Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[Harpo]

This new proposal will be 2.5 hours

Presumably based on Euston (+MKC) to Nuneaton (by Pendolino) 1 hour, Nuneaton to Wolves via Sutton Park perhaps about an hour (?), Shrewsbury to Wolves non-stop 30 mins or 35 with a Telford call?

It’ll be interesting.

 

[nwales58]

The big surprise, to me, is that even in the down direction the previous path runs more than 3 minutes late by Rugby on 40%-70% of occasions.

So the key to increasing WCML capacity is to spend time and money on making the existing paths work, small scale investment where needed.

edit: deleted off-topic about line capacity versus design

 

[The Planner]

The big surprise, to me, is that even in the down direction the previous path runs more than 3 minutes late by Rugby on 40%-70% of occasions.

So the key to increasing WCML capacity is to spend time and money on making the existing paths work, small scale investment where needed.

edit: deleted off-topic about line capacity versus design

The existing paths work, its not free of TSRs south of Rugby.

 

[richard_S]

A possible route would be to restore the North/West chord just north of Shotton high level and link it to the Holly-head line. Most of the earthworks is still there. This would give a Holly-head Wrexham Shrewsbury and on-wards to London. As to the WCML it needs 4 tracking. remove the 3 line and 2 line sections

 

[12LDA28C]

A possible route would be to restore the North/West chord just north of Shotton high level and link it to the Holly-head line. Most of the earthworks is still there. This would give a Holly-head Wrexham Shrewsbury and on-wards to London. As to the WCML it needs 4 tracking. remove the 3 line and 2 line sections

'Holly-head' sounds quite whimsical and pleasant, not words that most would normally associate with Holyhead which is neither of those things.

 

[richard_S]

'Holly-head' sounds quite whimsical and pleasant, not words that most would normally associate with Holyhead which is neither of those things.

timed for the Dublin ferry. It would eliminate changing ends at Chester.

 

[robspaceman]

A possible route would be to restore the North/West chord just north of Shotton high level and link it to the Holly-head line. Most of the earthworks is still there. This would give a Holly-head Wrexham Shrewsbury and on-wards to London. As to the WCML it needs 4 tracking. remove the 3 line and 2 line sections

As fun as it is to get the crayons out, this belongs firmly in the speculative discussion section!
In the unlikely event WSMR even goes ahead, you’re not going to get enormous infrastructure changes like that for an open access operator… plus of course there’s a small matter of London-Holyhead being far far quicker via Crewe.

 

[richard_S]

As fun as it is to get the crayons out, this belongs firmly in the speculative discussion section!
In the unlikely event WSMR even goes ahead, you’re not going to get enormous infrastructure changes like that for an open access operator… plus of course there’s a small matter of London-Holyhead being far far quicker via Crewe.

Crewe is getting contested.

 

[The Planner]

Crewe is getting contested.

If you mean congested, its worse north of Crewe where you are suggesting.

 

[richard_S]

If you mean congested, its worse north of Crewe where you are suggesting.

Just before Winsford. It needs to be 4 tracks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

'Holly-head' sounds quite whimsical and pleasant, not words that most would normally associate with Holyhead which is neither of those things.

In my one spell of working for the railway in the summer of 1963, I took over a one-man station booking office (Upton by Chester, now closed) with a few days handover from the previous incumbent, whose grasp of geography was a bit weak.
Most long distance tickets were hand-written, and I distinctly remember him writing out Hollyhead and Windowmere on the Edmonson cards.

 

[paul1609]

A possible route would be to restore the North/West chord just north of Shotton high level and link it to the Holly-head line. Most of the earthworks is still there. This would give a Holly-head Wrexham Shrewsbury and on-wards to London. As to the WCML it needs 4 tracking. remove the 3 line and 2 line sections

The last time (3/24) I joined an Avanti service at Holyhead from the Irish Ferry there were 4 foot passengers. I was going to Kent, the guy I was talking to was going to Manchester not sure about the other 2. I guess we were all travelling on Sailrail tickets. My ticket to kent was discounted by around 3/4s over a standard Holyhead to Kent Anytime Single (assuming the ferry was thrown in for free).
I cant see that there would be any passengers for an additional train or how an open access operator could possibly cover its costs.
It would actually be interesting to see what subsidy the UK taxpayer is paying for Irish Sailrail tickets.

 

[craigybagel]

As fun as it is to get the crayons out, this belongs firmly in the speculative discussion section!
In the unlikely event WSMR even goes ahead, you’re not going to get enormous infrastructure changes like that for an open access operator… plus of course there’s a small matter of London-Holyhead being far far quicker via Crewe.

And more importantly, it's a lot quicker via Heathrow, or even Stansted.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Does anyone know when the Office of Rail and Road is likely to make a decision on WSMR and the other two (Lumo and Virgin) currently undecided open access applications for paths on the West Coast Mainline?

June 25 (at the earliest) is the current estimate as they won’t get anything useful from NR until March, much to the annoyance of the applicants.

According to the Office of Rail and Road website there was a meeting today and two more meetings are scheduled on 19 March and 16 April. If there is no decision on any of the open access applications until June surely the earliest timetable change that any of them could start operating is May 2026.

Competing track access applications | Office of Rail and Road

Information on how competing and complex applications for the December 2024, May 2025 and December 2025 timetable changes will be considered.

www.orr.gov.uk

Further meetings are planned on:
20 November and 16 December 2024
22 January, 19 February, 19 March and 16 April 2025

The proposed commencement date show on Form P for the Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway application is May 2025 but they will certainly not be starting any service then. The earliest timetable change to start a service which includes a call at Darlaston Station is May 2026 as the station is not yet built and is due to open early in 2026.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-08/wsmr-limited-s17-form-p.pdf

Proposed commencement date: May 2025
End date: May 2032
Date approval or directions wanted by: Earliest Opportunity

WSMR seeks an initial 7 year Track Access agreement from 2025 to 2032.

 

[The Planner]

According to the Office of Rail and Road website there was a meeting today and two more meetings are scheduled on 19 March and 16 April. If there is no decision on any of the open access applications until June surely the earliest timetable change that any of them could start operating is May 2026.

They could start whenever they wanted if the paths work and their application is accepfed. They just bid for them.

The proposed commencement date show on Form P for the Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway application is May 2025 but they will certainly not be starting any service then. The earliest timetable change to start a service which includes a call at Darlaston Station is May 2026 as the station is not yet built and is due to open early in 2026.

They run without the Darlaaton stop.

 

[Bald Rick]

They could start whenever they wanted if the paths work and their application is accepfed. They just bid for them.

And had some trains and staff!

 

[Jurg]

The last time (3/24) I joined an Avanti service at Holyhead from the Irish Ferry there were 4 foot passengers.

Do 4 foot passengers pay a child fare?

 

[krus_aragon]

Do 4 foot passengers pay a child fare?

No, four feet means you need to pay two fares.

 

[The Planner]

And had some trains and staff!

Details...

 

[AlanL]

There was a test run this morning from Barton Under Needwood to Wrexham General using an ex-Avanti Voyager 221104 - Perhaps its the new WSMR rail company testing the route or planning a press run?

 

[The Planner]

There was a test run this morning from Barton Under Needwood to Wrexham General using an ex-Avanti Voyager 221104 - Perhaps its the new WSMR rail company testing the route or planning a press run?

Based on the route that would appear to be the case.

 

[Zontar]

There was a test run this morning from Barton Under Needwood to Wrexham General using an ex-Avanti Voyager 221104 - Perhaps its the new WSMR rail company testing the route or planning a press run?

Interesting, have you got any more info? How did you stumble across this?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

You can see the journey out and return to Derby below from RTT

Realtime Trains | 5V21 1016 Barton Under Needwood Rsmd to Wrexham General | 10/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5V21 1016 departure from Barton Under Needwood Rsmd to Wrexham General on 10/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5M21 1320 Wrexham General to Derby Litchurch Lane | 10/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5M21 1320 departure from Wrexham General to Derby Litchurch Lane on 10/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AlanL]

Interesting, have you got any more info? How did you stumble across this?

Its returning from Wrexham Gen to Derby at 13-20 as 5M21 - the info is from the Friends of Wellington Station facebook site. Looks like it could be a testing run and maybe the WSMR have had some 'good news'?

 

[The Planner]

Its returning from Wrexham Gen to Derby at 13-20 as 5M21 - the info is from the Friends of Wellington Station facebook site. Looks like it could be a testing run and maybe the WSMR have had some 'good news'?

Testing between Coleshill and Wrexham doesn't necessarily equal paths to and from Euston.

 

[Zontar]

Its returning from Wrexham Gen to Derby at 13-20 as 5M21 - the info is from the Friends of Wellington Station facebook site. Looks like it could be a testing run and maybe the WSMR have had some 'good news'?

Yes it certainly looks that way!

Testing between Coleshill and Wrexham doesn't necessarily equal paths to and from Euston.

No, but doing a test run from central rivers to Wrexham isn't done for clicks and giggles either.

Return path is up too

Realtime Trains | 5M21 1320 Wrexham General to Derby Litchurch Lane | 10/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5M21 1320 departure from Wrexham General to Derby Litchurch Lane on 10/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[12LDA28C]

PTI clearance checks being carried out at stations, according to a post by RailAdventure on LinkedIn.

 

[The Planner]

No, but doing a test run from central rivers to Wrexham isn't done for clicks and giggles either.

Didn't say it was. WSMR did test runs like this last time they were starting up, and that was before they got their paths confirmed as well.

 

[fgwrich]

221104 at Wrexham. Photo credit of Rail Adventure / Phil Allison

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[LNW-GW Joint]

Well there's only Chirk and Gobowen stations to test, the rest have seen VT 221s over the years.
I suspect a Central Rivers-Wrexham ECS for start of service would be faster via Lichfield and Crewe, as VT used to do.