Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[duffield]

While appreciating that they are dealing with very different traffic volumes from central Manchester, the Kirnitschtalbahn and several other continental tramways would beg to differ!

I'm talking about trams and other road vehicles literally flowing in opposite directions in the same lane on the same road at the same time. I'm finding it difficult to understand how that is possible in any country. If you're talking about very short light controlled sections where opposite flows cross then I can understand that though.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Apart from the work site issues, is the closed section (not just the bit actually being worked on) entirely segregated? If some of it is mixed with road traffic, you can't have trams going against the flow without road closures, even if the tram infrastructure technically allows it.

I haven't used the Manchester trams enough to remember if this is an issue or not.

There's none of that in the city centre, but there is on the Manchester Airport, Eccles, Trafford Centre, and Ashton lines.

 

[toms]

The tram signals and the loops that trigger the traffic signals are positioned according to the directions the trams are expected to run, so won't work for wrong direction moves unless they have been designed in.

I think you meant to quote a post further up lol

 

[edwin_m]

I think you meant to quote a post further up lol

It was a reaction to your mention of three road crossings.

 

[The exile]

I'm talking about trams and other road vehicles literally flowing in opposite directions in the same lane on the same road at the same time. I'm finding it difficult to understand how that is possible in any country. If you're talking about very short light controlled sections where opposite flows cross then I can understand that though.

Believe it or not, so am I. Normal road vehicles just have to take avoiding action. The difference is in the traffic volumes, of course.

 

[507 001]

Was it not possible to have some form of single-line working to maintain a skeleton service?

If you want the work to take twice as long then yes, I guess you could.

There's none of that in the city centre, but there is on the Manchester Airport, Eccles, Trafford Centre, and Ashton lines.

Yes there is, Mosley Street inbound and most of 2CC.

 

[duffield]

Believe it or not, so am I. Normal road vehicles just have to take avoiding action. The difference is in the traffic volumes, of course.

Wow. Extraordinary!

 

[507 001]

Wow. Extraordinary!

Yeah that’s never happening here


*at least, not intentionally…

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No trams currently running between Droylsden and Ashton-under-Lyne.

A broken down tram at Ashton Moss is cited.

 

[edwin_m]

Believe it or not, so am I. Normal road vehicles just have to take avoiding action. The difference is in the traffic volumes, of course.

Yeah that’s never happening here


*at least, not intentionally…

Where the Blackpool trams duck temporarily inland past the Metropole Hotel (just north of North Pier) they now have a reservation for both tracks on the western half of the road. But I recall back in the 80s these tracks were where they are now (at least approximately) but the whole road was accessible to other traffic with little or nothing in the way of lines to direct it round the trams.

 

[cool110]

But I recall back in the 80s these tracks were where they are now (at least approximately) but the whole road was accessible to other traffic with little or nothing in the way of lines to direct it round the trams.

That lasted all the way up until the introduction of the Flexity fleet, you can even see it on street view if you set it back to 2009. That one did actually have directly oncoming traffic, since the southbound track ran through the northbound right turning lane for Springfield Road.

 

[edwin_m]

That lasted all the way up until the introduction of the Flexity fleet, you can even see it on street view if you set it back to 2009. That one did actually have directly oncoming traffic, since the southbound track ran through the northbound right turning lane for Springfield Road.


View attachment 181032

Thanks for that. I've a feeling back in 1983 when I first visited there wasn't even that sort of road marking.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Yes there is, Mosley Street inbound and most of 2CC.

Not entirely sure what I was thinking there!
How did I forget 2CC being almost entirely on road!

 

[Class 466]

Greater Manchester’s £2.5 billion funding boost to unlock UK’s first fully integrated, zero-emission public transport network

Looks like Metrolink will be expanding beyond its current 99 stop network - assume they’ll be making use of what is currently the East Lancs Railway?

 

[jfollows]

Greater Manchester’s £2.5 billion funding boost to unlock UK’s first fully integrated, zero-emission public transport network

Looks like Metrolink will be expanding beyond its current 99 stop network - assume they’ll be making use of what is currently the East Lancs Railway?

No chance. Additional stops on the Bury line.

£15bn Improvements around UK

A number of news outlets have been given Heads Up that Chancellor will give go ahead for number of transport capital projects today Trams form the backbone of the investment plans, with Greater Manchester getting £2.5bn to extend its network to Stockport and add stops in Bury, Manchester and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No chance. Additional stops on the Bury line.

£15bn Improvements around UK

A number of news outlets have been given Heads Up that Chancellor will give go ahead for number of transport capital projects today Trams form the backbone of the investment plans, with Greater Manchester getting £2.5bn to extend its network to Stockport and add stops in Bury, Manchester and...

www.railforums.co.uk

To connect Bury with Rochdale, Oldham and Heywood using tram trains? You sure about that?

 

[duffield]

Greater Manchester’s £2.5 billion funding boost to unlock UK’s first fully integrated, zero-emission public transport network

Looks like Metrolink will be expanding beyond its current 99 stop network - assume they’ll be making use of what is currently the East Lancs Railway?

I hope the ELR won't lose the use of Bury-Heywood, but I find it difficult to see how they could possibly share this route with some sort of fairly intensive tram/train service.

 

[jfollows]

To connect Bury with Rochdale, Oldham and Heywood using tram trains? You sure about that?

Well, let’s wait until it’s not speculative, for now!

And I forgot where Heywood is also, sorry!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Was wondering if the locos and various coaching stock on the East Lancs Railway might be having a canary yellow makeover?!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I hope the ELR won't lose the use of Bury-Heywood, but I find it difficult to see how they could possibly share this route with some sort of fairly intensive tram/train service.

At one time, I heard that the ELR wanted to complete that particular line section to the area near to Castleton station.

 

[sefyllian]

MEN has more details including confirmation of tram-trains, extension to Stockport, and the locations of the new stations:

The government announcement paves the way for Metrolink trams to FINALLY run to Stockport town centre after years of campaigning, as well the purchasing of 1,000 new electric Bee Network buses.

It also includes three stops on existing tram lines - in Manchester, Bury and Oldham. It is understood they will be Sandhills in north Manchester; Elton Reservoir in Bury; and Cop Road in Oldham.

Plans for new city centre and Leigh interchanges are also being worked up. And tram-trains will soon be on their way to parts of the region, travelling along Metrolink lines AND and rail tracks.

The new tram stop in Sandhills will form part of Manchester’s £3.8bn Victoria North project, a ‘new town’ of 15,000 homes that will be built across 155 hectares from Angel Meadow in the city centre to Collyhurst in north Manchester.

It takes its name from the Sandhills park and former quarry, and would sit between Victoria and Queens Road stations, one of the longest gaps between Metrolink halts.

A similar line of thinking is employed for the new Elton Reservoir stop, falling between Radcliffe and Bury.

A new station on Cop Road, in Oldham, would be built between the Derker station and Shaw and Crompton stop, and like Elton Reservoir is identified as a priority in Andy Burnham’s controversial Places for Everyone plan with 1,450 homes eyed for the location.

Tram-trains are also also set to come to Oldham, as TfGM added it will roll-out the hybrid services to the borough along with Rochdale, Heywood, and Bury. The tech sees services run on traditional tramlines for some parts of the network, but on railway lines using batteries for others.

 

[TheSmiths82]

According to Place North West the Stockport extension will be from East Didsbury which is by far the most logical and probably useful route, but does anybody know the exact cuttings since most of the original line has been built on. Obviously running down Didsbury Road is not practical.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Obviously running down Didsbury Road is not practical.

Too narrow / busy / congested?

 

[TheSmiths82]

Too narrow / busy / congested?

Yep and too hilly, I am not sure the hills are an issue as such though but I have known buses to sometimes struggle down there. I always thought Manchester Road in Cheadle would be a good route, then down Stockport Road via Cheadle Health and Edgeley. It would give Cheadle Village a much improved transport boost too but I think that would be far too costly and the journey may be too slow compared to following a path similar to the original Didsbury to Stockport line.

 

[Ethano92]

According to Place North West the Stockport extension will be from East Didsbury which is by far the most logical and probably useful route, but does anybody know the exact cuttings since most of the original line has been built on. Obviously running down Didsbury Road is not practical.

I remember seeing a map that showed it would follow the old rail alignment as far as Heaton Mersey, cross the river close to where the M60 does and skirt around the north of Edgely to terminate along the bus interchange. I’m not sure if that was an official map or an enthusiasts suggestion but I would assume the latter.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm a little confused by this tram train scheme.

What route is it taking?
Is it Bury into Manchester, then along the railway to Rochdale and then tram to Oldham?

Or is it using the ELR, in which case won't they end up in a prolonged fight to seize the ELR alignment?
I can't see electrification of the heritage line without taking control of it, and I can't see diesel tram trains being compatible with the zero carbon stuff scattered through the rest of the proposal

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

According to Place North West the Stockport extension will be from East Didsbury which is by far the most logical and probably useful route, but does anybody know the exact cuttings since most of the original line has been built on. Obviously running down Didsbury Road is not practical.

I've tried to game this out in the past.
Best I came up with was running down to the banks of the Mersey

 

[AlastairFraser]

Yep and too hilly, I am not sure the hills are an issue as such though but I have known buses to sometimes struggle down there. I always thought Manchester Road in Cheadle would be a good route, then down Stockport Road via Cheadle Health and Edgeley. It would give Cheadle Village a much improved transport boost too but I think that would be far too costly and the journey may be too slow compared to following a path similar to the original Didsbury to Stockport line.

I think it will be mostly the old alignment as far as Heaton Mersey (as another poster above suggested).
TfGM have a 2040 strategy map for Metrolink somewhere and Cheadle Hulme/Cheadle are connected to Hazel Grove using the current freight only branch towards Northenden Junction in part.
That will provide the major east west links across the south of Stockport metropolitan borough.

 

[jfollows]

I'm a little confused by this tram train scheme.

What route is it taking?
It is Bury into Manchester, then along the railway to Rochdale and then tram to Oldham?

Or is it using the ELR, in which case won't they end up in a prolonged fight to seize the ELR alignment?
I can't see electrification of the heritage line without taking control of it, and I can't see diesel tram trains being compatible with the zero carbon stuff scattered through the rest of the proposal

I got confused also, it’ll be along the freight-only line Bury-Castleton through Heywood, partly used by the ELR these days. Maybe the formation is wide enough for the two to coexist? Plus apparently only Oldham-Heywood ‘initially’ anyway.

 

[duffield]

I got confused also, it’ll be along the freight-only line Bury-Castleton through Heywood, partly used by the ELR these days. Maybe the formation is wide enough for the two to coexist? Plus apparently only Oldham-Heywood ‘initially’ anyway.

Just going as far as Heywood they could potentially share the station with the ELR. The single platform is currently 225m approx (10 x MK1 coaches + loco!), with even some scope to extend so I'm sure you could convert the south-east end to a tram stop, shorten the ELR run-round loop and have them co-exist. OHLE probably wouldn't be an issue since I'd expect the new tram-trains to be BEMUs.

Getting beyond Heywood to run the tram-trains to Bury Interchange it gets trickier, even with just a single track for the tram-train.

 

[HSTEd]

Just going as far as Heywood they could potentially share the station with the ELR. The single platform is currently 225m approx (10 x MK1 coaches + loco!), with even some scope to extend so I'm sure you could convert the south-east end to a tram stop, shorten the ELR run-round loop and have them co-exist. OHLE probably wouldn't be an issue since I'd expect the new tram-trains to be BEMUs.

Getting beyond Heywood to run the tram-trains to Bury Interchange it gets trickier, even with just a single track for the tram-train.

I think the only way it works is if they build a single tram platform on the line into the ELR Bury station where it crosses the current tram route.

It is just about close enough for it to be called the same station.
I can't imagine its going to be a particularly high intensity, useful, service.