Labour Spending Review

[FMerrymon]

The price tag for MRH is £1.75 Bn, which you'd think would eat up half of the available budget and build both curves from Moor Street towards Coleshill and Kings Norton.
However, the precise wording is "Funding to progress the next stage of Midlands Rail Hub West"

This does not read like an irrevocable commitment to deliver the entire scheme from out of this £3.5bn.

Ah, OK, that's quite a bit different to what I understood!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Midland Rail Hub was announced, that must be part of the 3.5bn.

That was quoted out of the City Regions settlements but is that funding separate from DfT capital pot as its delivered by the mayors combined authorities

 

[Jan Mayen]

I wonder how much more than inflation the fares will increase by to pay for this.
Or even, when will they be increased.

 

[ainsworth74]

Postponing infrastructure is great because it doesn't actually save money but you do get the benefits later rather than sooner.

Sort of nonsense that HM Treasury loves. Make sure the in year budget is stuck to but then end up spending far more overall because you're spending it over a longer time and in a less efficient way. They love that stuff.

 

[chris2]

In Sept 24, Midlands Connect said the following about the Midlands Rail Hub project in their document On Track For Delivery...

>> 2024 >> Funding for Full Business Case (South & West facing services) announced in Feb 24

We will be coming back to Government in 2025 to seek funding to allow the entirety of Midlands Rail Hub to be developed to Full Business Case, including the section from Birmingham to Derby & Nottingham which was expected to be served by HS2 but now forms a key component of Midlands Rail Hub.

So from this, I would assume that the funding commitment is at a minimum the total required to develop the Full Business Case for the whole scheme.

And on delivery, same doc says...

Midlands Connect expects the west-facing part of the scheme to open in the early 2030s with the east-facing part following by the mid- 2030s.

If we're talking opening in 2030-3, construction on the West project would presumably have to start some time towards the end of this SR period.

 

[Palmerston]

Is that sarcasm (to coin a Sheldon Cooper question)?

Sorry, yes, lowest form of wit and all that

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Theres another supporting document to spending review

Spending Review 2025: Departmental Efficiency Plans

Not a lot of specifics but some words indicating that DfT is to be slimmed down in the rail arena as GBR takes over so hopefully a positive step to letting the industry get on with running things

DfT will drive efficiencies through the streamlining of governance and processes within the rail sector. For example, the transfer of rail services into public ownership over the coming years will release efficiencies as DfT moves from several owning groups to one. This will remove duplication of functions and 30 create economies of scale. DfT also aims to consolidate rail websites and ticketing, enabling efficiencies in operational running costs.

 

[BrianW]

Ah, OK, that's quite a bit different to what I understood!

Indeed EVERY word is important. I don't imagine the Chancellor's words have had a 5% reduction in attention of Sir Humphrey- everything in the fullness of time, in the programme to be announced when the time is right. No smoke without mirrors?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

TfL settlement is £2.2billion over 4 years.
Not mentioned in the statement but also will be:

£240 million to enhance Leeds station, improving capacity and relieving congestion

That's an awful lot to spend on one single station! Those much be some capacity improvements!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Sort of nonsense that HM Treasury loves. Make sure the in year budget is stuck to but then end up spending far more overall because you're spending it over a longer time and in a less efficient way. They love that stuff.

Cynical but absolutely spot on!

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

That's an awful lot to spend on one single station! Those much be some capacity improvements!

Indeed. Surely more than just the extension of P17 (and the shuffling of the lift to make more space).

Is it the rumoured changes to the western approaches to separate out Harrogate and Aire/Wharfe triangle services from the rest? (See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...uilt-into-leeds-station-from-the-west.282115/ )

 

[mpthomson]

I don't wish to put a wet blanket on things, but I will.

Are we all sure that these figures are ADDITIONAL funds or just the release of the next tranche of cash for pre existing projects?

A lot of it had already been announced by the previous government. When this one came into power they stopped a lot of projects, and now they've simply restarted them.

I would put very good money on it being releasing the next tranche of cash for pre-existing projects. No way can it be new money.

Most of it isn't.

 

[quantinghome]

That's an awful lot to spend on one single station! Those much be some capacity improvements!

Not really. The last capacity improvement at Leeds cost £160m only a few years ago. That was for one extra platform and track remodelling. £240m doesn't get you much these days.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Not really. The last capacity improvement at Leeds cost £160m only a few years ago. That was for one extra platform and track remodelling. £240m doesn't get you much these days.

Not in construction generally and especially not when it comes to rail construction.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Wellington (Som.) is go!

Wellington

THE go-ahead for a new railway station for Wellington was confirmed this week after an anxious wait following Chancellor Rachel Reeves announcement in Parliament on the outcome of a Government spending review.
Ms Reeves did not make any mention of the £15 million Wellington project in her address to MPs but the Treasury later confirmed the news to the Wellington Weekly.

(Just need Cullompton and Tavistock now).

 

[Revilo]

Nothing for Portishead? Maybe that will be just before the next General Election (Portishead voted Labour for the first time in 2024). Though they will probably have spent all of the taxpayers’ money by then.

 

[The exile]

Nothing for Portishead? Maybe that will be just before the next General Election (Portishead voted Labour for the first time in 2024). Though they will probably have spent all of the taxpayers’ money by then.

There’s still the detail to come in the infrastructure report next week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

Wellington (Som.) is go!

Wellington



(Just need Cullompton and Tavistock now).

Cullompton also confirmed by the Treasury, according to the BBC.

 

[BrianW]

There’s still the detail to come in the infrastructure report next week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==


Cullompton also confirmed by the Treasury, according to the BBC.

Some detail maybe. and more detail when the next 'good news' announcement is programmed, and/or to bury a 'bad news' story?

 

[aron2smith]

Sort of nonsense that HM Treasury loves. Make sure the in year budget is stuck to but then end up spending far more overall because you're spending it over a longer time and in a less efficient way. They love that stuff.

This is literally every big project in this country. Neighbouring countries like France and Spain just got on with it with their high speed rail infrastructure, Spain in particular has a really extensive network now with some towns even getting a rail service for the first time. In Britain, we argued about HS2, stop start stop start, which breaks the supply chain and disrupts the work force and we wonder why it became so expensive! Uncertainty and indecisiveness is very expensive! I still can't believe how uncertain the whole thing was whilst the Tories were in power, must've been so frustrating working on HS2 not knowing what will happen next!

We must finish HS2 to at least Phase 2a (Crewe), so the scheme Rotherham and Burnham are so keen on, has a logical connection.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

There’s still the detail to come in the infrastructure report next week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==


Cullompton also confirmed by the Treasury, according to the BBC.

Good! Wellington too according to the report.

C'mon Tavistock should be next, less than 5 miles from Bere Alston but would make such a difference to the town having a railway again.

Hopefully we'll hear more about Portishead branch line soon too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not really. The last capacity improvement at Leeds cost £160m only a few years ago. That was for one extra platform and track remodelling. £240m doesn't get you much these days.

Yikes that is scary. You can see why the DfT Treasury don't like railways.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

C'mon Tavistock should be next, less than 5 miles from Bere Alston but would make such a difference to the town having a railway again.

There is however just a teensy difference between opening a new station on an existing railway (where the station itself is basically the only thing you need to build), and building a whole new railway line (even one that is less than 5 miles)

 

[Annetts key]

This is literally every big project in this country. Neighbouring countries like France and Spain just got on with it with their high speed rail infrastructure, Spain in particular has a really extensive network now with some towns even getting a rail service for the first time. In Britain, we argued about HS2, stop start stop start, which breaks the supply chain and disrupts the work force and we wonder why it became so expensive! Uncertainty and indecisiveness is very expensive! I still can't believe how uncertain the whole thing was whilst the Tories were in power, must've been so frustrating working on HS2 not knowing what will happen next!

We must finish HS2 to at least Phase 2a (Crewe), so the scheme Rotherham and Burnham are so keen on, has a logical connection.

Absolutely agree.

Unfortunately exactly the same happens within Network Rail. Rather than there being a continuous programme of works that follows on from each stage straight onto the next stage, many projects are split into different phases that start, stop, restart, stop, restart etc. Sometimes even with different companies or contractors.

And with signalling work, where a scheme ends, it has to be tied into the remaining existing system. With the stop start, it’s not uncommon to rip out some equipment that was only recently installed because of the break in the work.

Once I was carrying out some maintenance work. I had to look at three sets of diagrams. The official maintenance copy (which was now out of date due to being inaccurate), and the diagrams showing the alterations for two different (small) projects. Each of which did not include the alterations for the other project. Both projects being done at approximately the same time using two different project teams...

Similarly, for both the Portishead line and the new Henbury station schemes, alterations to the new signalling that was only provided relatively recently (the new signalling controlled from TVSC ready for electrification) are required. So, just like the Bristol East Junction project, I expect more relatively new signals and other equipment to end up in a skip. Plus of course there are the costs of designers, installers and testers and all the other hours of labour for effectively redoing some of the work required again.

The problem being that to keep the budget within the target figure, there may be little or no consideration of the plans for the future. Each project is in its own bubble.

 

[The exile]

Similarly, for both the Portishead line and the new Henbury station schemes, alterations to the new signalling that was only provided relatively recently (the new signalling controlled from TVSC ready for electrification) are required. So, just like the Bristol East Junction project, I expect more relatively new signals and other equipment to end up in a skip. Plus of course there are the costs of designers, installers and testers and all the other hours of labour for effectively redoing some of the work required again.

Doesn’t even have to be anything as dramatic as a line reopening. I’ll be fascinated to see if the promised lift can be installed at Lawrence Hill without moving the platform end signal.

 

[aron2smith]

There is however just a teensy difference between opening a new station on an existing railway (where the station itself is basically the only thing you need to build), and building a whole new railway line (even one that is less than 5 miles)

I strongly agree but sooner or later we are going to either reuse former rail alignments or create new ones. Whether that is on the national network like Tavistock would be or a more local/ regional thing like extending the Tyne and Wear Metro to Washington. Sooner or later, plans of a bigger scale will be needed. We do it in London, the rest of the country should be enabled to do similar.

Back to Tavistock, the old alignment to the edge of the town seems clear of development, just deciding where to put the station is the hard bit and whether it's likely it would be extended further in the future (Okehampton), or would have Intercity requiring an alternative to via Dawlish in the future. The old route would be no good at all if that was the case. A lot of what if's? there but Tavistock has grown a lot since the 2 railways closed and any future growth needs a railway as traffic is a nightmare and the bus to Plymouth as nice a route as it is, is too slow! Quite a few towns around the country in the same boat too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

Unfortunately exactly the same happens within Network Rail. Rather than there being a continuous programme of works that follows on from each stage straight onto the next stage, many projects are split into different phases that start, stop, restart, stop, restart etc. Sometimes even with different companies or contractors.

And with signalling work, where a scheme ends, it has to be tied into the remaining existing system. With the stop start, it’s not uncommon to rip out some equipment that was only recently installed because of the break in the work.

Once I was carrying out some maintenance work. I had to look at three sets of diagrams. The official maintenance copy (which was now out of date due to being inaccurate), and the diagrams showing the alterations for two different (small) projects. Each of which did not include the alterations for the other project. Both projects being done at approximately the same time using two different project teams...

The problem being that to keep the budget within the target figure, there may be little or no consideration of the plans for the future. Each project is in its own bubble.

What a mad system, thanks for the comments. Sounds like a lot has to change and who knows if the government can fix this. The government having 3 to 4 year settlements and 10 year funding for key policies in the spending review has to help to start alleviating all these problems surely. I've never worked in the railway but what you are describing seems similar to how councils waste things, just so much is outsourced which complicates things leading to stupid and wasteful decisions where no one is accountable, silo thinking etc. In my opinion, being forced to think short term really doesn't help any of it!

 

[68000]

Once I was carrying out some maintenance work. I had to look at three sets of diagrams. The official maintenance copy (which was now out of date due to being inaccurate), and the diagrams showing the alterations for two different (small) projects. Each of which did not include the alterations for the other project. Both projects being done at approximately the same time using two different project teams...

One of the projects will have the records booked out from NRG for their work and the other project is meant to seek an Overlapping Design Agreement with the project that has the records which is meant to avoid situations you describe. It can only work if people do their job properly but clearly they did not.

 

[brad465]

Cullompton also confirmed by the Treasury, according to the BBC.

Good! Wellington too according to the report.

C'mon Tavistock should be next, less than 5 miles from Bere Alston but would make such a difference to the town having a railway again.

Hopefully we'll hear more about Portishead branch line soon too.

Interestingly in the BBC article there's an image of a group of locals who travelled to meet the Rail Minister, and one of the men photographed (on the far-left up the front) in it looks like one of the central figures involved in the looking increasingly-doomed Go-Op Open-access operation:

Wellington and Cullompton railway stations approved

The Treasury confirms funding for the stations in Devon and Somerset is in the spending review.

www.bbc.co.uk

(image of crowd of Wellington town residents hold placards with a Wellington BR logo on infront of a minibus)

 

[Djgr]

A lot of it had already been announced by the previous government. When this one came into power they stopped a lot of projects, and now they've simply restarted them.

Is this true? I thought a lot of projects that were stopped were part of BoJos "let's reverse Beeching" project.

 

[fandroid]

Yikes that is scary. You can see why the DfT Treasury don't like railways.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2025 ==

Road schemes cost an absolute packet too. Relatively modest local "improvements" are £ multimillion jobs.

 

[Nottingham59]

Can we say what the £2.5 billion confirmed for East-West Rail might cover? With the total cost to Cambridge being around £6bn, does this imply the start of construction beyond Bedford? Or just completing the works to Bedford?

 

[Magdalia]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2025 ==

Road schemes cost an absolute packet too. Relatively modest local "improvements" are £ multimillion jobs.

Near Cambridge the Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet project is a bit over 10 miles long and is costing £1bn.

Works to start on major £1 billion transformation of Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet route

New dual carriageway to reduce congestion and improve journey times between Milton Keynes and Cambridge.

www.gov.uk

Works to start on major £1 billion transformation of Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet route​

New dual carriageway to reduce congestion and improve journey times between Milton Keynes and Cambridge.