LNR/WMR will only benefit from about 3 miles of faster speed limits between Queens Park and Willesden North - meaning they can accelerate to 110mph earlier, and then around 5 miles of additional 110mph running north of Rugby - where 100mph is the PS limit.
What does PS stand for?
Permissible Speed, the "basic" speed limit
Thanks, thought it might have done.
It is listed in the WON, Section C.
Liverpool Avanti driver on another forum claims nothing has been announced to them yet. No training either.
Wow. Only just seen this. Thanks for posting. Very interesting indeed.
The WON only lists the pre existing MU speeds & I checked the latest PON with the same results. The new MU boards are remaining covered but the on line Sectional Appendix was checked & no new MU line speeds have been included. There is no agreement in place with regards to road learning, nor are there any timescales or materials produced. The preferred MU speed "risk mitigation" is by use of DAS, but that is also a way off being functional & again, no agreements or retrospective method of working has been discussed. Its still a pipe dream.
That is astonishing on one level, but highly predictable on another.
Yes, but the oldest 390s are 20 years old, and worked pretty hard. I reckon the oldest will run out of C4 or C6 miles and be stored by maybe 2035. When they start to go then TASS will be switched off in my opinion
Don't underestimate the "influence" of DfT on these decisions. It would appear that they now want to micromanage situations they themselves have allowed, even encouraged, to develop. Even with MU speeds, I doubt the 80x fleet will match 390 timings on anything other than former Voyager & current West Midlands workings. They just dont have the marathon legs.
Voyagers had TASS but operated at some slightly lower EPS speeds on bends, but still consistently faster than many proposed MU speed profiles. Switching TASS off has been a growing background murmur. I would like to know from someone in the know if reducing the 390 fleet to PS or MU speeds non tilt would save on infrastructure wear & costs.
They will run out of miles to next C4/C6 (or equivalent) long before then. It doesn’t mean they will be withdrawn though.
I believe the 807s are about seven minutes slower than the 390s as far as timings go, so even here where they are arguably the least competitive they still manage to have a respectably similar journey time.
These two services are already two of the three regular daytime workings of the 805/807s with the third being the current Liverpool trains that are only about seven minutes slower than the 390. They might not have the marathon legs but they were never designed to. Their purpose was simply to replace the 221s on the Chester/North Wales route as well as the 390s on the Birmingham semi-fast which it is better suited for, and to run alongside the 390s on half-hourly Liverpool services.
I don't see TASS being turned off while 390s remain the bulk of the WCML InterCity traffic, but it definitely won't be renewed or updated once HS2 opens and tilting trains are no longer required. Any future use of the Pendolino will most likely be without tilting function if they have any further use at all; by the mid-2030s when HS2 begins operation they'll be reaching retirement.
Yes & No. The Hitachi IEP is a long distance HS train, but the WCML doesn't particularly suit their shoe horning into the post VHF timetable style of ops alongside tilting trains. Its not necessarily a fudge, but it is what is now available. If in the new order of things costs outweigh the benefits of tilt, it will go.
But how likely is that actually to be the case? What would be the cost of disabling and dismantling an entire smart tilt signalling system (including removal of balise systems) specially engineered in the mid-2000s modernisation to enable fastest possible operation of the principle InterCity rolling stock compared to just letting the Pendolinos reach the end of their lifespan and removing it more gradually once HS2 is operational?
The quickest way is to isolate the TASS on the 390 & leave the balises in situ or until track renewals see them lifted. (I remember seeing APT transponders in the 4 ft until the WCRM scheme renewed lots of track.) There would be no cost. I believe this was done to the XC 221 fleet. Of course, what I have not factored in is the introduction of in cab signalling. We don't yet know how HS2 fleets will integrate with the legacy network signaling wise. There is the prospect of some, or at least one, WCML line(s) being converted to ERTMS in the not too distant future, but that will require retrofitting of fleets with ERTMS equipment (something that appears easier to do on the 80x fleet).
Fair enough I suppose but I still don't expect TASS to be disabled or removed until HS2 is operational or the Pendolino reach the end of their lifespan, whichever comes first. I think CrossCountry Voyagers had their tilt disabled partially due to how little tilting they did over the bulk of their routes? Someone will have to fact check me on that one. HS2 trains meanwhile will likely be compatible with AWS as well as ETCS since it'll be a while before the whole network is able to be fully transitioned. In either case I don't expect the Multiple Unit profile to be the max speed on the line for quite some time.
I think the TASS system was actually a late 1990s design and implemented on a small stretch of Cherwell Valley near chez Branson, as well as the WCML. The 221s were entering service in 2001, just months after the first (non tilt) 220s and from memory tilting was active from maybe 2002 onwards. By October 2007 I believe the XC organisation wanted the TASS and tilt system on their 221s and when Arriva won the XC franchise, one of the first wishes was to have Bombardier isolate the system from the XC fleet. AIUI the rams etc were replaced by straight bars and stored somewhere. In the last few months the ex AWC 221s for XC have been "XC ized" but not sure about 221101-221106, nor the GC pair 221142/143.
Absolutely not. They are really good trains, and below the solebar they appear to be pretty bulletproof. But they are growing older year by year, and maybe the beancounters will decide they need replacing irrespective ofwhat happens with HS2.
Well, thank you for the history lesson! I suspected CrossCountry would want all Voyagers to be TASS-isolated but I didn't realise it was implemented elsewhere before the WCML. I don't expect it would've been suited in many other places though.
I also don't think Alstom would support continued and newer versions of it either, especially with line speeds being increased across the network without the need for tilting trains. After the 390s I don't see any more appearing on the network even if they became maintenance or measurement units.
On the short XC section in the Cherwell Valley, where TASS was installed, the timetable had to be written for either 220 or 221, as the unit diagramming was fairly random (as it still is). So it was only ever useful to make up time.
They are fairly reliable. However... The internal refurb was done down to budget & although the bogie refurb program is complete the trains are beginning to exhibit signs of component failure. You do need to have a bad day to fail completely, but sets regularly enter service with "concessions" to cover already defective equipment. There may be issues with replacement of (relatively minor) components no longer available. To be fair the 80x fleet has also its share of serviceability issues which are more of an annoyance rather than impacting operations.
Running a pendo at MU or PS would make little difference.
There is still an ATP balise in the down cess by Leighton Buzzard OHNS.
The signs between Crewe and Weaver and due to be uncovered ready for possession hand back Sunday…
