ScotRail recruiting more revenue staff

[Mojo]

Aslef Scotland today posted on X

After nearly 40 years of just having a driver on some trains @ScotRail it finally comes to an end as every train will have at least two staff members onboard. This improves safety, reduces anti-social behaviour and increases revenue.

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Is this the same people being discussed in this thread? I was under the impression that all passenger trains operated by Scotrail have a second staff member rostered to be onboard (whether that be a Conductor or a Ticket Examiner), but that some Electric trains in the applicable area may be operated without a Ticket Examiner in the event one is unavailable. Perhaps the extra staff are additional Ticket Examiners to provide for more spares and / or assist staff on other trains?

 

[Peter0124]

I have noticed groups of around 4 people in purple hi-vis vests on trains from Glasgow to Largs. I have no idea what these people are and they seem to do nothing.

I think they are basically ASB/wellbeing officers

 

[reb0118]

That said I find it frustrating that I can get my 33% railcard discount but NOT my 50% with Strathclyde Concession as these are only sold at manned ticket offices or on-train. NOT from TVMs, Forum site or other retailers. The reason given is ‘fraud’ yet this could still be the case with other railcards anyway so I believe the policy remains unfair for those who could use the latter but have to pay 20% more.

That is because there is a revenue risk to a third party, viz. your local authority - and by extension their council taxpayers.

Railcards are offered by the "railway" per se, and the railway accepts the revenue loss as ultimately the view is that railcards generate many more discretionary journeys that not only offset the discount given but also any discounts issued erroneously.

Whereas tickets issued under the council concession schemes generate a burden to the local authority whether they were issued to genuine Nationalal Entitlement Card (NEC) holders or not. That is a risk the local authorities will not take as abuse from TVM purchases would be rife.

That said it should not be beyond the wit of man to enable the TVMs to read NECs (they are smartcards after all) and issue any applicable ticket directly on to it.

 

[Buzby]

I put in a formal complaint regarding the ‘concession’ anomaly and this was ScotRai‘s (somewhat comprehensive) reply;

“I can confirm that then neither our online services or ticket vending machines are able to issue local concessionary tickets our Tap and go App would be included in this. The Concessionary Fares scheme is actually a number of different schemes, which have different conditions and fares depending on which council issued the Concession Card. This could lead to confusion of which fare to choose from the fares list with the likely option taken being the cheapest but not always the correct fare.

“One council has already indicated that they do not wish to participate in this*. We must also consider whether customers who are less able should be forced to use a ticket machine and then be subject to our "Buy Before You Board" policy - this is a requirement to be in possession of a valid ticket before joining a train where ticket-issuing facilities are available. We prefer to show discretion and allow our on-train staff to issue concessionary tickets on trains.

“Software alterations to the ticket machines would also need to be costed and developed and because there is no generic Concession Card, a multi-card choice would be required. The cost of these changes would be high as different screens would be required, along with a revised fares list. If all councils agreed to participate they would need to agree to pay ScotRail the difference in cost between the fare charged and the actual fare.

“As the Concessionary fare would be the cheapest fare option available, it is likely that more than just those entitled to this ticket would try to use it thereby incurring an additional cost to each council funded concessionary scheme.

“If Transport Scotland decided to introduce a generic Concessionary card for the whole of Scotland and agreed to pay the associated costs then it may be a possibility. Many of the existing obstacles would be overcome, but there will always need to be some alternative arrangement to allow less able customers to buy their ticket on the train, which we operate now at no additional cost and with all the benefits.

*I believe this is one of the Lothian Council’s

 

[Scotrail84]

I put in a formal complaint regarding the ‘concession’ anomaly and this was ScotRai‘s (somewhat comprehensive) reply;

“I can confirm that then neither our online services or ticket vending machines are able to issue local concessionary tickets our Tap and go App would be included in this. The Concessionary Fares scheme is actually a number of different schemes, which have different conditions and fares depending on which council issued the Concession Card. This could lead to confusion of which fare to choose from the fares list with the likely option taken being the cheapest but not always the correct fare.

“One council has already indicated that they do not wish to participate in this*. We must also consider whether customers who are less able should be forced to use a ticket machine and then be subject to our "Buy Before You Board" policy - this is a requirement to be in possession of a valid ticket before joining a train where ticket-issuing facilities are available. We prefer to show discretion and allow our on-train staff to issue concessionary tickets on trains.

“Software alterations to the ticket machines would also need to be costed and developed and because there is no generic Concession Card, a multi-card choice would be required. The cost of these changes would be high as different screens would be required, along with a revised fares list. If all councils agreed to participate they would need to agree to pay ScotRail the difference in cost between the fare charged and the actual fare.

“As the Concessionary fare would be the cheapest fare option available, it is likely that more than just those entitled to this ticket would try to use it thereby incurring an additional cost to each council funded concessionary scheme.

“If Transport Scotland decided to introduce a generic Concessionary card for the whole of Scotland and agreed to pay the associated costs then it may be a possibility. Many of the existing obstacles would be overcome, but there will always need to be some alternative arrangement to allow less able customers to buy their ticket on the train, which we operate now at no additional cost and with all the benefits.

*I believe this is one of the Lothian Council’s

Only East Lothian council have a train concession scheme now. (I think)

 

[AMD]

Only East Lothian council have a train concession scheme now. (I think)

Nope, just Fife and the former Strathclyde area councils.

 

[deerokus]

The Glasgow subway works with the concession cards. It's a bit of a faff though - you go to the ticket office and they load the ticket onto the NEC card so that it then works on the ticket barriers.

 

[Buzby]

You’ll find that only certain Concession cards can be used - for example only cards issued by councils in the Strathclyde area can be used for discounted travel, you don’t have to go to a ticket office, you can ‘load’ the Saltire NEC with funds and your use decrements this at the concession rate until exhausted or topped up.

Take one of these cards to Edinburgh and you’ll not get far on the trams, as there is no free or discounted travel (only on buses).

 

[Xavi]

Refreshing to see so many revenue protection staff in and around Glasgow and via Bathgate to Edinburgh. Never had my ticket checked so many times. A lesson for England and Wales.

 

[cadder toad]

The Glasgow subway works with the concession cards. It's a bit of a faff though - you go to the ticket office and they load the ticket onto the NEC card so that it then works on the ticket barriers.

To me it's like an Oyster card. Top it up with £10/£20 at a machine. Tap to get through the barriers. It seems to calculate the minimum fare due for your day's travel. I find it very convenient indeed. I wonder why something similar can't be arranged for the local trains.

 

[Buzby]

I wonder why something similar can't be arranged for the local trains.

I would assume (unlike the Subway, which is flat-fare) that the ‘10 mile’ linear distance would cause it problems, where the flat fare effectively doubles should you go over. Also, unlike bus use, the Glasgow scheme only operates across certain contiguous Council areas.

 

[Porty]

Refreshing to see so many revenue protection staff in and around Glasgow and via Bathgate to Edinburgh. Never had my ticket checked so many times. A lesson for England and Wales.

As a regular ScotRail user I'm used to checks. Surprised to find no barriers and very random and cursory checks in NW England and using Carlisle, Lancaster and Preston. Wouldn't be surprised if there's huge fare avoidance in this area - ultimately paid for by the taxpayer (including those in Scotland).

 

[ScottGallagher]

It was interesting on my recent journey from Manchester PIcc to London that there were people surveying for the DFT to assess the level of revenue being lost!

 

[reb0118]

....The ‘10 mile’ linear distance.....

I've heard rumours that the 10 mile flat fare is being withdrawn. The concession fare will be be the passenger paying 50% of the anytime fare and the authority paying up to the off peak equivalent. Flat fares will still exist for the Oban & Barrhill services.

 

[Buzby]

I've heard rumours that the 10 mile flat fare is being withdrawn. The concession fare will be be the passenger paying 50% of the anytime fare and the authority paying up to the off peak equivalent.

I hadn’t heard that one - but the difficulty will still remain in that nobody will have a clue as to the limits of the zone. If this is to be Scotland-wide, fine - all Councils with a railway will be required to contribute, but they’re all claiming poverty. Didn’t East Lothian even stop their scheme for local resident?

 

[gizmo91]

I've heard rumours that the 10 mile flat fare is being withdrawn. The concession fare will be be the passenger paying 50% of the anytime fare and the authority paying up to the off peak equivalent. Flat fares will still exist for the Oban & Barrhill services.

Changes are being made from 1 April, it was announced by SPT earlier this week. 10 mile flat fare removed except for some rural routes, all other fares will be half the standard fare (as it is just now for more than 10 miles).

https://www.spt.co.uk/about-us/news...travel-scheme-fare-changes-from-1-april-2025/

 

[Buzby]

Having read the website - it’s clearly just a price hike - and NOT Scotland-Wide.

It again perpetuates the ‘Strathclyde’ boundaries and only the (12?) existing councils within provide any usability of the SPT scheme. What is not mentioned is whether the Peak rail ‘blackouts’ morning and evening will still exist, or whether discounted ferry trips will be allowed for those in the area, or is it just the same island dwellers as previously mentioned?

Users will still have the usual conundrum - is SPT’s 50% standard fare reduction better than a 33% Railcard discount on a day return or Advance? Is the journey wholly within old ‘Strathclyde’ - that may make a difference, then there’s the flat fare rural areas…. Not really doing anything to simplify the process, and SPT warns that Railcard fares may still be cheaper!

 

[reb0118]

I hadn’t heard that one - but the difficulty will still remain in that nobody will have a clue as to the limits of the zone.

The Strathclyde scheme is quite simple in regards to boundaries. Only within the area of the former Strathclyde Regional Council.

It's now getting simpler in regards to fares: 50% discount on the Anytime fare (albeit only valid at "off peak" times).

 

[Buzby]

Only within the area of the former Strathclyde Regional Council.

Strathclyde was dissolved in March 1996 almost 30 years ago! Just you try to find a recent map that defines it. Lastly why ‘only off-peak’? Since you’d pay 50% of whatever the prevailing fare is there is no need for a blackout. There’s no blackout on bus travel, so this emails a mess as my SR remains fully useable.

 

[reb0118]

.....Lastly why ‘only off-peak’? Since you’d pay 50% of whatever the prevailing fare is there is no need for a blackout. There’s no blackout on bus travel, so this emails a mess as my SR remains fully useable.

That is something I've never understood. Possibly a funding issue - as SPT only pay the difference up to the off peak day fare.

 

[Peter0124]

I wish it wasn't half the standard fare. During the off peak all day trial the discount was actually good (50%), but since its a discount on the anytime fare it isn't really 50% for most people. More in line with railcards (33%).

 

[Buzby]

it isn't really 50% for most people. More in line with railcards (33%).

Agreed, and should you fall foul of the extended (over 10 miles) cost, a Railcard discount would most likely be the better option!

 

[cadder toad]

Changes are being made from 1 April, it was announced by SPT earlier this week. 10 mile flat fare removed except for some rural routes, all other fares will be half the standard fare (as it is just now for more than 10 miles).

https://www.spt.co.uk/about-us/news...travel-scheme-fare-changes-from-1-april-2025/

The capped fare applies from Helensburgh Stations (Upper and Central) to Oban. Presumably its fine to board the Oban train at Dumbarton with a Helensburgh Stations to Oban ticket. How else would it be possible to travel by train from Helensburgh Central to Oban?

 

[reb0118]

How else would it be possible to travel by train from Helensburgh Central to Oban?

Most sensible folk would just walk up the hill to Helensburgh Upper. It's not far & has stunning views over to the Inverclyde Riviera (you just have to stop for a bit & turn round).

I recently forced my Mother to do the walk. At 81 she needs a bit of encouragement - that said she's still not forgiven me for marching her up to the station at Stonehaven a while back.

 

[johntea]

I have noticed TransPenine Express (in England) seem to have more revenue protection staff jumping on board services recently, the actual guard (if they do come down the train) usually just do a quick visual check of tickets but then the revenue staff board and do full scans / railcard checks and the like