Redunant wagons outside Leeds

[_toommm_]

Next to Leeds West Junction, there's 10-20 red wagons, possibly coal hoppers, that have been extant for at least a year. I've never seen a train arrive or depart from that yard.

Does anyone know what the yard is called, and if the wagons are officially withdrawn please?

 

[D6130]

Next to Leeds West Junction, there's 10-20 red wagons, possibly coal hoppers, that have been extant for at least a year. I've never seen a train arrive or depart from that yard.

Does anyone know what the yard is called, and if the wagons are officially withdrawn please?

That's Whitehall Yard..I believe that they're redundant EWS/DBC coal hoppers.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah, redundant and I suspect withdrawn HTA coal hoppers, without work now that the power station coal flows are a thing of the past, and EWS/DBC lost a lot of that declining traffic to Freightliner and GBRf over the past decade or two anyway.

Seems strange to me to see them in such dilapidated condition there now, when I remember them bright and shiny and new, initially in, I think, rakes of about 18 wagons before they were upped to 20.

 

[Geeves]

They were previously in store in the yard next to Neville Hill but that's closed now so it seems DB has just found locations here there and everywhere. There's around 20 of them in the sidings on the way into Manchester Victoria and various other places.

 

[edwin_m]

Some coal hoppers have been converted to aggregate wagons, requiring "cut and shut" of the body to optimise it for a higher density cargo. So they may be in store in case the need arises for more of those.

 

[Spartacus]

Yeah, redundant and I suspect withdrawn HTA coal hoppers, without work now that the power station coal flows are a thing of the past, and EWS/DBC lost a lot of that declining traffic to Freightliner and GBRf over the past decade or two anyway.

Seems strange to me to see them in such dilapidated condition there now, when I remember them bright and shiny and new, initially in, I think, rakes of about 18 wagons before they were upped to 20.

18, then 20, 21, 23 and occasionally 42

They were always notoriously hard on the track, being trackside as a train of loaded ones passed where there was a bit of a fault they were quite visibly worse than GBRf or Freightliner ones carrying similar loads.

 

[edwin_m]

18, then 20, 21, 23 and occasionally 42

They were always notoriously hard on the track, being trackside as a train of loaded ones passed where there was a bit of a fault they were quite visibly worse than GBRf or Freightliner ones carrying similar loads.

EWS placed large orders of several wagon types immediately after privatisation, which ran on some fairly crude bogie designs derived from ones that ran on the much heavier track in America. Wagons for other operators used more typical European designs or indeed bogies specifically designed for low track forces.

 

[_toommm_]

Thank you all, very interesting.

 

[sprinterguy]

18, then 20, 21, 23 and occasionally 42

Yeah, I remember the double headed 'Jumbo' trains north from York and over the Tyne Valley line.

 

[class 9]

The location is Whitehall Road goods yard.

 

[Spartacus]

Yeah, I remember the double headed 'Jumbo' trains north from York and over the Tyne Valley line.

So do I, I did the timings for them! EWS were keen on expanding them and I had three extra return paths worked out, Gas Wood - Carlisle, but for whatever when DB took them over they weren't keen on them and they ceased.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Next to Leeds West Junction, there's 10-20 red wagons, possibly coal hoppers, that have been extant for at least a year. I've never seen a train arrive or depart from that yard.

Does anyone know what the yard is called, and if the wagons are officially withdrawn please?

The 11 HTA wagons at Leeds Whitehall Road were last used by GBRF on the Ratcliffe coal traffic (which ended last summer). By the time it ended there was just one set of HTAs in use, but before that there had been more HTAs in traffic with GBRF (they were never repainted from EWS maroon and many of them still had the old EWS branding visible).

Whitehall Road had previously been used by GBRF for a flow of commercial spoil (waste soil) to Roxby Gullet, but I think that ended at the end of 2023 or in early 2024.

There was a 4D18 Peterborough Yard - Leeds Whitehall Road HTA move on 29th March 2024.
Later in the year on 3rd October there was a 6D20 Whitehall Road to Doncaster Down Decoy HTA move, which continued to Shirebrook (WH Davis) as a 6N64.
This had 16 wagons on it (which are still at Shirebrook) and I think that left Whitehall Road clear of wagons for a few weeks.

After the Ratcliffe coal ended in the summer, there were various movements of HTAs by GBRF, one of which was a 6D18 Doncaster Down Decoy to Leeds Whitehall Road on 29/11/24 which brought the 11 wagons which are still there today. I think these are officially "stored" rather than withdrawn.

The quote below is from the "2024 wagon review of the year" in the "wagon fleet news and discussion" thread, and details some of the HTA moves by GBRF after the Ratcliffe coal workings finished at the end of June:

This is how the sidings at Barnetby looked on 24th July, with the now redundant Ratcliffe HTA set stabled (24 wagons) plus 9 more assorted HTA:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnfrombedford/53899288275/

66787 ran light from Doncaster to Barnetby on 30th July and worked a 4M59 14:28 Barnetby to Collyhurst sidings with 18 HTAs, pictured here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tramsntrains/53892004959/
The same loco collected another 11 HTAs the following day, and also moved them to Collyhurst as a 4M59. This left 4 HTAs at Barnetby (which were still there at the end of 2024).

18 of the HTAs at Collyhurst were moved back to Barnetby as 6Z37 on 20/09/24. These 18 subsequently moved on to Wrenthorpe (siding near Wakefield Westgate) on New Year's Eve as 4Z66 behind 66789.

The remaining 11 HTAs at Collyhurst moved to Doncaster Down Decoy as 4Z52 on 28/11/24, then on to Leeds Whitehall Road for further storage next day as 6D18 on 29/11/24.

Some HTA moves this year which update the post above:

The 18 HTA wagons that moved to Wrenthorpe siding (Wakefield) on New Years Eve were moved to Barnetby as a 4Z57 on 4th Feb 2025.
The 4 HTAs which had been left at Barnetby were attached, and the 22 wagons moved to Doncaster Down Decoy as 4Z58 later the same day.

These 22 wagons were split into two portions, and moved as two separate trains of 11 wagons each to Collyhurst (sidings near Manchester Victoria).
The first train of 11 wagons also ran on 4th Feb and is pictured here behind 66789: https://www.flickr.com/photos/leeharrop78/54307022421/ (Photo: Lee Harrop)
A second train of 11 HTAs also ran as a 6M59 to Collyhurst the following day, which explains the 22 wagons currently at Collyhurst mentioned here:

They were previously in store in the yard next to Neville Hill but that's closed now so it seems DB has just found locations here there and everywhere. There's around 20 of them in the sidings on the way into Manchester Victoria and various other places.

The 22 HTA wagons at Collyhurst were in use with GBRF - in total there's about 70-odd of the GBRF HTAs stored mainly at Collyhurst / Leeds Whitehall Road / Stoke Cockshute Sidings / Shirebrook / Doncaster. I think those are being kept in storage for the time being, for potential re-use such as conversion to aggregate hoppers for example, as mentioned in post #5 (although I wouldn't be surprised if they go for scrap eventually).

Collyhurst seems an unlikely location to store HTAs, but like Whitehall Road it was previously used by GBRF for a flow of commercial spoil to Roxby. If GBRF were leasing these sites for the spoil traffic, it might have made them a convenient place for wagon storage after the spoil traffic stopped.

I think the DB wagons that were in storage at Neville Hill mainly ended up being moved to Tees Yard for further storage, and a few of the HTAs at Tees have been sent to Rotherham Masborough (Booths) for scrap.

DB are still using HTAs on the Scunthorpe steelworks coal and coke flows, plus the Immingham to Earles coal circuit. DB have some HTA wagons in store in case they are needed again, but I think most of the DB ones dumped at places like Tees are awaiting disposal.

It doesn't seem that long ago when they were building the HTAs (over a thousand of them!) to replace the MGR hoppers on power station coal...

 

[Teaboy1]

Screen dump taken from GOOGLE MAPS, dont know when this image was taken but image date is today 28 June 2025. Clearly shows total of 16 wagons at Whitehall Road Goods yard date not sure ?? Just for clarity other satalites are available.

 

[Adrian Barr]

That's interesting, I think that imagery must be from mid-2024. With 16 HTAs visible it suggests that all 16 arrived together on the 4D18 from Peterborough on 29/03/24, and departed together as 6D20 on 03/10/24 (before the current 11 wagons arrived there on 29/11/24). Although the copyright date for the imagery says 2025, I think it gives the current year regardless of when it was taken. When I look at this location on google maps it shows a solitary GBRF box wagon in the sidings loaded with what appears to be aggregate - possibly detached there from a passing service due to a wheel defect or something like that. I think the date of the imagery can change depending whether you are looking at the 2D or 3D version of google maps; the imagery with the box wagon is probably older than the view with the HTAs, but still has "imagery copyright 2025" on it.

The spoil trains at Whitehall Road were generally loaded at night, so I don't think they would have been seen very often from passing trains. A Baker Atlas from 1990 shows Whitehall Road as an "S&T Depot" (Signalling and Telecommunications) which is a department that generated little rail traffic, but possibly tampers e.t.c. were stabled there after it closed as a goods depot. I did find one picture on Flickr from 1962 which shows the lines entering Whitehall Road goods yard, giving an idea of what the location looked like in steam days when it was in use as a traditional goods depot:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/5942841606 (Photo: Peter Rose / jsb303)

 

[JKF]

Pretty sure that was the location of the temporary Leeds Whitehall station used when the main station was undergoing a major refurbishment circa 2001.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Pretty sure that was the location of the temporary Leeds Whitehall station used when the main station was undergoing a major refurbishment circa 2001.

I'd forgotten about that temporary station, it was on the curve.

Leeds Whitehall station, looking towards Whitehall Junction in Feb 2002, not long before the temporary station closed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/49237594672/ (Photo: Keith Long)
Leeds Whitehall station, looking towards Engine Shed Junction on the same day: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/49236899498/ (Photo: Keith Long)

The Quail map for 1988 shows access to Whitehall Road Goods Depot from Engine Shed Jn to a headshunt alongside the line to Huddersfield, with a fan of 10 sidings stop-blocked at the same end as the two sidings which are still there.

 

[D1537]

When was that Google image taken? I went past there yesterday and I was sure that the wagons went right up to the top of the sidings (where the gate is). Could have been mistaken of course, but I remember noticing that the gate had a "wear your hard hat!" poster stuck to it.

 

[Adrian Barr]

When was that Google image taken?

I think it must have been during 2024 when there were 16 wagons in there, which were taken away in early October and replaced a few weeks later by a different set of 11 HTAs which arrived in late November...

 

[D1537]

I think it must have been during 2024 when there were 16 wagons in there, which were taken away in early October and replaced a few weeks later by a different set of 11 HTAs which arrived in late November...

Ah right, that makes sense. I was sure they were in a string of more than eight!

 

[Earle Grey]

View attachment 182780
Screen dump taken from GOOGLE MAPS, dont know when this image was taken but image date is today 28 June 2025. Clearly shows total of 16 wagons at Whitehall Road Goods yard date not sure ?? Just for clarity other satalites are available.

If you go down on the ground onto Springwell Road the Google Car drove past the end of the road last in June 2024, which would seems to tally with the overhead shot, There are further historic shots from June 2023, July 2022, November 2020, July 2019 (All with no wagons visible) and July 2017 back to August 2008; when there was no yard present!

Springwell Road

The spoil trains at Whitehall Road were generally loaded at night, so I don't think they would have been seen very often from passing trains.

No paths during the day as yard feeds from/to the Up Huddersfield, due to pattern of service. Night time was the only time available. Normal method of operation was to arrive from Stourton/Engine Shed direction, stand and propel back into the yard, split train, draw forward and then back in again onto other road. Same process departing. I think it was roughly 30 minutes before actually arriving in yard / departing from and onto Up Doncaster for Roxby. Same wagons flow as from Collyhurst IIRC.