running extended hours (but with no frequency mentioned). When I've asked which is true I've received silence.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The A646 between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge reopened at 0600 this morning, diversions on 591/2 no longer required.

 

[asw22]

First Bradford 617 618 620 seem to have appalling reliability issues, especially since September. Given that these run past a very busy hospital (BRI), and if they turn up are very busy, why don't first bus concentrate on making them more reliable rather than trying to drive passengers away.
I've lost count of the number of times I've walked between BRI and Manningham lane or Thornton road to pick up a more reliable service, which I couldn't do if I was ill.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Upcoming service changes at First West Yorkshire have been announced from 23rd February, including the X84 being reinstated:

22: The route between Leeds Bus Station and Albion Street will change; the service will now run directly via The Headrow, serving Headrow H for journeys to the bus station and Headrow E for journeys to Leeds Beckett Headingley campus. Bus stops at Victoria P, Corn Exchange and City Square will no longer be served.
Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service.
23: Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service.
24: Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service.
25: This service will now operate between Leeds Bus Station and Lawnswood School only, no longer serving Pool in Wharfedale, Otley or Ilkley. Service will run Monday - Friday only, every 30 minutes during the daytime.
Services 22, 23, 24 and 25 will co-ordinate to provide a service every 5 minutes between Albion Street and Headingley Arndale during Monday - Friday daytime. Saturday daytime will be every 7/8 minutes, and Sunday daytime every 10 minutes.
26: Service will be withdrawn and replaced by the X84.
27: Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service.
Monday - Saturday, buses will run every 40 minutes. Evenings and Sundays, buses will run every hour.
28: The route between Leeds Bus Station and Albion Street will change; the service will now run directly via The Headrow, serving Headrow H for journeys to the bus station and Headrow E for journeys to Leeds Beckett Headingley campus. Bus stops at Victoria P, Corn Exchange and City Square will no longer be served.
Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service. Monday - Saturday daytime, buses will run every 40 minutes. Evenings and Sundays, buses will run every hour.
X84: This service will be re-instated to run between Leeds, Otley and Ilkley. Services towards Ilkley will be boarding only (no disembarking) between Leeds City Centre and Otley Old Road. Service towards Leeds will be disembarking only (no boarding) between Weetwood Police Station and Leeds City Centre. Monday - Saturday daytime, buses will run every 40 minutes. Sunday daytime, buses will run every hour, and evenings, every 65-75 minutes.
33: Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service. The route will be extended with buses now terminating at Guiseley White Cross (Northbound bus stop) and commencing at Guiseley White Cross (Southbound bus stop). All bus stops on Otley Road between Guiseley Morrisons and White Cross will be served.
34: Minor timetable changes to improve punctuality and reliability of the service.

Changes from 23rd Feb

From Sunday 23rd February, we're making changes across Leeds to improve the reliability of services and address customer feedback. You can find a summary of the changes below:

www.firstbus.co.uk

Positive to see that First has listened to feedback, especially when it came to the X84 being replaced by the 25/26.

 

[Steve440]

Upcoming service changes at First West Yorkshire have been announced from 23rd February, including the X84 being reinstated:

Changes from 23rd Feb

From Sunday 23rd February, we're making changes across Leeds to improve the reliability of services and address customer feedback. You can find a summary of the changes below:

www.firstbus.co.uk

Positive to see that First has listened to feedback, especially when it came to the X84 being replaced by the 25/26.

The damage has already been done. I know people who will no longer use the bus because of the shambles with the X84.

 

[D6130]

Are there any improvements planned for the First Calderdale 590/591/592/593 routes? They couldn't get much worse than they are now!

 

[John HG1]

Upcoming service changes at First West Yorkshire have been announced from 23rd February, including the X84 being reinstated:

Changes from 23rd Feb

From Sunday 23rd February, we're making changes across Leeds to improve the reliability of services and address customer feedback. You can find a summary of the changes below:

www.firstbus.co.uk

Positive to see that First has listened to feedback, especially when it came to the X84 being replaced by the 25/26.

Good to see the X84 back, but a 40 minute frequency?!! Is that designed to make it un memorable, unusable and subsequently withdraw-able?

 

[stevieinselby]

Good to see the X84 back, but a 40 minute frequency?!! Is that designed to make it un memorable, unusable and subsequently withdraw-able?

Cost-saving combined with stubbornness. The current 25/26 timetable needs 7 buses to run a 30-minute frequency. First are refusing to add extra resource into the corridor, and because they are adding a 30-minute frequency 25 between Leeds and Lawnswood (albeit only on weekdays) that needs 2 buses, that only leaves 5 to run the X84, which means they can only run a 40-minute frequency.

Of course, they could afford to retain the 30-minute frequency on Saturdays without it costing any more buses, as they aren't running the 25 ... and has anyone spotted that the Sunday service is dropping from every 30 minutes now to only hourly on the X84?

 

[Steve440]

Good to see the X84 back, but a 40 minute frequency?!! Is that designed to make it un memorable, unusable and subsequently withdraw-able?

Yes of course it is. Bring on franchising.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I'm not sure that it was mentioned here, but the strike action at First Huddersfield due to start on Monday has been postponed after First put forward a new pay deal, which the union is recommending members to accept.

 

[Ben427]

Does anyone know why single decker buses are increasingly turning up on the 33/34 bus route in Leeds? It's an extremely busy route and I'm at a loss where the doubles have gone, to be be replaced by tired, old and tatty single deckers.

 

[Kieran1990]

Does anyone know why single decker buses are increasingly turning up on the 33/34 bus route in Leeds? It's an extremely busy route and I'm at a loss where the doubles have gone, to be be replaced by tired, old and tatty single deckers.

Utter madness isn’t it. I avoid the 33 about 8:20 from horsforth as it’s always a single and rammed

In the evening rush I think 3 are regularly timetabled one after another between 5-6pm

 

[Ben427]

Utter madness isn’t it. I avoid the 33 about 8:20 from horsforth as it’s always a single and rammed

In the evening rush I think 3 are regularly timetabled one after another between 5-6pm

The only thing more infuriating is the identical template responses from First which don't answer the complaint about it

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure why but A646 Halifax Road at Charlestown is closed again at the moment until 06:00 24/2.

Diversion for 591 & 592s is same as last time and only running between Burnley, Todmordon and Hebden Bridge.

 

[Deerfold]

Not to sure why but A646 Halifax Road at Charlestown is closed again at the moment until 06:00 24/2.

Diversion for 591 & 592s is same as last time and only running between Burnley, Todmordon and Hebden Bridge.

With the actual expected timetables a secret again (Last time Metro told me all buses were running through to Halfax).

 

[D6130]

Not to sure why but A646 Halifax Road at Charlestown is closed again at the moment until 06:00 24/2.

Diversion for 591 & 592s is same as last time and only running between Burnley, Todmordon and Hebden Bridge.

Another collapsed culvert or sewer! If successive governments will insist on allowing 44 tonne trucks and hundreds of heavily-loaded courier and supermarket delivery vans to charge up and down on what is essentially unmaintained Victorian road infrastructure, these sort of problems are going to become increasingly frequent....not only here, but also all over the country.

 

[YorkRailFan]

First has announced changes to their Leeman Road services (10L/59) from 21 March, due to a new road being constructed:

From Friday 21st March, we're making some route changes to services 10L and 59 in York as a result of the upcoming closure of part of Leeman Road. The changes listed below will be permanent.

ServiceChange
10L and 59 (Poppleton Park & Ride) towards York City Centre
Stops no longer served:
Carleton Street
National Railway Museum (West Entrance)

New stops served:
Leeman Road West
Park Street
Cinder Street
National Railway Museum

10L and 59 (Poppleton Park & Ride) towards Poppleton
Stops no longer served:
National Railway Museum (Main Entrance)
National Railway Museum (Car Park)
Carleton Street

New stops served:
National Railway Museum
Cinder Street
Park Street
Leeman Road West

Changes from 21st March

From Friday 21st March, we're making some route changes to services 10L and 59 in York as a result of the upcoming closure of part of Leeman Road. The changes listed below will be permanent.

www.firstbus.co.uk

First has published a map of the new route and stops:

Map of new route for services 10L and 59 in the Leeman Road area. Green dots represent the new stops services will use from 21 March, and the red dots represent the bus stops services currently use.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2025 ==

Fare changes are coming to York Park & Ride services from 30th March:

Sunday 30 March
First York and City of York Council have announced a change to fares on the Park and Ride network, which they operate in partnership. The new prices are effective from Sunday 30 March 2025.

The changes follow an annual review and will see Adult returns bought on the day or with muti-trip packages and those for concessionary pass holders rise by 10p:

The concessionary fare (for older/disabled bus pass holders boarding at any P&R site) will increase to £1.40
A day return for adults will rise to £3.90
Ticket bundles for trips over five, 10 and 20 days will make the return journey £3.50
A Park and Ride weekly ticket will rise by 40p to £15.60
A child return fare for children travelling alone will increase by 5p to £1.95
Three children aged 16 and under can still travel free with an adult

Fares changes announced for York Park and Ride | First Bus North England News

New fares effective from Sunday 30 March

news-ne.firstbus.co.uk

An adult return being £3.90 is honestly great when compared with other services which cost £6 return for the journeys from bus stops near the Park & Ride facilities. Say one uses Askham Bar, a return journey on the 3 will rise to £3.90 for an adult, whilst an adult return on Say Coastliner from a nearby bus stop like York College is £6. Coupled with the higher frequency on Park & Ride services, its still good value in my opinion.

 

[tsyxa]

Noticed a Kite has had the new First logo applied on the side of it, in place of the "York Electric" branding. Will this apply to all vehicles at York and is this the end of the "York Electric" branding?

Did anyone know the answer to this? I had the same question

 

[Mollman]

Did anyone know the answer to this? I had the same question

First seem to be getting rid of any local identity, including operator names on the side of the bus, unless there is a requirement to have one (Solent, Westbus and Leicester seem to be the three exceptions). Hopefully they will manage to keep the Uni version of the livery.

 

[Seehof]

York P&R. With an ENCTS pass if you are travelling on routes 7 & 9 from town you get a free ticket for the return journey. Without it you would have to pay the ENCTS pass concessionary fare from the actual P&R sites. My question is should you show your free ticket to the driver or should you do that and swipe on as well? Different drivers seem to require you to do different things. Surely, First York lose money if you do not swipe on as well.
I have actually been on a bus recently from the Vangarde where everybody just got on without driver intervention as they had obviously bought tickets from the kiosk. The gentleman in the kiosk was very proactive and kept coming to the pavement outside saying you could get tickets in the kiosk. However, last minute passengers just got on and had a free ride! They were not deliberating fare evading they just did not know what the procedure was especially as everybody was just getting on and seemingly not paying any fare!

 

[noddingdonkey]

I had the relatively rare experience of First's revenue protection team boarding my bus a few mornings ago. I explained that I had tapped on, and showed him my card which does not have the card number printed on it. He quickly looked at something which I assumed had been produced by the ticket machine, and was happy that my fare was in order.

Did he actually check anything?

 

[_toommm_]

I had the relatively rare experience of First's revenue protection team boarding my bus a few mornings ago. I explained that I had tapped on, and showed him my card which does not have the card number printed on it. He quickly looked at something which I assumed had been produced by the ticket machine, and was happy that my fare was in order.

Did he actually check anything?

They should take the last four digits of the card - or the last four digits of the virtual card number if using Apple Pay/Google Pay/a numberless card such as Chase, and check it against accepted cards which is printed off from the ticket machine.

In reality, my experience of having quite a few checks over the past month, is that they get bombarded with card numbers, and don't always fully check the card numbers and don't come back and mark you off. That of course isn't a bad thing per se for the passenger as they're not being penalty fared, but it also isn't a very efficient way for them to check in the absence of a device that could check whether the card has been accepted like TfL use.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Interesting. Mine is a Chase card which doesn't have the number printed on it, and scans as a different number to the one shown in the app.