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The Faroe Islands tunnels

Meerkat

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Perhaps, but look what the Faroes have done with a 55k population. There's no excuse for Scotland to not build basic infrastructure,

mods note - split from this thread

The Faroes tunnelling is just mental, like an addiction. It’s presumably funded by Denmark but no idea how they keep the costs down, though I believe they and Norway have much laxer regulations than we have.
The excuse is that we aren’t talking about basic infrastructure, we are talking about incredibly expensive infrastructure for sparsely populated places.
 
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Struner

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The Faroes tunnelling is just mental, like an addiction. It’s presumably funded by Denmark but no idea how they keep the costs down, though I believe they and Norway have much laxer regulations than we have. […]
indeed: “presumably” & “I believe” - no substantiation :rolleyes:
 

Meerkat

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indeed: “presumably” & “I believe” - no substantiation :rolleyes:
Had a look around and it’s not totally clear but it looks like the Faroes tunnels are mainly funded by pretty high tolls - would those be accepted in Scotland considering the history of the Skye Bridge? Though the government put in a sizeable chunk of share capital at the start and I don’t think they get it back.
£100m for a near 11km undersea tunnel sounds a bit cheap - would you be allowed to build that as a single bore two way tunnel in this country? I have seen a vague plan somewhere for the Corran tunnel that had a concrete wall in the bore giving a walk/bike route that could be used as an emergency escape route but that’s going to add a lot of cost and bore size.
Norway don’t use the EU tunnel regs, and Faroes aren’t in the EU so don’t need to.
I know the Norwegians don’t routinely line their tunnels and have smaller cross sections.
A big question is geology of course…..
 
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Cloud Strife

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Had a look around and it’s not totally clear but it looks like the Faroes tunnels are mainly funded by pretty high tolls - would those be accepted in Scotland considering the history of the Skye Bridge?

The problem with the Skye Bridge was that the Tory government of the day had paid very little attention to the facts on the ground. It wasn't known by locals that the Kyle-Kyleakin service was very profitable for CalMac, and many locals on both sides were informally allowed to travel for free, especially if they could speak Gaelic to the crew.

Had the bridge been built as an ordinary public project, tolls would probably have been no more than a pound, which wouldn't have attracted any hostility at all. To charge £5.40 was a complete disgrace, and the failure to implement a Skye+Lochalsh toll as part of the PFI agreement was something that the locals never forgave. The discounted tickets did come later, but the damage had been done. It didn't help that people were getting prosecuted for blocking the toll booth, which was completely out of order and caused even more resentment among the islanders.

The high tolls wouldn't be a problem in itself if the financing was clear. It would need a full and honest discussion with the communities about what it will actually cost, but I don't think there would be any hostility to a tolling system that was operated in the same way that the Norwegian or Danish tolls are. There, the tolls are removed once the bridge or tunnel is paid off, and it's already happened that some tolls were paid off far quicker than expected, such as at the Nordkapp tunnel. In the Faroes, the situation is a bit more complicated: the politicians can't decide whether to make the tunnels toll-free now that the investments have been paid off, to keep a limited toll to pay for infrastructure, or to keep them the same and use the money for other road investments.

Having said that, at least two of the Faroese tunnels have had their price reduced progressively as they were paid off.

£100m for a near 11km undersea tunnel sounds a bit cheap - would you be allowed to build that as a single bore two way tunnel in this country?

From what I understand, the Faroese tunnels aren't compliant with the relevant EU Directive, which probably explains why they were able to build it a bit cheaper than elsewhere. Having said that, I believe that the Mont Blanc solution, where the area underneath the roadway was transformed into an escape route that utilises small rescue vehicles is perfectly acceptable and complies with the Directive. There's no need for a separate bore or parallel escape tunnel, and this system would be perfectly fine for rural tunnels with low amounts of vehicles daily.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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The recent tv series Martin Clunes' Islands of the Atlantic included a drive through one of these and featured the world's only undersea roundabout. Different coloured lighting is fitted to highlight the three different directions in case drivers become disorientated though of course Clunes deliberately went all the way round to demonstrate this. Brilliantly bonkers!
 

stuu

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The Faroes tunnelling is just mental, like an addiction. It’s presumably funded by Denmark but no idea how they keep the costs down, though I believe they and Norway have much laxer regulations than we have.
The excuse is that we aren’t talking about basic infrastructure, we are talking about incredibly expensive infrastructure for sparsely populated places.
The Faroes are made of solid rock, so they can tunnel through them using drill and blast, which is the cheapest tunnelling method. Basically a few people, some dynamite and a JCB to clear up the mess. And repeat. The tiny traffic numbers mean that they don't really need to worry about ventilation or escape, and anything hazardous will be given it's own path through with anyone else stopped for the duration. We have a terrible insistence on sticking to the rules, and don't do pragmatism. A tunnel in the Shetlands does not need the same safety features as a tunnel on the M25, but our rules don't allow that
 

yorksrob

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The Faroes are made of solid rock, so they can tunnel through them using drill and blast, which is the cheapest tunnelling method. Basically a few people, some dynamite and a JCB to clear up the mess. And repeat. The tiny traffic numbers mean that they don't really need to worry about ventilation or escape, and anything hazardous will be given it's own path through with anyone else stopped for the duration. We have a terrible insistence on sticking to the rules, and don't do pragmatism. A tunnel in the Shetlands does not need the same safety features as a tunnel on the M25, but our rules don't allow that

Definitely sounds like one of those things where we could learn from our European neighbours.

Presumably Orkney and Shetland are similar geologically to the Faroes ?
 

Baxenden Bank

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The Lowari Tunnels (Wikipedia link) in Pakistan are a combined 10.4 kilometres (6.5 mile) long. Without ventilation or parallel escape tunnels as I understand it. I guess they apply different standards. It was originally planned as a railway tunnel which is the reason I came across it.

Some edited detail from Wikipedia:
A vehicular tunnel under the Lowari Pass of the Hindu Kush mountains, between Dir and Chitral in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan.
Tunnel 1: 8.5 kilometres (5.3 mi)
Tunnel 2: 1.9 kilometres (1.2 mi)
 

Cloud Strife

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I can't find anything, but I wonder if the Faroese tunnels have the same situation as the Mont Blanc tunnel had before the 1999, where the area beneath the roadway was used for ventilation ducts. Those ducts were how the firefighters stuck in Mont Blanc were able to escape, although they had to be rescued as the doors had been inexplicably locked from the tunnel side.

A tunnel in the Shetlands does not need the same safety features as a tunnel on the M25, but our rules don't allow that

And this is really a huge problem. It's idiocy to compare tunnels in urban areas with those that might only have a few hundred vehicles a day.
 

thejuggler

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Having been to the Faeroes a few years ago (and experiencing one of the tunnels that had only just opened) it makes perfect sense to provide tunnels. Nowhere in the UK is comparable.

The Faeroes is largely a closed community for much of the year, you certainly don't 'pass through'!

In such a very harsh environment with limited opportunities on each island, inter island transport is vital - ferries don't work in the middle of winter storms - so tunnels will be making a huge difference to island life.
 

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