Ticket Avoiders - Advice please

[martynw2000]

I'm a season ticket holder, and I know of a group of youngsters (I say youngsters because they're in their early 20's and I'm not!) who regularly do the same journey as me and deliberately avoid buying tickets. What can I do about this?

The group in question don't buy a ticket at the station's ticket office even though it's open. They simply walk onto the train. Our train journey is only 6 stops and lasts approximately 30mins, so on average tickets are only checked about 3 out of 5 days. On the days a ticket inspector is around, they move up the train or sometimes hide in the toilets to avoid the inspector.

On the few occasions the inspector has asked for their tickets they produce a credit/debit card which they know won't work (they claim it has no money on it). The inspector then says "you'll have to buy a ticket at your destination". Which of course they don't. They blatently walk out of the station laughing and joking about "how they got away with it again".

There are no barriers at the destination station.

Obviously this is wrong and as someone who has paid full price for a season ticket it somewhat irksome to see others flaunting the system.

What can be done about this?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'd have a quiet word with the guard before you board the train.

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

I love seeing Chavs getting chung up for unpaid fares! Serves them right.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

A similar thing happens on my daily commute, whereby the kids going to the local college always stand right at the very front of the train, knowing that as the guard starts selling tickets from the back, he won't get to them in the 10 minutes it takes to go two stops.

However one guard got wise to them and decided to start selling tickets from the front rather than the back of the train!

That said, the only solution would be two guards - one starting from the front and the other from the back. Whether that's worthwhile in terms of revenue collection is one for the train company, but sometimes Northern Rail do it.

 

[142094]

Which two stations does this happen between? It might be the case that one or both are in a penalty fare zone.

I'd be tempted to write off a letter of complaint to customer services and see what their response is. If you get no luck there, go a bit higher.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Customer services is not really the way to go. You will be writing to office staff who are sitting in a building which could be a hundred miles from where the offence is taking place. What can they do about it there? Forward a message to the depot of the train crew who staff that particular service and hope that the right person sees it?

The simple solution is to inform the person who has some power to do anything about it. Yeah, you run the risk of meeting a miserable guard who simply doesn't care but going to the back of the train and having one of those "I hope I am not speaking out of turn but..." conversations with the person in charge of the train will be the quickest way to make sure something happens.

 

[table38]

I see this a lot between Rhyl and Prestatyn, it's only 5 minutes so the local yoof "hide" in the front vestibule of the 175. If you sit in an aisle seat facing forward, you occasionally see a head peeking through the door checking for an approaching guard

It's £2.60 so I suppose that's the price of another drink in Rhyl.

Strangely there is also a fare at £23, so maybe that's why they hide...

 

[142094]

Customer services is not really the way to go. You will be writing to office staff who are sitting in a building which could be a hundred miles from where the offence is taking place. What can they do about it there? Forward a message to the depot of the train crew who staff that particular service and hope that the right person sees it?

At least there will be a record of the complaint back at HQ - you could talk to 100 different guards about the problem and then HQ/Customer services could trun around and say they don't have any records of complaints when you talk to them.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Agreed on that point. Though I wouldnt expect anything to happen if a letter to PR was my only course of action.

 

[142094]

Agreed on that point. Though I wouldnt expect anything to happen if a letter to PR was my only course of action.

Neither would I, but then it is the first step that I'd take, then go from there.

 

[martynw2000]

Which two stations does this happen between? It might be the case that one or both are in a penalty fare zone.

I'd be tempted to write off a letter of complaint to customer services and see what their response is. If you get no luck there, go a bit higher.

It's between Robertsbridge and Tunbridge Wells on the Hastings line. Both stations are within the penalty fare zone, but in over a year I've never seen that enforced. People without tickets have to buy one from the guard when he comes round, or if they can't pay they are told to get one at their destination.

In fact, the guards sometimes seem particularly uninterested in checking tickets. On a number of occasions they stroll down the train saying "does anyone need to buy a ticket?". If you keep quiet they simply walk past to the next carriage.

 

[Clip]

It's between Robertsbridge and Tunbridge Wells on the Hastings line. Both stations are within the penalty fare zone, but in over a year I've never seen that enforced. People without tickets have to buy one from the guard when he comes round, or if they can't pay they are told to get one at their destination.

In fact, the guards sometimes seem particularly uninterested in checking tickets. On a number of occasions they stroll down the train saying "does anyone need to buy a ticket?". If you keep quiet they simply walk past to the next carriage.

Id write a letter to the Revenue manager. They run teams of REOs there too IIRC so they should be getting them out and about too and start clamping down. But its difficult as they dont have many to cover the whole line

 

[Ferret]

Id write a letter to the Revenue manager. They run teams of REOs there too IIRC so they should be getting them out and about too and start clamping down. But its difficult as they dont have many to cover the whole line

You beat me to it. I know if it was my TOC that was involved, our Revenue and Security manager would love to hear of a tale like this - intelligence can be vital in securing convictions against serial offenders.

 

[martynw2000]

Id write a letter to the Revenue manager.

Anyone know where I can find out the address to send a letter? I'm guessing somewhere at Southeastern Railways. I'd probably prefer to send an email, but do you think a letter in the post would be better? Do TOC's respond well to emails at all?

 

[Mike395]

Anyone know where I can find out the address to send a letter? I'm guessing somewhere at Southeastern Railways. I'd probably prefer to send an email, but do you think a letter in the post would be better? Do TOC's respond well to emails at all?

I've contacted Southeastern by email before, and they take about a month or reply, whereas a letter (sent recorded delivery so you know they have it!) has always got me a reply within 2 weeks (it seems to help the speed of reply if you write on the envelope who you're addressing the letter to )

 

[jopsuk]

NXEA run a text system for reporting suspected fare dodgers, though its effectiveness relies on them being able to redirect nearby RPIs to intercept.

 

[island]

Strangely there is also a fare at £23, so maybe that's why they hide...

That's probably some class of ranger.

 

[Sleepy]

what is BTP stance to a complaint from the public about regular travel fraud by same persons on same train ?

 

[Clip]

I've contacted Southeastern by email before, and they take about a month or reply, whereas a letter (sent recorded delivery so you know they have it!) has always got me a reply within 2 weeks (it seems to help the speed of reply if you write on the envelope who you're addressing the letter to )

This. I know with us that if its addressed to the Revenue manager then he gets to read them directly either through being sent on or by being scanned and emailed to him to speed it up.

 

[Fare-Cop]

what is BTP stance to a complaint from the public about regular travel fraud by same persons on same train ?

Generally speaking their attitude will be 'Not My Problem'. There are some good BTP Officers of course, but in the main they see enforcing ticket rules as low priority. Historically, it has been recognised by rail staff that BTP stands for Be There...Perhaps!

I've passed a link to this thread to the relevant Revenue Control Manager

The best I can suggest is that the OP writes to the Revenue Control Manager at South-Eastern with a full explanation & description of the problem as outlined in the post on here, or if you have the time, call at Victoria tomorrow morning and there is a 'meet the manager' session for the public between 8 and 10 a.m.
.

 

[martynw2000]

Update:

I informed the station-master about the problem. He gave me a form to fill in (which I believe is a standard customer comments form), and said if I give that back to him he will put a stamp on it and send it to the correct office.

He also took a description of the fare-dodger, and I covertly pointed him out on the platform. I believe the guard on today's train was informed, as no sooner had the train departed, the guard was there checking tickets.

 

[185]

Any consolation, a group of 8 from Warrington to Birchwood were accidentally locked in a disabled toilet where the door had 'mysteriously' jammed. The poor chavs ended up in Manchester Oxford Road. Ohnoes.

 

[martynw2000]

Any consolation, a group of 8 from Warrington to Birchwood were accidentally locked in a disabled toilet where the door had 'mysteriously' jammed. The poor chavs ended up in Manchester Oxford Road. Ohnoes.

Mysteriously locked huh? LOL

I didn't think you could get 8 people in a train toilet - bet that was fun!

 

[lyesbkz]

Strangely there is also a fare at £23, so maybe that's why they hide...

That's probably some class of ranger.

Correct - It is a North Wales Rover.

 

[Flamingo]

Some BTP will respond to this type of complaint, and are quite active

http://www.btp.police.uk/about_us/contacts.aspx

Try here with the information

 

[b0b]

Mysteriously locked huh? LOL

not sure he really should be openly admitting that

 

[Flamingo]

I have heard of toilet doors mysteriously jamming until BTP / Revenue arrived. The guard was outside the door, reassuring the occupant trapped that they were doing everything they could to release the door.