BR Class 325 - The Post Trains

[GNER 373]

Was just reminising with a friend about Tyne Yard and the kinds of stock that was seen regularly there during the 90's when I suddenly remembered these Class 325 EMU's that were a common site.

After looking at Wikipedia it seems theres only a few sets running on the WCML.

Does anyone have any recent shots or news on them? Are they still in the Royal Mail Red? Are they a regular sight anywhere?

Thanks for any responses

 

[driver9000]

They are out pretty much daily running Sheildmuir-Willesdon. They are still in Royal Mail colours and sometimes run 3 sets coupled together.

 

[mallard]

Since Wikipedia says "The units were built in such a way that they could easily be converted for passenger use if no longer required for mail services."

How about they actually do this? There are apparently 16 of them, a few more than required, surely? Since they are apparently very similar to 319s, they'd probably be useful for the Thames Valley/North West electrification schemes...

 

[tbtc]

Since Wikipedia says "The units were built in such a way that they could easily be converted for passenger use if no longer required for mail services."

How about they actually do this? There are apparently 16 of them, a few more than required, surely? Since they are apparently very similar to 319s, they'd probably be useful for the Thames Valley/North West electrification schemes...

Thats a good point, must be cheaper than a newbuild?

 

[jopsuk]

But they're required for mail services... the ones that aren't are, as far as I know, unservicable and used for spares.

 

[sprinterguy]

The 325 fleet is still quite thoroughly used, so there's not really any scope for converting them to passenger use.

Fifteen of the units are operational, while 325010 is pretty thoroughly knackered and out of service at (I think) Ilford, having been robbed of parts to keep the others in service. As driver9000 says, they are used in four, eight or twelve car formation on the Sheildmuir-Warrington-Willesden runs, so are a regular sight on the WCML.

 

[DarloRich]

Was just reminising with a friend about Tyne Yard and the kinds of stock that was seen regularly there during the 90's when I suddenly remembered these Class 325 EMU's that were a common site.

After looking at Wikipedia it seems theres only a few sets running on the WCML.

Does anyone have any recent shots or news on them? Are they still in the Royal Mail Red? Are they a regular sight anywhere?

Thanks for any responses

one goes past me, heading north, every night at Bletchley at about 1730. They take the Weedon route up the WCML. They look in fairly poor exterior condition to be honest
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 325 fleet is still quite thoroughly used, so there's not really any scope for converting them to passenger use.

Fifteen of the units are operational, while 325010 is pretty thoroughly knackered and out of service at (I think) Ilford, having been robbed of parts to keep the others in service. As driver9000 says, they are used in four, eight or twelve car formation on the Sheildmuir-Warrington-Willesden runs, so are a regular sight on the WCML.

there is one dumped in Doncaster Wood Yard - It seems to have bits missing

 

[sprinterguy]

one goes past me, heading north, every night at Bletchley at about 1730. They take the Weedon route up the WCML. They look in fairly poor exterior condition to be honest

That'll probably be 1S96 16:26 Willesden to Sheildmuir, which is one of the twelve carriage formations.

They definitely do look quite tatty externally now, but it can only be expected after a period of storage between the end of the EWS contract and the start of the GBRf one. They're still completely fit for purpose though, despite the faded paintwork. I can remember seeing pictures of them when they were being rolled out of works and thinking how bonny the Royal Mail red livery looked.

there is one dumped in Doncaster Wood Yard - It seems to have bits missing

Ah, that'll be 325010, though I thought it had been shifted to Ilford a couple of months back.

 

[cj_1985]

one thng to remember about these units...
they are NOT owned by DBS, GBRf or a ROSCO...

They are the property of Royal Mail Group...
and so are out with the control/meddling of DfT, TOCs and ROSCOs

They may have been built with the potential for future conversion to passenger spec...

but they are specialist railway rolling stock... and unless RMG decide to drastically increase the level of mail moved by rail... these are unlikely to be replaced with newer rail vehicles... and unless RMG decide to withdraw from using rail to move mail... the 325s will not be made available for conversion to passenger spec - if indeed they still retain "granfather rights" for conversion to passenger spec.

yes they look a bit tired, and are not washed as often as they perhaps should be... but they are still capable of doing the job that they were built for, and they are doing that job.

thats worth remembering before you decide to add the 325s to your little fantasy stock expansion for the Northern Franchise

 

[shedman]

Talking of the 325s, in the rule book it says to ignore the blue cant rail light if illuminated while in motion, what does the blue light mean?

 

[driver9000]

Talking of the 325s, in the rule book it says to ignore the blue cant rail light if illuminated while in motion, what does the blue light mean?

Apparently it means the roller shutter doors aren't locked. Then again I've heard several different meanings for them so I'm not sure which one to believe.

 

[shedman]

Oh right, thanks. I was thinking it might be to let staff which area is to be unloaded next (like back in the day when it was done at stations), if that makes sense?

 

[Phil6219]

They are very much in use, I was at Acton Bridge a few weeks ago and saw quite a few of them in 4, 8 & 12 car sets.

They feature a few times in this Freight Trains Video along with well other freight trains (92s and 90s as well as 66s).

They were even hauled by 86s last winter (or the winter before that).

I love the sound of the 325s at speed, they sound exactly like a 319 (for the obvious reason). Its also good to see them being used, perhaps they could bring the other one back into service using spares from the 319s?

 

[GNER 373]

Thanks for the replies chaps,

Its great to know they're still up and running abielt a bit 'scruffy' and good to know they'll remain mail trains as long as RMG keep that side of the business up and running. Enjoyed the vid too, thanks!

Anyone have any pics? I seem to have lost mine from my older collections!

 

[b0b]

. Its also good to see them being used, perhaps they could bring the other one back into service using spares from the 319s?

probably more like the 325 being a donor as the 319s are intensively used right now.

 

[150222]

There is a 325 cab at the NRM in york.

 

[NightatLaira]

I have very fond memories of these running through York in the early 00s - it was so unusual to hear an EMU in York. They do have a very good sound.

 

[Wiggler]

I regularly see the twelve car set going north through Stafford in the evenings

 

[33056]

Ah yes, 325s see them all the time

A few observations:
010 was at Wembley, then taken by road to Ilford then went to Doncaster where I believe it still resides.

In the last month I have seen all the others working apart from 009.

There are currently two trains each way a day between Willesden and Warrington (0640 and 1640 off Willesden, 1700 and 1932 off Warrington) one eight car and one 12 car, but I am not very au fait with the workings north of Warrington.

Some 325 photos on our website , can't provide exact link right now but should find them if you type 325 in the seach facility.

 

[DarloRich]

Ah yes, 325s see them all the time

A few observations:
010 was at Wembley, then taken by road to Ilford then went to Doncaster where I believe it still resides.

In the last month I have seen all the others working apart from 009.

There are currently two trains each way a day between Willesden and Warrington (0640 and 1640 off Willesden, 1700 and 1932 off Warrington) one eight car and one 12 car, but I am not very au fait with the workings north of Warrington.

Some 325 photos on our website , can't provide exact link right now but should find them if you type 325 in the seach facility.

But you are only going to see them if, lioke me you live somewhere on the WCML. I had not seen one for years until i moved down here .

They night be in poor nick on the outside but the interior gubbins seem to work well!

 

[GNER 373]

Ah yes, 325s see them all the time

A few observations:
010 was at Wembley, then taken by road to Ilford then went to Doncaster where I believe it still resides.

In the last month I have seen all the others working apart from 009.

There are currently two trains each way a day between Willesden and Warrington (0640 and 1640 off Willesden, 1700 and 1932 off Warrington) one eight car and one 12 car, but I am not very au fait with the workings north of Warrington.

Some 325 photos on our website , can't provide exact link right now but should find them if you type 325 in the seach facility.

Great pics there, love 010 on the low loader, great shots. Some of them look clean too!

It's a shame they are that far away from me now, but I'm sure on my jaunts over to the west coast, I may try and catch one or two passing by! Thanks

 

[DarloRich]

010 still ives at Doncaster - looking a bit forlorn really

 

[sprinterguy]

Apparently it means the roller shutter doors aren't locked. Then again I've heard several different meanings for them so I'm not sure which one to believe.

Yes you're correct it's to denote that the roller shutter doors are unlocked, I spent a night shifting York cages off and on them at Warrington a couple of months back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a 325 cab at the NRM in york.

I've cabbed a real one!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ah yes, 325s see them all the time

A few observations:
010 was at Wembley, then taken by road to Ilford then went to Doncaster where I believe it still resides.

In the last month I have seen all the others working apart from 009.

There are currently two trains each way a day between Willesden and Warrington (0640 and 1640 off Willesden, 1700 and 1932 off Warrington) one eight car and one 12 car, but I am not very au fait with the workings north of Warrington.

Thanks very much for the additional information, which has helped to jog my memory of the workings of the trains. If I remember correctly, there are 325s at Warrington RDC at...:

09:45ish 1S00 06:40 Willesden to Sheildmuir 8 car
16:45-17:00 ?? : ?? Sheildmuir to Willesden 8 car
19:09-19:30 15:31 Sheildmuir to Willesden 12 car Runs as 1M44 as far as Warrington, then as 1A97 to Willesden
19:46-20:02 16:40 Willesden to Sheildmuir 12 car Runs as 1S96
Arrive 20:20 17:50 Sheildmuir to Warrington 4 car Runs as 1M03
The same unit then departs as 23:30 Warrington to Sheildmuir running as 1S55

That's working from some fairly rough notes I took when I was at the RDC though, so apologies if any of that is erroneous.

 

[Hydro]

A far cry from the heydays of mail and TPO trains though. The 325's used to make it down to Tonbridge before the mail platform was closed at the depot.

It's criminal how mail was taken off the railways, but I gather EWS at the time were just not giving good prices to the Royal Mail. I think the fact that the 325s are RM owned (rather than the RES stock, which passed to EWS) helped the 325 flows stay in a limited capacity.

 

[sprinterguy]

A far cry from the heydays of mail and TPO trains though. The 325's used to make it down to Tonbridge before the mail platform was closed at the depot.

It's criminal how mail was taken off the railways, but I gather EWS at the time were just not giving good prices to the Royal Mail. I think the fact that the 325s are RM owned (rather than the RES stock, which passed to EWS) helped the 325 flows stay in a limited capacity.

Yeah it's a poor comparison to the heyday of mail on rail, ten or more years ago. Warrington RDC, as a comparison against the current trains it sees, used to witness the loading and unloading of 20 mail trains and four TPOs each day.

To be frank though, the mark 1 vans that were in use at the time were probably coming up to the end of their operational lives and would have needed replacement with new stock, so I think the widespread withdrawal of mail trains, as regrettable as it was, would have been inevitable within a couple of years of when it actually did occur.

 

[DarloRich]

Yeah it's a poor comparison to the heyday of mail on rail, ten or more years ago. Warrington RDC, as a comparison against the current trains it sees, used to witness the loading and unloading of 20 mail trains and four TPOs each day.

To be frank though, the mark 1 vans that were in use at the time were probably coming up to the end of their operational lives and would have needed replacement with new stock, so I think the widespread withdrawal of mail trains, as regrettable as it was, would have been inevitable within a couple of years of when it actually did occur.

but there was then plenty of redundant stock that could have been converted. All those MkII? It is criminal that so much mail is trucked about the country rather than sent by rail.

I also think the contract was lost around the time that there were a lot of line closures for upgrade works ( I was out of touch with railways at that time) and RM felt they couldn’t guarantee deliveries if trains were stopped short or diverted. Quite amusing considering they cant even deliver a first class service within 24 hours today!

I would love to see more mail back on the railways – but it wont happen without a massive investment and the government incentivising RM

 

[cj_1985]

Yes you're correct it's to denote that the roller shutter doors are unlocked, I spent a night shifting York cages off and on them at Warrington a couple of months back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've cabbed a real one! .

your ain't the only one

they are exceptional units... both technically and operationally

obviously its sad that they dont get to work some of the trains that they used to ie. south of the thames or on the ECML except at christmas pressure periods or when weather restricts road and/or air services...

it will probably have set RM back a lot more £££ than if they had just gone for a straight AC unit rather than dual voltage... but at the time there was work for them, to justify the extra expense.

Although looking back with hind sight... its a good thing that RM specified the units to have drop-head buck-eye coupling and buffers... since as we all saw after GBRf took over mail by rail operations, the 325s were not exactly in great condition after being "abandoned" between the end of the EWS contract.. and the start of the GBRf contract, requiring almost daily dragging by electric or diesel locos

not to mention the one off trip with a 325 hauled by a class 47 up to aberdeen in (iirc) 2005 due to road traffic related to a G8 Conference.

 

[33056]

But you are only going to see them if, lioke me you live somewhere on the WCML. I had not seen one for years until i moved down here

I am lucky enough (or not!) to live, travel and work on the WCML and also fortunate enough to remember Willesden Railnet when it was running as it originally intended; it is quite depressing to see things as they are now.

Great pics there, love 010 on the low loader, great shots. Some of them look clean too!

Thanks, Just found a couple more from GBRf days with 87006 and 87019 also here is a "real" mail train on the ECML for you

ISTR the odd trip to Low Fell happening over Christmas last year though think that most of them were hauled due to traction knowledge issues. Might be lucky enough to have a couple more this year though I think that the reason for them running was the bad weather stopping the planes so perhaps ought to be careful what we wish for

 

[jopsuk]

The TPOs wouldn't fit with the modern system of large centralised sorting offices, but there really should be more of a place for taking the articulated RM trucks off the roads. At one time there were converted and/or specially built one and two car MUs, both EMU (3rd rail) and DMU that could run either on their own or even coupled to a passenger formation. With creative thinking and auto couplers surely there could be a place for these again, running at night and outside the peaks.

 

[cj_1985]

The TPOs wouldn't fit with the modern system of large centralised sorting offices, but there really should be more of a place for taking the articulated RM trucks off the roads. At one time there were converted and/or specially built one and two car MUs, both EMU (3rd rail) and DMU that could run either on their own or even coupled to a passenger formation. With creative thinking and auto couplers surely there could be a place for these again, running at night and outside the peaks.

but what sorts of trains generally run at night... apart from freight, infrastructure and RHTT or De-icing trains (at the relevant times of year)

the only ones that come to mind are the scotrail sleeper... the Night Riviera, a few thameslink services and a few TPEx services...


its not as simple as saying that you could couple a suitable RM spec DMU to a passenger train... because then you have to have a driver for both the passenger and the mail segments if they are going to different destinations... not forgetting shunter/s to couple and uncouple the units

and if you go back to using mainline terminii to transport the mail to... you then have to take into account the extra vehicles running in and out of town from the station/s to the local mail centres and delivery offices...

in the case of using the sleepers... the departure time and arrival time at either end probably wont fit in with the requirement to get the mail sorted at the Mail centre and dispatched to the local delivery office before the cut off...
or to allow enough mail to be sorted for dispatch and loading onto a train prior to departure