Storm Eowyn Disruption - 24/1/25

[Horizon22]

Redistribute duties. Every other job in the country will be able to prioritise things. Nothing is more important that helping people out of a red warning.

This doesn't solve anything. There are only so many available trained staff who can replan a timetable - limiting disastorus impacts like leaving a train on the running line with no driver - and only so many trained staff for all the customer information duties and systems that need updated "Redistributing duties" can't help if other staff can't actually do the extra tasks required. Sure you might be able to get a manager or two in to help, but that's about it.

 

[Cross City]

They are saying "DO NOT TRAVEL". That's about as strong an instruction as possible,

As i've already said do not travel doesn't mean you cannot travel. Some people will still think they can take their chances despite the do not travel advice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As i've already said do not travel doesn't mean you cannot travel.

It's not in the TOC's gift to prevent people leaving their homes. The TOCs where no trains will be running have said so.

 

[Cross City]

This doesn't solve anything. There are only so many available trained staff who can replan a timetable - limiting disastorus impacts like leaving a train on the running line with no driver - and only so many trained staff for all the customer information insights. "Redistributing duties" can't help if other staff can't actually do the extra tasks required.

Sorry but it's just excuses. Getting info to the people who use your service is the most important thing.

 

[GusB]

It's not a question of who knows better, it's that the choice of whether to travel or not should always be the customer's, not the TOC's. If they've advertised a service and sold tickets for it then surely they have a moral (perhaps also legal) obligation to honour that contract until such point as it becomes impossible to do so?

The TOC also has to ensure the safety of its staff as well as its customers. It's all well and good suggesting that everyone battles on and only gives up if/when things get really bad, but then you end up with trains and staff out of place (and potentially out of hours). Then, when conditions do improve it's much more difficult to get the service back up and running because your resources are all over the place and potentially not well enough rested.

But it's unrealistic to expect people to drop what they're doing and rush to where they need to be a full day early.

Ultimately, the decision whether to travel is yours. You can either cut your current activity short and travel early, or extend it and travel later. We've known that there's a storm coming for a few days now so there has been plenty of time for people to make contingency plans.

Avanti have issued do not travel warnings, but they still haven't explicitly said that no trains will run. What are people supposed to do, come home and may be out of pocket for hotel bookings etc, or risk taking a train tomorrow because the TOC hasn't said they're not running?

If Avanti has issued do not travel warnings, I'd automatically assume that there are no trains running anyway and tailor my plans accordingly. The decision whether or not to run trains will largely depend on the circumstances on the day and only if it's considered safe to do so. It may turn out that some sort of service can be run, but these things cannot be meticulously planned in advance because er... weather is still not entirely predictable!

 

[Cross City]

It's not in the TThe TOCs where no trains will be running have said so.

That's not true. Avanti have not said that no trains will be running, only advising people not to travel.

 

[Horizon22]

As i've already said do not travel doesn't mean you cannot travel. Some people will still think they can take their chances despite the do not travel advice.

Well frankly, that it is on them. I agree, it's about a strong an instruction as you can make - the train company is saying NO. You are splitting hairs.

Ultimately this is about safety - of staff and passengers.

 

[Statto]

Honestly a lot of people in the UK just don't prepare for seriously adverse weather.

I've just been into the garden to move everything under a tarp and pin it down, half-dismantled the trampoline and tied it to the fence, and put the bins into the garage for a couple of days.

I was going to cycle a disused railway line on Friday, but instead I'll be indoors, eating some previously batch cooked game pie.

Guarantee a number of people in our village will be driving out to the Co-op or to get a chippy tea on Friday instead of having something from their cupboards.

By all means some people need to go to work or hospital appointments or something, but I reckon a significant number are journeys, especially car journeys, could be sacked off.

Most likely as we in the UK are not used to adverse weather & dealing well with it, the climate is mild most of the time, so any extreme weather causes havoc.

 

[43066]

Then tell them that explicitly.

I agree we should be quicker to shut the network and prevent travel where necessary.

The messaging isn’t perfect but is evolving in response to a rapidly changing and worsening picture. Even based on what’s already been out, I don’t think anyone could reasonably claim to be in any doubt that a major weather event is predicted, and that if they travel against advice tomorrow they’ll be at serious risk of stranding/disruption. This covers the scenario where TOCs need to suspend services/routes entirely.

 

[Horizon22]

Sorry but it's just excuses. Getting info to the people who use your service is the most important thing.

I'd call it a justified reason personally, but them some people like to call things "excuses" when they are giving a detailed reason as to why something does not or cannot happen with the snap of the fingers.

I personally believe customer information staff should be better resourced, but that isn't happening overnight but detail can be gradually added as the day goes on. I imagine by 1800 there will be a lot more depth. Again, give people time to firm up all the messaging.

 

[D6130]

LNEr have said that NO trains will run after 11am north of Preston.

I think you meant to type 'Newcastle'.

 

[InkyScrolls]

The "Little" North Western (Skipton to Morecambe via Lancaster) is shut from 0300 till 1200 on Saturday. Unsure regarding tomorrow. I just know I've got an unexpectedly easy shift on Saturday!

 

[Lewisham2221]

But it's unrealistic to expect people to drop what they're doing and rush to where they need to be a full day early.

What do you want them to do? Write a strongly worded letter to weather, asking it to change it's mind and be a little less aggressive?

 

[Horizon22]

I agree we should be quicker to shut the network and prevent travel where necessary.

Of course there will still be those - including in this thread - who think it is complete overkill and that TOCs are going too far and DO NOT TRAVEL is an extreme cop-out. I'd remind people that Network Rail and TOCs get detailed weather reports bespoke to the railway several days out and after several big incidents over the last few years know how their routes will fair, available response resources, known hotspots etc. and the likely impacts of all this. Of course if the forecast worsens, then it will only be more justified. If the forecast improves, personally I'd rather an abundance of caution and accepting the "we told you so" comments rather than the opposite issue of a significant incident(s) occuring on the network.

 

[Rockhopperr]

All Scotrail services suspended tomorrow

 

[londonmidland]

From ScotRail:

With the safety of customers and staff of paramount importance, we will not be safe to operate passenger services due to the forecast weather conditions across Scotland during #StormÉowyn. All ScotRail services are suspended on Friday, 24 January. We strongly advise you not to travel, as there will be no train services, and no alternative transport will be available.

 

[styles]

Most likely as we in the UK are not used to adverse weather & dealing well with it, the climate is mild most of the time, so any extreme weather causes havoc.

Which to an extent is always going to happen. We're not going to design our railways to run smoothly in exceptionally heavy snow for example.

I do think though that as a population we just don't take the weather warnings as seriously as they should be. Someone in our village had to have an arm amputated just before Christmas as she chose to drive to Co-op for (literally) a tin of tuna on a -8C icy morning with a red snow/ice warning, continued to drive at near the 60mph limit on a country lane, and ended up crashing through a tree line. There's no way she didn't have something else to eat, or could've waited until the afternoon once the surfaces had improved. I don't want to sound unsympathetic as she obviously didn't set out to crash, but it really wasn't worth the risk. I worked in a food shop when I was a teenager and was baffled even back then at what people left the house for in icy/snowy/windy conditions.

 

[amahy]

Slightly odd situation on Calder Valley. All Wigan to Leeds and Manchester to Leeds have been cancelled, yet Chester to Leeds and Headbolt Lane to Blackburn still running.

 

[ainsworth74]

Honestly a lot of people in the UK just don't prepare for seriously adverse weather.

Yes I do think that's an issue. I think it's, at least in part, because we just don't really get properly adverse weather all that often. That may change in the future with climate change but historically we don't really get powerful windstorms, or torrential rain, or snowstorms. We do get them, occasionally, but the majority of the time our weather is so benign that I think most people just get used to the idea that they don't really need to prepare much beyond making sure they've got their big coat out and ready.

I wonder how many people still have plenty of candles in stock if the power goes out? Makes sure that they charge device's and power banks? Keep some tinned food in stock? Nothing too extravagant but enough so that if the power goes out for a day or two you're not stuffed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree we should be quicker to shut the network and prevent travel where necessary.

I don't agree we should be quicker to do so but I do think it is justified for a red warning and in some cases for amber depending what it's a warning of.

What I would probably do is automatically trigger the option of a refund or change of day of travel as soon as an amber is declared, applicable to both directions of any journey that involves the warning area even if only a small part of it does. That way you are encouraging people to change in advance of knowing if things will be bad enough not to run or not. You're also setting a simple criterion that removes the need to spend time debating whether to do it or not - if any point on the journey's route is in an amber area for the date of travel, it's immediately triggered as a right, and the right remains for tickets purchased before it was declared even if later downgraded.

I believe this is how US airlines do it - the flexibility remains even where they don't end up disrupted, too.

Avanti and LNER doing different dates (and no doubt some TOCs doing nothing as they don't run in the area) isn't good enough, it needs to apply to the full journey.

The messaging isn’t perfect but is evolving in response to a rapidly changing and worsening picture. Even based on what’s already been out, I don’t think anyone could reasonably claim to be in any doubt that a major weather event is predicted, and that if they travel against advice tomorrow they’ll be at serious risk of stranding/disruption. This covers the scenario where TOCs need to suspend services/routes entirely.

Agree with this.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Yes I do think that's an issue. I think it's, at least in part, because we just don't really get properly adverse weather all that often. That may change in the future with climate change but historically we don't really get powerful windstorms, or torrential rain, or snowstorms. We do get them, occasionally, but the majority of the time our weather is so benign that I think most people just get used to the idea that they don't really need to prepare much beyond making sure they've got their big coat out and ready.

Agreed. We're used to getting rain and wind, so when we get a storm related weather warning, many people just react along the lines of "meh, it's just a bit of rain/wind" without fully appreciating the message. Similar to how people belittle summer weather warnings for heat. Culturally we're used to having "average" weather, and the basically the whole country and it's infrastructure is built around this.

 

[Wivenswold]

A little heads-up that the forecasting models are picking-up the possibility that the Sunday/Monday storm could spin-up a "daughter" or "short wave" low that could bring destructive winds to the SE corner of the UK on Monday. Last night's Met Office chart showed gusts of up to 100mph along the Sussex and Kent coasts and up to 90mph inland and up the Essex and Suffolk coasts.

While the situation has not been resolved by the weather models and this morning's Met Office chart brought max gusts down to 60-70 mph, meteorologists are extremely concerned about the potential. Certainly one to watch. Its track, if it forms at all, is uncertain but a worst case could be a 1987-style event. I'm sure Network Rail are monitoring it hourly.

As an aside, I started my career on the railway and I want to return, particularly in Health & Safety/Weather planning given my insurance/risk assessment/commercial litigation background. If anyone has a contact in these areas I'd really appreciate an email address.

 

[Buzby]

An announcement at Haymarket a few moments ago that NO trains will run tomorrow (Friday) on instructions from ScotGov for the Central Belt of Scotland.

 

[Carlisle]

I wonder how many people still have plenty of candles in stock if the power goes out?

If you live in a rural location with power supplied via a pole system you probably still do.

 

[Essan]

Scotrail's home page message:

Major disruption due to extreme weatherUpdated: 14:15 23 January 2025

Storm Éowyn

With the safety of customers and staff of paramount importance, we will not be safe to operate passenger services due to the forecast weather conditions across Scotland during Storm Éowyn.

All ScotRail services are suspended on Friday, 24 January 2025.

We strongly advise you not to travel, as there will be no train services, and no alternative transport will be available.

The Met Office issued an upgraded red warning for Storm Éowyn, which is expected to arrive in Scotland in the morning on Friday, 24 January, bringing extremely high winds, with gusts reaching 100mph in some parts.

The red warning will be in place from 10.00 to 17.00 and covers central Scotland, Tayside, Fife, south west Scotland, Lothian, Borders, and Strathclyde. There is also an amber warning for wind across the rest of the country and a yellow warning for snow covering much of the highlands.
This could lead to trees and other debris falling onto the tracks, trapping trains and putting people in danger. It can also impact service recovery times due to poor road and driving conditions.
Once the warnings pass, the network will have to undergo safety inspections before services can be reintroduced.
Please check the ScotRail website or app before travelling on Saturday morning.

• ScotRail App
• Journey Check

Plus, you can get the latest updates when you follow us on social media @ScotRail.
Tickets for travel dated 24 January 2025 can now be used from Thursday, 23 January, up to and including Tuesday, 28 January 2025. This means that these can be used before or after the date printed on the ticket.

Refunds

Anyone who is unable to use their tickets, or has made alternative arrangements, is entitled to a full refund on their unused train tickets. Just visit our refunds page to claim. Customers who travel but arrive over 29 mins late to their destination are also entitled to money back under our Delay guarantee. To claim this, keep hold of your ticket (or save a copy on your phone if it's an mTicket) and visit our Delay Repay site.

Storm Éowyn latest

Updated: 17:30 27 January 2025Storm ÉowynThe extensive damage caused by Storm Éowyn resulted in around 500 individual incidents across the network. Our colleagues at Network Rail have been working flat out since Friday to check routes for damage, and to carry out repair work.These include more...

www.scotrail.co.uk

 

[generalnerd]

I’m taking a TPE service from Hull to Manchester tomorrow, would there be a high chance of this being cancelled? From weather maps we look to dodge most of the worst parts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think ScotRail were a bit late - as a result it will be too late for some to reach their destinations today. Even if the decision to suspend wasn't made by then, they should really have declared "do not travel" as soon as the red warning was issued. It's also too late in the day to cancel flexible hotel bookings which normally become unchangeable/uncancellable from about 1pm.

---

WMT have just declared Do Not Travel and no services at all between Crewe and Liverpool tomorrow - this doesn't seem justified and Avanti haven't (or will they later?). Liverpool is only in the yellow area, not even the amber, unless it's changed.

Edit: I just checked and central Liverpool is not in the amber area, just yellow. Yellow just means "it'll be a bit blowy". What on earth are they playing at here?

What is the reasoning here? I wonder will Avanti end up diverting via the WCML because of the Runcorn bridge or something? If so it's rather late for them to potentially announce they might not be serving it either...

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think ScotRail were a bit late - as a result it will be too late for some to reach their destinations today. Even if the decision to suspend wasn't made by then, they should really have declared "do not travel" as soon as the red warning was issued. It's also too late in the day to cancel flexible hotel bookings which normally become unchangeable/uncancellable from about 1pm.

Agreed. Get the "do not travel" message out straight away and worry about the specifics after

 

[A S Leib]

Avanti are accepting Friday tickets Thursday to Sunday

Because of the Trent Valley engineering works again, I'm surprised they haven't said that they'd be accepted on Monday or later.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I can see Northern have cancelled all of the Wigan-Leeds services tomorrow, but the Headbolt Lane - Blackburn are still running, could they not run them as Wigan-Manchester instead of cancelling entirely?