CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[AJDesiro]

How long have the 197s been going to Birmingham?

Around February this year, maybe late January.

 

[tfw756rider]

I’d say the interior noise inside a 197 when the air conditioning is on is far louder than a 158. It’s quite a distracting hum.

What's this ambience you speak of then?

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When it works ... my success rate for functional air con on 197s is probably well below 50%!

Really? It seems to have worked fine on most I've been on.

 

[craigybagel]

Are new TfW drivers still being trained on 150s, 153s and 158s obviously apart from North Wales and Chester which no longer sign 150s and 153s? Unless Chester still sign 153s? Also, does anyone know when a 150 or 153 last ran up the North Wales coast ?

There hasn't really been many new TfW drivers for the last few months. Pretty much every depot in the North is over establishment at the moment, and I believe it's similar in the South. Chester/North Wales coast depots lost both 150s and 153s a while ago, but there's still regular work on 158s on Holyhead - Birmingham services for now.

 

[tfw756rider]

How long have the 197s been going to Birmingham?

Around February this year, maybe late January.

It was February 2025. On the 17/2/25, 197124 did 1I10 0722 Holyhead to Birmingham International and 1J15 1208 Birmingham International to "Aberystwyth and Pwllheli" (change to 158s at Shrewsbury).

This was preceded by a 7-car test run from Shrewsbury to Birmingham and back on the 14/1/25, which was formed of 197033+197047+197123.

If you'd like to know more, just let me know

 

[1D54]

I think you've told me everything i need to know, surprised I've not seen any on my numerous trips to New Street.. Thanks for all the information and thanks also to AJ Desiro.

 

[tfw756rider]

I think you've told me everything i need to know, surprised I've not seen any on my numerous trips to New Street.. Thanks for all the information and thanks also to AJ Desiro.

You're welcome

 

[158822]

Thanks @Welshguy1048 and @craigybagel

 

[Belperpete]

I like the 197s very much (despite their flaws), as I like the way they look, and the way they sound with their "172-style" engine/gearbox setup of MTU 1800 Series and 6-speed ZF, going up and down the gears (indeed, and I'm not sure if anyone else realises this, but when the 77th 197 enters service, it will also be the 200th 6-speed ZF Diesel Multiple Unit - 172/195/196/197 - to enter service in Britain).

I am however intrigued - what it is that you think makes the ambience in a 197 far superior to that in a 158? The air conditioning obviously works better, but what else? Just everything being newer / less used (even compared to a refurbished "Welsh" 158) or what?

Personally I couldn't care less what a train looks like. And as for how they sound, ideally they should be dead quiet. The most important thing for me is how comfortable they are to travel in. The ideal would be a train that I can gently doze off in. And no way is anyone going to doze off in a 197.

Most important is the seats. The seats in a 197 look and feel much more comfortable and luxurious than those in a 158, which look and feel cheap and nasty. The leather effect material, for example. And the headrest is a distinct improvement. I was very impressed, until the train started moving and doing its impression of a demented massage chair.

 

[AJDesiro]

I think you've told me everything i need to know, surprised I've not seen any on my numerous trips to New Street.. Thanks for all the information and thanks also to AJ Desiro.

No worries, they're not a very common sight on the Birmingham services, some days there are none at all, it's generally just to substitute for a 158.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think you've told me everything i need to know, surprised I've not seen any on my numerous trips to New Street.. Thanks for all the information and thanks also to AJ Desiro.

No worries, they're not a very common sight on the Birmingham services, some days there are none at all, it's generally just to substitute for a 158.

There is a weekday diagram for a pair of 197s on that line now. It does the 09:08 and the 18:09 departures from Birmingham International. Not sure about weekends.

 

[AJDesiro]

There is a weekday diagram for a pair of 197s on that line now. It does the 09:08 and the 18:09 departures from Birmingham International. Not sure about weekends.

Ah, I stand corrected, it's been a good few weeks since I went down to Birmingham (which is highly unusual for me!)

 

[nigelsporne]

There isn't a regular weekend diagram as far as I am aware however there have been units on the late Sunday evening on occasions. The diagram is usually a pair of two car units but other combinations turn up.

 

[wythallpaul]

According to my notes, the last day that there was not a Cl197 in New Street was Friday 16th May. There has been at least 1 every day since then, that's 34 consecutive days including today. 2 Sunday evening diagrams are pretty solid, usually a 2-Car on 1I24/1J35 & a 3-Car on 1I26/1D33.
All the Non-Cambrian 2-Cars have worked to NS apart from 197014 & 197048. Cambrian 2-Cars that have worked to NS are 197022, 197024, 197029 & 197035.
All the Serviceable 3-Cars have worked to NS apart from 197114 & 197120. (197101 & 197110 have not been in service since they started coming to NS on 17th February).
I may have missed the odd working here & there.

 

[Bikeman78]

@158822

Hi

The last video i have got on my YouTube channel of a 150 running up the coast is 30th December 2023.

The last video i have of a 153 was 18th May 2023.

Dave

They definitely ran more recently than that. 150231 went to Blaenau in March 2024. Around 20 different class 150s made it to Holyhead in 2024. I think it was May 2024 that they stopped running west of Chester.

 

[Jez]

They definitely ran more recently than that. 150231 went to Blaenau in March 2024. Around 20 different class 150s made it to Holyhead in 2024. I think it was May 2024 that they stopped running west of Chester.

Yes id say over a year now since any 150s or 153s went West of Chester. I think a 150 did go to Chester on either a Birmingham or Cardiff some time this year but im not aware any since then. Obviously 150/153s all still go to Crewe due to the work on the HOWL/Crewe Local and that pair recently run to Manchester on a Sunday. Dont think a 153 has been to Manchester or Chester for a long while however.

Crazy that Blaenau has a 150 as late as March 2024 when they were the first route to switch to 197s in Nov 2022 (although did briefly switch back to a Sprinter for a few months from Dec 2022)

 

[158822]

I think the late evening service from Cardiff to Crewe ran through Chester a couple of months ago and that was a 150 until May timetable change

 

[cheekybifta]

197109 looks to have failed at Flint this evening and is now blocking the line towards Holyhead, with an Avanti service stuck behind it at Shotton and a 158 for Holyhead held at Chester.

I think the bi-directional signalling on this section was used fairy recently when a medical emergency on a train blocked one platform for an hour or two.

Realtime Trains | 1T32 1805 Newton-le-Willows to Flint | 23/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 1T32 1805 departure from Newton-le-Willows to Flint on 23/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Update: seems to have limped over to Mostyn sidings after less than an hour

 

[animationmilo]

197109 looks to have failed at Flint this evening and is now blocking the line towards Holyhead, with an Avanti service stuck behind it at Shotton and a 158 for Holyhead held at Chester.

I think the bi-directional signalling on this section was used fairy recently when a medical emergency on a train blocked one platform for an hour or two.

Realtime Trains | 1T32 1805 Newton-le-Willows to Flint | 23/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 1T32 1805 departure from Newton-le-Willows to Flint on 23/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Update: seems to have limped over to Mostyn sidings after less than an hour

Was sure that set failed at Leominster last September around the 3rd

 

[A7rud]

Can anyone please tell me how many 197s are currently stored at Holyhead, and if you can get close enough to ID them?

 

[SeaKing]

Can anyone please tell me how many 197s are currently stored at Holyhead, and if you can get close enough to ID them?

As of last Tuesday 9 I was able to id 8 from the bridge & road, Keith

 

[A7rud]

Very helpful Keith. Thanks a lot.

 

[Chorley Cake]

As of last Tuesday 9 I was able to id 8 from the bridge & road, Keith

Which ones were there ?

 

[VicH]

From footbridge (left to Right)
197028,030,034
197033,031
197003,036,027

 

[SeaKing]

From footbridge (left to Right)
197028,030,034
197033,031
197003,036,027

& 29 was the other side of the bridge.

 

[tfw756rider]

From footbridge (left to Right)
197028,030,034
197033,031
197003,036,027

That's the nicest "just a photo of stored units" photo I've ever seen.

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From footbridge (left to Right)
197028,030,034
197033,031
197003,036,027

& 29 was the other side of the bridge.

Many thanks both for the info.

Status of the 21 ETCS-fitted 197s as of 28/6/25:

197003 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197022 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197023 - ???
197024 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197025 - not yet delivered as of 28/6/25
197026 - ???
197027 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 (not yet entered service)
197028 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197029 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197030 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197031 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197032 - ???
197033 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197034 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197035 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197036 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 (not yet entered service)
197037 - ???
197038 - at Crewe depot as of 28/6/25 (not yet entered service)
197039 - not yet delivered as of 28/6/25
197040 - not yet delivered as of 28/6/25
197041 - not yet delivered as of 28/6/25

Mentioning @Peter Sarf of course!

Can anyone help fill in the blanks / ???s please, such as @sd0733 and @Jacob Porrett?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

That's the nicest "just a photo of stored units" photo I've ever seen.

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Many thanks both for the info.

Status of the 21 ETCS-fitted 197s as of 28/6/25:

197003 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197022 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197023 - ???
197024 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197025 - ???
197026 - ???
197027 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 (not yet entered service)
197028 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197029 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197030 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197031 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197032 - ???
197033 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197034 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 after having been in service
197035 - currently in use as of 28/6/25
197036 - stored at Holyhead as of 28/6/25 (not yet entered service)
197037 - ???
197038 - ???
197039 - ???
197040 - ???
197041 - ???

Mentioning @Peter Sarf of course!

Can anyone help fill in the blanks / ???s please, such as @sd0733 and @Jacob Porrett?

197038 is currently at Crewe depot. It's been there two weeks now after arriving from Donnington RFT.

 

[SeaKing]

197038 is currently at Crewe depot. It's been there two weeks now after arriving from Donnington RFT.

25 & 39-41 still to be delivered. There are at least 3 in Crewe Carriage Sidings one of which is 26

 

[tfw756rider]

197038 is currently at Crewe depot. It's been there two weeks now after arriving from Donnington RFT.

25 & 39-41 still to be delivered. There are at least 3 in Crewe Carriage Sidings one of which is 26

Many thanks both

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@Jacob Porrett and/or @SeaKing, would it be 4x 197s (197023/026/032/037) in Crewe Carriage Sidings? (Those are now the only 4 units left in the list with ???s)

Other than those, the list has been updated @Peter Sarf

 

[Jez]

Ive noticed a few 150s and 158s covering the last few days. Anyone know how many 197s were in service on Friday/Saturday against their booked diagrams?

I am aware that 197s have been covering for MK4's as well. Yesterday a 2 car 197 was covering for a MK4. Reported on Journey Planner as 2 car in lieu of 5 with no first class and reduced catering. But top it all it was terminated short at Crewe!

 

[craigybagel]

I am aware that 197s have been covering for MK4's as well. Yesterday a 2 car 197 was covering for a MK4. Reported on Journey Planner as 2 car in lieu of 5 with no first class and reduced catering. But top it all it was terminated short at Crewe!

For what it's worth, it terminated at Crewe in order to get a rake of MKIVs back in service on that diagram, and to get the 197 coupled to the diagram an hour behind. Not ideal, but probably better overall than leaving it in service.