RailAdventure Power Cars

[fgwrich]

Bit of a surprise after all these years, has the 3rd rail ban been because of the power cars or the coaches or do the buffered 43/4s make the difference I wonder, nice to see that RA have sent out their best looking pair to celebrate the occasion ....... 6Q43 due to pass Cambria Junction at 1406


43423 & 43467 working 0418 6Q43 Pelaw Junction to Dollands Moor Sidings with the barriers then 1920 0Q44 to Wembley HS

I don’t believe they are banned over the 3rd rail unless it’s a Kent and Sussex thing, considering the amount of times they’ve been to and from Arlington in Eastleigh!

More likely they’ve had no reason to clear them considering it must have been some years since a HST has ran into Kent if at all, and so haven’t been cleared as a result.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I don’t believe they are banned over the 3rd rail unless it’s a Kent and Sussex thing, considering the amount of times they’ve been to and from Arlington in Eastleigh!

More likely they’ve had no reason to clear them considering it must have been some years since a HST has ran into Kent if at all, and so haven’t been cleared as a result.

I'm wracking my brains to think whether a BR-era service to Dover WD or Priory ever produced an HST. I only knew it as 47/4 and 47/8 haulage.
The only HST on third rail photos I have, are the short-lived workings out of Waterloo, as "Eurostar onward connection".

 

[sprinterguy]

Bit of a surprise after all these years, has the 3rd rail ban been because of the power cars or the coaches or do the buffered 43/4s make the difference I wonder, nice to see that RA have sent out their best looking pair to celebrate the occasion ....... 6Q43 due to pass Cambria Junction at 1406

I think the ban was always to do with the coaches - obviously it's only fairly recently that power cars running on their own or hauling other stuff has been a thing.

I don’t believe they are banned over the 3rd rail unless it’s a Kent and Sussex thing, considering the amount of times they’ve been to and from Arlington in Eastleigh!

Mark 3 coaches can only work over third rail lines if the bogies are fitted with short swing links, as the long swing links originally fitted to earlier batches are considered to have insufficient clearance. No issues with power cars themselves running over third rail routes.

 

[ExRes]

Mark 3 coaches can only work over third rail lines if the bogies are fitted with short swing links, as the long swing links originally fitted to earlier batches are considered to have insufficient clearance. No issues with power cars themselves running over third rail routes.

Well done @sprinterguy the mention of 'short and long swing links' brings back memories of what I've heard before, nevertheless I'm off to the shops to get some candles in case the South East loses its electric supply this afternoon in a big flash and bang

 

[BRX]

It would be interesting to know if HSTs or their power cars have ever run into Kent before. There are other older threads that suggest they haven't.

 

[43096]

Bit of a surprise after all these years, has the 3rd rail ban been because of the power cars or the coaches or do the buffered 43/4s make the difference I wonder, nice to see that RA have sent out their best looking pair to celebrate the occasion ....... 6Q43 due to pass Cambria Junction at 1406


43423 & 43467 working 0418 6Q43 Pelaw Junction to Dollands Moor Sidings with the barriers then 1920 0Q44 to Wembley HS

I recall asking why they didn't run to DM two years ago...

It seems like the obvious thing to do if possible, saving a loco swap at Wembley and presumably keeping more of the work in house with RailAdventure.

I think the ban was always to do with the coaches - obviously it's only fairly recently that power cars running on their own or hauling other stuff has been a thing.

There has never been a ban as such, it is a matter of what is cleared to operate on any particular route. SSL fitted HSTs have been permitted on third rail lines for well over 30 years, LSL fitted vehicles not being permitted. On top of that there is the usual route clearance and there have never been a need to clear the South Eastern division until now. The LSL/SSL issue only applies to the trailer and it is just the power cars now cleared to Dollands Moor. This has been “in the works” for some time.

 

[43096]

Mark 3 coaches can only work over third rail lines if the bogies are fitted with short swing links, as the long swing links originally fitted to earlier batches are considered to have insufficient clearance. No issues with power cars themselves running over third rail routes.

The risk is more theoretical than anything else. It needs a combination of certain locations, air suspension failure etc etc for it to be even remotely close to contact.

 

[43096]

I'm wracking my brains to think whether a BR-era service to Dover WD or Priory ever produced an HST. I only knew it as 47/4 and 47/8 haulage.
The only HST on third rail photos I have, are the short-lived workings out of Waterloo, as "Eurostar onward connection".

You must have missed the daily runs down the South Western to Bournemouth and Poole that ran for well over a decade?

 

[Sun Chariot]

You must have missed the daily runs down the South Western to Bournemouth and Poole that ran for well over a decade?

So certainly not Kent then (posts #448 and #455)

What route did those services take? And where did they start from? I'm mulling if they would have passed through Oxford, when I frequented it 1991 to 1993. All the Bournemouth and Poole turns I remember, were 47/8 hauled.

 

[BRX]

nice to see that RA have sent out their best looking pair to celebrate the occasion

I see what you mean!

On the South London Line, ten minutes ago:

 

[sprinterguy]

What route did those services take? And where did they start from? I'm mulling if they would have passed through Oxford, when I frequented it 1991 to 1993. All the Bournemouth and Poole turns I remember, were 47/8 hauled.

Via Basingstoke, Reading and Oxford (as per the current Crosscountry services to Bournemouth), originating or terminating at any one of Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle or Edinburgh at various times.

HSTs were introduced onto certain Bournemouth (and Poole) services from July 1991, after sets had been freed up by ECML electrification.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2025 ==

The risk is more theoretical than anything else. It needs a combination of certain locations, air suspension failure etc etc for it to be even remotely close to contact.

Yeah, that was my understanding that it would only potentially be an issue in a "worst case scenario" type of situation.

 

[Sun Chariot]

HSTs were introduced onto certain Bournemouth (and Poole) services from July 1991, after sets had been freed up by ECML elelectrification

Thanks @sprinterguy I suspect there were examples passing me at Oxford - although my attention was far more upon loco hauled passenger and freight workings, plus venerable class 104 power cars operating Thames Trains.

 

[sprinterguy]

Thanks @sprinterguy I suspect there were examples passing me at Oxford - although my attention was far more upon loco hauled passenger and freight workings, plus venerable class 104 power cars operating Thames Trains.

Yeah it was only a comparatively small number of the XC services on that corridor that were HST worked, from what I can recall.

 

[adc82140]

Also don't forget the Waterloo-Penzance via Basingstoke blockade busters for FGW about a decade or so ago.

 

[43096]

Yeah it was only a comparatively small number of the XC services on that corridor that were HST worked, from what I can recall.

The base service was two Edinburgh-Bournemouth which went back to Manchester, two Manchester-Bournemouth which went back to Edinburgh and a Newcastle-Poole which overnighted at Eastleigh before working a morning Poole-Newcastle. So five trains each way per day.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Also don't forget the Waterloo-Penzance via Basingstoke blockade busters for FGW about a decade or so ago.

Virgin also ran Blackpool North to Portsmouth Harbour services using a mix of 158s, HSTs and 47s. HSTs certainly ran during 1999 and these ran over third rail between Reading and Wokingham and Aldershot South Junction through to Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[alistairlees]

At Tonbridge 20 minutes ago

 

[adc82140]

Blimey, the paint shop beckons for that pair soon, surely.

 

[Supercoss]

relevant to the thread. SSL short swing link pictured ( wire rope) , other type is LSL long swing link - which type fitted was painted on data panel at gangway end of Mark 3 coaching stock as either LSL or SSL

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Blimey, the paint shop beckons for that pair soon, surely.

Any idea when those 43s will be painted?

 

[UP13]

I see what you mean!

On the South London Line, ten minutes ago:

A little bit of me sad is to see a pair of once majestic race horses being relegated to the donkey work.

 

[ExRes]

A little bit of me sad is to see a pair of once majestic race horses being relegated to the donkey work.

Personally I don't see this as donkey work at all, they and the other two RA pairs have been saved from the scrapyard, or export to Mexico or Nigeria, to be used here on a regular basis, that's nothing other than a positive outcome for me

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2025 ==

Any idea when those 43s will be painted?

As and when they can be spared and, presumably, a very busy Arlingtons can fit them in, the only slight surprise for me was that one of the other pairs weren't used yesterday for RailAdventure brand advertising especially with all the photos that were taken of the Class 43 debut in Kent



43468 & 43480 worked 1145 0K85 Kings Norton OTPD to Kidderminster SVR for the Spring Diesel Festival from 15th to 18th May

43423 & 43467 working 1231 0G18 Wembley HS to Kings Norton OTPD

 

[43096]

As and when they can be spared and, presumably, a very busy Arlingtons can fit them in, the only slight surprise for me was that one of the other pairs weren't used yesterday for RailAdventure advertising especially with all the photos that were taken of the Class 43 debut in Kent

43468/480 are at Kidderminster for exam work, so that rules one pair out.

 

[RDP]

The question has been asked as to whether or not these were the first class 43s in Kent. The answer is no as 43014/62 were used in October and November 2011 for trials with the NMT on HS1. This is however the first daylight appearance and the first time on the classic lines.

 

[alistairlees]

When I was speaking with the crew I was told it was the first time in seven years that an HST had appeared in Kent, though I didn’t ask for the details.

 

[57Tonic]

Not strictly on topic but as mentioned above about short/long swing links. was there a reason for them and was it region specific eg.lner, western mk3s when built.

 

[Bill57p9]

Not strictly on topic but as mentioned above about short/long swing links. was there a reason for them and was it region specific eg.lner, western mk3s when built

My understanding (which may be wrong!) is that HSTs mk3s were all built with long swing links and there was no requirement for mk3s to operate on third rail territory. When HSTs began to be cascaded to Cross Country services, some of the stock was modified to allow travel over third rail territory.

I believe the mk3a sleeper batch was built with short swing links (sleepers through Kensington Olympia were a thing in the early 80s) though I couldn't tell you about the bulk of the LHCS mk3as.

Long swing links ride slightly better than short swing links.

 

[ExRes]

43423 & 43467 and 43465 & 43484 worked 0725 5S04 Kings Norton OTPD to Eastriggs MOD with NVAs 96602 & 96607 on the rear and carrying 'Vulture Squadron' headboard

 

[57Tonic]

Thanks Bill57p9 that all makes sense .

 

[Jacob Porrett]

43423 & 43467 and 43465 & 43480 working 0725 5S04 Kings Norton OTPD to Eastriggs MOD


* scheduled for tomorrows 0501 5Q88 to Long Marston and 1548 5M89 to Kings Norton OTPD

What are they collecting?